[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Huehuecoyotl]

Over 17 million people will thank him for acting so honourably and selflessly for that reason.

They will need some kind of seance to manage that. Statistically speaking, around 1m of those are dead already.

[Shalcker]

They will need some kind of seance to manage that. Statistically speaking, around 1m of those are dead already.

Maybe there is another million outraged at article 11/13/17 stuff.

[AeneasBK]

Maybe there is another million outraged at article 11/13/17 stuff.

Lol I don't think there's a million outraged over all of Europe.

[Northern Goblin]

Turns out some of the MEPs didn't know what they were voting for on Article 13 and want to vote again.

[ati87]

I have a question, because I don't live in the UK and the news don't really show any of the negotiations happening in the british parliment, but... Do we know what the Pro-brexit politicians want, or is it just "We don't like that deal, May. You are a failure, now make a deal we want!" without any input in what they want?

Well see it like this.

Every Pro-Brexit politician ran for the hill the day after Cameron resigned and non of them wanted anything to do with making sure the UK left the EU in a good fashion.

Than when May got in power she had some pretty strong anti EU cabinet members in relevant positions.
David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox

As far as I know all 3 of these had a really important positions in the this processes and are all anti EU so in the past 3 years they all had a chance to shape this processes in such a way that the Leave camp could accept.

Honestly I don't think they really care about May's deal that much or leaving the EU as it is now. Leaving the EU is secondary to there quest for becoming PM themselves. Don't forget though, reason why the UK is in a mess is because the British government was never prepared for anything. Ireland and the EU prepared for multiply scenario's and knew what they where doing at every step, EU just followed the processes. May and her goons ran on multiply fairytale level assumptions and instead of trying to work towards a solution that had broad support she just went further to the right.

[Northern Goblin]

So she can't bring the meaningful vote back a third time, so she's splitting the withdrawl agreement from the political declararion and bringing half a meaningful vote to the Commons tomorrow.

Except that wouldn't actually satisfy the requirements for leaving the EU.

Plus the DUP won't back it anyway, so it's dead on arrival and merely an indicator that we'll be requesting a longer Brexit extension, and as such be holding MEP elections

[Kronik85]

So she can't bring the meaningful vote back a third time, so she's splitting the withdrawl agreement from the political declararion and bringing half a meaningful vote to the Commons tomorrow.

Except that wouldn't actually satisfy the requirements for leaving the EU.

Plus the DUP won't back it anyway, so it's dead on arrival and merely an indicator that we'll be requesting a longer Brexit extension, and as such be holding MEP elections

It's on the BBC that the Govt actually expects it to fail but are looking to wittle the loss down from last time. Which seems like a bizarre fucking strategy since this is should be the last throw of the dice for it.

[Northern Goblin]

Plus I think this entire "trick" qualifies as proof of the UK acting in bad faith. The WA was given as an offer TOGETHER with the political declaration.

This isn't so much the UK acting in bad faith with the EU, but the PM and Government acting in bad faith with Parliament. Unsurprising though, they've already found to be in contempt once.

[Kronik85]

So this has given me some insight into the swivel eyed lunacy of the cult that is the ERG.

Brexiteer and Conservative MP Andrew Bridgen - who has twice voted against Mrs May's deal - said he does not think the withdrawal agreement will go through tomorrow.

"The fact that it's been separated from the political declaration is more dangerous," he said, speaking outside Parliament.

"The withdrawal agreement, without the political declaration, is a trap.

"There's almost no chance of getting out of the backstop ever without the political declaration being attached.

"It seems like a legal nightmare for the government to do this. If they've done it just to get round the speaker and make it a different vote, I think it may be counterproductive."

When asked about his hopes for the next party leader, Mr Bridgen added that he wanted a Brexiteer to take over the Brexit process.

He added: "Parliament is so fragile that I can't see us getting through the next six months without a general election. So what we need is a big name and an election winner to be heading up the party."

See I thought they were somewhere between uncaring and stupid, a dangerous mix of both. But reading that.....I mean they honestly think the EU is th monster in the closet.

[Slant]

Turns out some of the MEPs didn't know what they were voting for on Article 13 and want to vote again.

There is speculation that they're just using that as an excuse to exonerate their accountability. There doesn't seem to be a great urgency to re-vote on this, which is odd, if foul play was involved. So I'd be cautious with that bit of news for the moment. We'll have to see how it develops.

[Vermented]

See I thought they were somewhere between uncaring and stupid, a dangerous mix of both. But reading that.....I mean they honestly think the EU is th monster in the closet.

And they love to portrait themselves as victims of the EU.

[Kronik85]

I mean, it's true that you are not getting out of the backstop. You'll have to invent a new way to handle borders to do that. I guess everything is possible but we haven't seen any ideas yet on how it can be done.

It's more calling the WA a "trap". Which in turn implies that the Govt putting forward the WA without the PD is a conspiracy in order to keep the UK in the EU. This is David Ike level stuff at play here, the amount of people this would take in order for it to be true. It's fucking batshit.

[Odinfrost]

Well see it like this.

Every Pro-Brexit politician ran for the hill the day after Cameron resigned and non of them wanted anything to do with making sure the UK left the EU in a good fashion.

Than when May got in power she had some pretty strong anti EU cabinet members in relevant positions.
David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox

As far as I know all 3 of these had a really important positions in the this processes and are all anti EU so in the past 3 years they all had a chance to shape this processes in such a way that the Leave camp could accept.

Honestly I don't think they really care about May's deal that much or leaving the EU as it is now. Leaving the EU is secondary to there quest for becoming PM themselves. Don't forget though, reason why the UK is in a mess is because the British government was never prepared for anything. Ireland and the EU prepared for multiply scenario's and knew what they where doing at every step, EU just followed the processes. May and her goons ran on multiply fairytale level assumptions and instead of trying to work towards a solution that had broad support she just went further to the right.

So in other words, the pro-brexit politicians jumped ship before it even left the port, and the few that actually remains throws the leader under the bus in hopes of being elected the next PM, consequenses be damned?

[Kronik85]

And they love to portrait themselves as victims of the EU.

Well they are, alongside Alex Jones and those Q fellas.

[Shalcker]

Englands own Mp's are as much to blame for that article passing than anyone and anyone blaming the EU needs to get a reality check and stop sleeping in their own shit.

Well, it's not like people aren't already outraged at them.

That similar guys from other countries push EU-wide laws like that isn't exactly inspiring, however.

[Acidbaron]

So this has given me some insight into the swivel eyed lunacy of the cult that is the ERG.



See I thought they were somewhere between uncaring and stupid, a dangerous mix of both. But reading that.....I mean they honestly think the EU is th monster in the closet.

If a no deal happens or the trade negotiate afterwards they'll see how cold and calculated the EU is.

[Demolitia]

snip.

Happy Brexit liberation day!

[Dizzeeyooo]

Honestly I think they were trying to cut of the momentum for a CU or people's vote on Monday. If they can pass this or if at least they can show that May's Deal isn't that far off from those suggestions, it will be easier for May to dismiss them.

The vote today is a trap to get us to miss the April 12th EU council deadline - beyond that point, the choice will be May's deal vs no deal. Ideally it doesn't pass, but quite a few Labour MPs will probably end up bribed/threatened into voting for it, so might be very tight.

[dribbles]

Happy Brexit liberation day!

And the reason it isn't? Remainers do not accept democracy. This is on them.

But thanks for the sentiment, liberation day is coming, soon™

[Huehuecoyotl]

And the reason it isn't? Remainers do not accept democracy. This is on them.

But thanks for the sentiment, liberation day is coming, soon™

Leavers seem to believe that democracy is defined by a single action at a single point in time. Until you point out that we voted to join the EU first, at which point they believe that changed circumstances can lead to fresh votes.

Except for a change in circumstances after the vote they won, of course. That has to be ignored. For democratic reasons.

Leaver logic is a strange malleable thing.