The Brexit aftermath thread

[Dizzeeyooo]

yet the evidence shows that this is very clearly not the case

What evidence would that be?

That's also pandering to a very large segment, possibly a majority, of Tory party members.

Fixed, and sure - but those two groups are basically the same thing at this point, with the Conservative party turning into UKIPlite.

[Pann]

That's also pandering to a very large segment, possibly a majority, of Tory voters.

She's pandered to the ERG in terms of stopping the Con party from splitting but in terms of the WA absolutely not as witnessed by the fact they've voted against it twice.

[Skroe]

We should just make England the 51st state and let the other countries remain in the EU.

Do we really want to import the shitshow that is the current composition of Parliament?

Don't we have enough problems?

I mean Trump is a fucking disaster and an embarrassment, but he's a day at the beach compared to Brexit.

[Dizzeeyooo]

but in terms of the WA absolutely not as witnessed by the fact they've voted against it twice.

As has already been explained - once you have to write things down on paper, the ERG will always oppose what you do, because they want a Brexit that does not exist and you obviously can't write something that does not exist down on paper (though the idiotic Malthouse compromise does come relatively close).

You seem to think that two years consistent pandering and then a few months reality check means "she has not pandered to the ERG", and I'm really not sure why?

[Pann]

So if the ERG feel ignored and every other Conservative politician feels ignored then where does that leave us on judging May?

Personally I think Labour (don't worry, there is a caveat here) could of been won over and the Lib Dems and the rest would of gone along with a Brexit deal without the Red Lines.

Now to elaborate on where I think we differ on Labour. She was never winning over Corbyn and the front bench but the PLP itself could have been very easy to woo, using Corbyn's tacit approval of Hard Brexit as an opportunity to undermine and ultimately oust Corbyn as Cooper and the other moderates upped their profiles and approval by being the sensible MPs willing to put country before party and actually secure a Brexit deal.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying.

I'm not so sure. Lab had their own problems, in particular the PLP wanted rid of Corbyn, but once the election result came in and was much better than expected they just decided to keep their heads down and hope that the Tories would tear themselves apart. I don't think there is any way they would have gone against Corbyn and exposed their own divisions.

[Kallisto]

@Butler Log sorry to pick on you here but you have, perhaps inadvertently, hit on a big problem with the Brexit debate. You support remain and as a result claim that May is ignoring everyone but the ERG yet the evidence shows that this is very clearly not the case. Ironically if you go to leave dominated forums they will be complaining that she listens to no-one but the remain contingent in the Con party. There's no middle ground anymore and we end up with two extremes going at one another's throats as they feel if the other side is being treated better and they are being ignored whilst the majority are caught in between.

At this point I think she listens to no one but herself with her stompy feet screeching about how they must have her deal that is crap. No one likes and should have been burned on first death. Not risen as a zombie and now being pulled back up as a crimson head.

[downnola]

Do we really want to import the shitshow that is the current composition of Parliament?

Don't we have enough problems?

I mean Trump is a fucking disaster and an embarrassment, but he's a day at the beach compared to Brexit.

You can't abandon your parents when they get dementia and start shitting themselves in public. Sometimes you have to take them in and provide the care they need.

[Pann]

At this point I think she listens to no one but herself with her stompy feet screeching about how they must have her deal that is crap. No one likes and should have been burned on first death. Not risen as a zombie and now being pulled back up as a crimson head.

I don't like May and agree she doesn't listen but I'm left feeling what else could she do? I, also, agree that the deal is crap but, again, what else could she do? It's all well and good saying I don't like it but unless there is an alternative where we will end up is worse.

It seems to me that the majority of parliament has been happy to snipe from the sidelines but when the time comes to offer a solution, they snipe some more.

[Kronik85]

I'm not sure I get what you're saying.

I'm not so sure. Lab had their own problems, in particular the PLP wanted rid of Corbyn, but once the election result came in and was much better than expected they just decided to keep their heads down and hope that the Tories would tear themselves apart. I don't think there is any way they would have gone against Corbyn and exposed their own divisions.

I think TIG and Tom Watsons Future Britain Group are pretty strong indicators that the PLP are very frustrated with Corbyn (no shit right?). If May had offered them some opportunities to weaken his position by offering olive branches I think they would of taken it.

Still we are on hypotheticals here so....agree to disagree?

[Blur4stuff]

Seems like the most sensible thing to do is get EU to give extension for second vote where the choices are Stay vs Leave w/ specific deal(s).

[Twdft]

If only things were that simple. You can't just ignore voters because the result is unpalatable.

General elections mean people can change their mind every 5 years about who should govern them, I see no problem changing your mind after 2 1/2 years of the shitshow we all witness.

That said, I don't think remain would even win in a new referendum. If the people actually changed their mind about it, there would be mass demonstrations expressing this. News of such have not reached me here in germany.

[Slant]

MPs have voted to approve the Spelman/Dromey amendment. (which rejects no-deal at anytime)

Ayes: 312

Noes: 308

Majority: 4

Wow, that's a lot closer than I estimated. I would've bet money on a result as clear as yesterday. But my prediction still holds true. Wait for the approval of an extension request tomorrow. And on the EU's laughter echoing through Brussels on Friday when May actually asks for an extension without any clue on what to do with it.

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That is a huge result, and proves beyond any doubt that there is no appetite for no-deal. Dribbles can tick tock all he likes, this is one more nail in his coffin.

The automatism that is in place is no-deal. What the UK parliament votes for is irrelevant to the process until a time when they seriously consider revoking A50 altogether. I'm not sure stupid May is prepared to do that. But she should. Because if anything is clear, it's that the EU is absolutely not going to blink on this one.

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We elected donald trump as president. Don't count on the US doing jack or shit unless you are willing to pony up a lot of trumpgeld if an emergency comes up.

Neither Trump nor Brexit will change that the UK are essentially European, whether they like it or not. And they are family, whether they like it or not. Even if the UK turned nazi and started WW3, they would at some point in the future be welcomed back. Just like it happened with Germany. So, this little episode? It's just that, an episode. Exactly like Trump is just an episode. We are irritated by their antics. But we also know that it's only temporary. We're doing our bit to, kind of, keep the house from burning down, but later we'll keep defending the fort together.

Or, as I like to put it... I might fight with my brother over stupid bullshit once in a while, but if you want to pick a fight with him, you'll have to go through me first.

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Hmm,

Laura Kuenssberg
‏
@bbclaurak
MP s inside the voting lobbies report they've seen ministers abstaining - Cabinet ministers ignoring the whip

That's what happens when the Prime Minister says "Tomorrow's vote will be absolutely free" the evening before.

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I should copy some comments of Skroe, Slant and Nymrhod, so i can show them to Nexiters. Destroy that argument from those people straight away.

Who are Nexiters and what argument?

[Dizzeeyooo]

Who are Nexiters and what argument?

"Next Exiters" - people that think a super successful no deal Brexit will lead to multiple other EU countries also choosing to leave the EU.

[Slant]

I really hope Bercow tells her she can't bring it back because it's already been rejected twice.

Ironic how she wants the House to vote X times on the deal, but somehow asking for a second referendum is akin to treason in her book... fucking hypocrite.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Ironic how she wants the House to vote X times on the deal, but somehow asking for a second referendum is akin to treason in her book... fucking hypocrite.

No idea what you mean, it makes perfect sense that MPs are allowed to change their minds but the general public are not

[Slant]

"Next Exiters" - people that think a super successful no deal Brexit will lead to multiple other EU countries also choosing to leave the EU.

Ha, lol... that idea was even stupider than thinking the UK could dictate terms to the EU.

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No idea what you mean, it makes perfect sense that MPs are allowed to change their minds but the general public are not

Yes, probably because the general public is full of stupid people while the people in parliament are all smart, duh...

[Dizzeeyooo]

Yes, probably because the general public is full of stupid people while the people in parliament are all smart, duh...

Ab-sooooo-luteeeeeely

[Kronik85]

Neither Trump nor Brexit will change that the UK are essentially European, whether they like it or not. And they are family, whether they like it or not. Even if the UK turned nazi and started WW3, they would at some point in the future be welcomed back. Just like it happened with Germany. So, this little episode? It's just that, an episode. Exactly like Trump is just an episode. We are irritated by their antics. But we also know that it's only temporary. We're doing our bit to, kind of, keep the house from burning down, but later we'll keep defending the fort together.

Or, as I like to put it... I might fight with my brother over stupid bullshit once in a while, but if you want to pick a fight with him, you'll have to go through me first.

How dare you insinuate that we, as Brits are in anyway European! I think you will find that as descendents of Picts, Celts, Romans, Vikings, Saxons and Norman's that we have fuck all to do with Europe and never have! Equally if we turned Nazi and started WWIII then we wouldn't need you to accept us back because we would of won and you would be lucky to have us consider you slightly inferior on our totem pole of race.

Now you can take your good will and lovely long term sentiments and shove them where the sun doesn't shine! It's called Grimsby and we are very proud of it!

[Slant]

How dare you insinuate that we, as Brits are in anyway European! I think you will find that as descendents of Picts, Celts, Romans, Vikings, Saxons and Norman's that we have fuck all to do with Europe and never have! Equally if we turned Nazi and started WWIII then we wouldn't need you to accept us back because we would of won and you would be lucky to have us consider you slightly inferior on our totem pole of race.

Now you can take your good will and lovely long term sentiments and shove them where the sun doesn't shine! It's called Grimsby and we are very proud of it!

That's fine. I'm looking forward to dangling the heroic "Battle of Germany" over your head for decades, if not possibly centuries as the sole thing that defeated you in the end while the rest of the world facepalms and says "Yeah... that and the rest of the world bombing the shit out of them..."

[Deja Thoris]

Now you can take your good will and lovely long term sentiments and shove them where the sun doesn't shine! It's called Grimsby and we are very proud of it!

The first 4 letters of that places name describe it perfectly!