[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Dizzeeyooo]

They have 94 MP's in the Bundestag, no comparison to UKIP, stop being disingenuous

Due to proportional representation in the German parliament vs FPTP in ours - their share of the vote is (or was) pretty much identical to UKIPs in the UK.

[Shalcker]

What Cameron asked was to remove Freedom of Movement. Which is the same thing the AfD asks for. So no, no one could have given them that and no one is going to give it to the AfD either.

We'll see how it plays out.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Leave tears on LBC are a joyous thing to listen to.

So much drama...

Labour gambling that by *finally* coming out in favour of BRINO the number of voters who will stick with them will be sufficient to oust a Tory party split down the middle. Still party politics, but at least I could live with the result: soft Brexit, Tories split, Labour government.

The question is to what ends will Maybot go to stop this. I heard a theory she'd bully the Queen into not giving royal assent.

[Flarelaine]

Leave tears on LBC are a joyous thing to listen to.

So much drama...

Labour gambling that by *finally* coming out in favour of BRINO the number of voters who will stick with them will be sufficient to oust a Tory party split down the middle. Still party politics, but at least I could live with the result: soft Brexit, Tories split, Labour government.

The question is to what ends will Maybot go to stop this. I heard a theory she'd bully the Queen into not giving royal assent.

Her Majesty does not strike me as one easily bullied. How many prime ministers did she go through already?

[LeGin Tufnel]

You can bully the Queen?

Both in theory and in practise, I'm not sure. But I have absolutely zero doubt that May is sufficiently mad enough to try.

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Her Majesty does not strike me as one easily bullied. How many prime ministers did she go through already?

Yes, lol - I'm not really being serious. The idea that Liz would override parliament.... civil wars have been fought for less.

It was some sincere academic talking head on the radio waffling on about theoretical possibilities.

In fairness, I do have some sympathy for that lot. I'm not really an out and out republican. It's a poisoned chalice their life - infinite resources but an inability to live a normal life.

[dribbles]

Due to proportional representation in the German parliament vs FPTP in ours - their share of the vote is (or was) pretty much identical to UKIPs in the UK.

Oh that's interesting. All I ever hear here is the wonders of PR and yet it allows huge representation (94 MP'S) of extremists, that sounds a really really bad way to do things, do you agree?

Glad we have cleared up that FPTP is the superior from of democracy.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Her Majesty does not strike me as one easily bullied. How many prime ministers did she go through already?

Quite a few. And she fired the Australian government because they couldn't decide on a budget.

[Pann]

Quite a few. And she fired the Australian government because they couldn't decide on a budget.

No, she didn't.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

No, she didn't.

The Governor General is her direct representative in Australia and everything he/she does or says is done in the Queen's name. So, legally, she did.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Oh that's interesting. All I ever hear here is the wonders of PR and yet it allows huge representation (94 MP'S) of extremists, that sounds a really really bad way to do things, do you agree?

Glad we have cleared up that FPTP is the superior from of democracy.

FPTP is on its way out, Mr D.

This fiasco is a complete and utter sham.

It all needs to change: our media, our politics, the whole fucking lot. Adversarial politics needs to be dispensed with and we need to embrace consensus politics.

You, know - I'm a remainer; however, I'd go along with May's deal or a soft Brexit to avoid conflict. All I hear from you idealogues on the fringes is: conflict, conflict & more conflict.

I will heartily cheer the Tories splitting and the right of her party (and indeed the country) disappearing off angrily into the good night.

And you know what that will mean? The result of your inability to compromise? Corbyn and co. in Downing St. Personally, I can live with this. Can you?

[Pann]

The Governor General is her direct representative in Australia and everything he does or says is done in the Queen's name. So, legally, she did.

Apart from the fact that it was Sir John Kerr that decided to dismiss the Australian PM and he did not inform the Queen prior to doing so.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Why are you guys arguing seriously about the Queen?

The Queen is not going to deny royal assent. She's going to be evac'd to Sandringham with her corgis where she'll stay, giving occasional not-so-subtle lectures to the WI about the importance of national unity.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Apart from the fact that it was Sir John Kerr that decided to dismiss the Australian PM and he did not inform the Queen prior to doing so.

Sir John Kerr was the Governor General at the time. I.E. her direct representative. What the GG in Australia says, is said in the name of the Queen. Anyway, you're pushing the thread OT so...

The Motions being debated this evening are:

• Motion C: Committing the government to negotiating "a permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU" as part of any Brexit deal - proposed by Tory former chancellor Ken Clarke
• Motion D: Referred to as Common Market 2.0, this option would mean joining the European Free Trade Association and European Economic Area - proposed by Tory MP Nick Boles
• Motion E: This is for a confirmatory referendum, giving the public a vote to approve any Brexit deal passed by Parliament before it can be implemented - proposed by Labour MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson
• Motion G: The motion aims to prevent the UK leaving without a deal, including a vote on whether to revoke Article 50 - stopping Brexit - if the EU does not agree to an extension - proposed by the SNP's Joanna Cherry

The motions not being put to a vote are:

• A unilateral exit to the backstop (presumably because the EU would simply say "no")
• To leave on 12 April without a deal (rejected multiple times already)
• To hold a referendum in the case of no-deal (Motion E would provide for a referendum)
• To rejoin the European Free Trade Association (duplicate motion to Motion D).

The Government is getting their full money's worth out of the DUP, which has confirmed they are abstaining on all votes this evening. Man, those 1.5 billion pounds were so well spent, it could have been Grayling's idea to bribe the DUP.

[dribbles]

FPTP is on its way out, Mr D.

This fiasco is a complete and utter sham.

It all needs to change: our media, our politics, the whole fucking lot. Adversarial politics needs to be dispensed with and we need to embrace consensus politics.

You, know - I'm a remainer; however, I'd go along with May's deal or a soft Brexit to avoid conflict. All I hear from you idealogues on the fringes is: conflict, conflict & more conflict.

I will heartily cheer the Tories splitting and the right of her party (and indeed the country) disappearing off angrily into the good night.

And you know what that will mean? The result of your inability to compromise? Corbyn and co. in Downing St. Personally, I can live with this. Can you?

I don't believe FPTP is going anywhere, it is too cushty for the 2 main parties neither of whom want to see 50 UKIP/Lib Dems/Buckethead MP's in parliament.

I think there is more chance of PM Johnson than that or a Corbyn led UK...

[LeGin Tufnel]

I don't believe FPTP is going anywhere, it is too cushty for the 2 main parties neither of whom want to see 50 UKIP/Lib Dems/Buckethead MP's in parliament.

I think there is more chance of PM Johnson than that or a Corbyn led UK...

Yes - but if the Tories split? Or do you think this isn't a serious possibility?

[Northern Goblin]

Imagine thinking one of the weakest PMs in history could bully Her Majesty.

These results could be very close tonight, a lot of cross party support.

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Yes - but if the Tories split? Or do you think this isn't a serious possibility?

Labour aren't going to stay intact either under Corbyn.

[dribbles]

Yes - but if the Tories split? Or do you think this isn't a serious possibility?

Oh no sure they may split, but you think momentum led Corbyn and Labour is more unifying than a Boris Johnson led Tory party? Blair was right yesterday when he said in a face-off Johnson would win. There still won't be enough votes in either scenarios to get rid of FPTP.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Imagine thinking one of the weakest PMs in history could bully Her Majesty.

These results could be very close tonight, a lot of cross party support.

If I'm not mistaken, the selected motions all have cross-party signatories.

Labour aren't going to stay intact either under Corbyn.

Labour could do much worse than put Keir Starmer in charge of the party.

[Pann]

Sir John Kerr was the Governor General at the time. I.E. her direct representative. What the GG in Australia says, is said in the name of the Queen. Anyway, you're pushing the thread OT so...

It still doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. Perhaps you should have thought about whether or not this was OT when you first posted your inaccurate information?

[LeGin Tufnel]

Labour aren't going to stay intact either under Corbyn.

Great, even better...

But the problem, though, is that the party that splits first will give incentive to the other party to maintain unity.

Hence, Corbyn coming out *finally* in favour of BRINO to force the Tories' hand. Definitely a political move. Yet more party politics!

I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment about this - it's monumental. He's literally telling his working class northern voters to fuck off. He's fannied around for god knows how long and now he's finally gone for it - three days too late.

They need to split at exactly the same time!

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Oh no sure they may split, but you think momentum led Corbyn and Labour is more unifying than a Boris Johnson led Tory party? Blair was right yesterday when he said in a face-off Johnson would win. There still won't be enough votes in either scenarios to get rid of FPTP.

Fair enough - but that's a massive, massive gamble isn't it. No - I think Corbyn would win.