[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[ringpriest]

So we're back to finger pointing?

Blame the racists. Not all Brexiteers are racists, but take out the racists and they wouldn't have been close to 50%. And if you couldn't manipulate a bunch of racist idiots, you'd have to advance actual sound arguments for leaving the EU, along with a realistic cost/benefit analysis and a clear political path to success. Which I doubt they could've done, but if they had then Brexit wouldn't be the fucking shambles it is.

Everything else is window dressing really.

It's not racism all on its own - I think there's an argument to be made that decades of exposure to Murdoch-influenced "news" has, for significant portions of the population of Australia, the United States, and the United Kingdom, driven them insane for all practical purposes (and inflicted some degree of mental trauma on much of the rest).

[Shalcker]

It's not racism all on its own - I think there's an argument to be made that decades of exposure to Murdoch-influenced "news" has, for significant portions of the population of Australia, the United States, and the United Kingdom, driven them insane for all practical purposes (and inflicted some degree of mental trauma on much of the rest).

More like public understanding of situation (partially driven by news, but not just them) diverged from actual developments.

And not just in UK.

[Kallisto]

Heads up! Eyes to the front! Now, children, can anyone spell compromise?

Mrs May is it spelled.

A C C E P T. M Y. D E A L. A N D. I. G I V E. N O T H I N G. I N. R E T U R N?

[Mormolyce]

It's not racism all on its own - I think there's an argument to be made that decades of exposure to Murdoch-influenced "news" has, for significant portions of the population of Australia, the United States, and the United Kingdom, driven them insane for all practical purposes (and inflicted some degree of mental trauma on much of the rest).

True, some of the people who appear to be racists are just easy marks.

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More like public understanding of situation (partially driven by news, but not just them) diverged from actual developments.

And not just in UK.

Almost like someone's running a massive disinformation campaign or something.

[Shalcker]

Almost like someone's running a massive disinformation campaign or something.

Mostly it's domestic governments doing it for their own ends though.

[Slant]

Mostly it's domestic governments doing it for their own ends though.

Mostly it's Russia. End of story.

[Skroe]

May is flying to Berlin and Paris to beg at the moment.

Macron and Merkel should slam the gates in her face unless she agrees to a new referendum in exchange for an Article 50 extension.

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He's saying she should revoke A50 which would mean life carries on exactly as it is now. What May is saying in the video is that she has been forced to work with a party leader who she herself has branded as dangerous in order to pass her shitty vassal state WA so that she can say we have left the EU.

Only we will still for all intents and purposes be part of the EU, just now we don't get a seat at the table, we don't get a veto and we take what is given to us because pensioners and former BNP voters are too fucking stupid to realise we live in an era of power blocks and being the UK alone in a world of global super powers is begging to be taken behind the bike sheds and be given a good seeing to.

You think the EU is bad? Wait untill you've seen what the Americans and the Chinese have in store for us.

Heh, I really think a lot of people used to the way things have generally been since 1992 are completely out of their depth. They have legitimately no clue what is coming as the United States and China circle around each other.

The early Cold War was be bad. It was however, restrained by limitations on technology and the fact that the Soviet Union (along with much of the world) was recovering from the largest and most costly war in history. It was also restrained by Soviet military and civilian leaders having the shared experience of that war with their Western counterparts. While ideological, there was no overwhelming rush to bring about a sequel, especially once Stalin died.

This will be worse. The technology will make it worse. The sheer wealth and industrial might of both the US and China will make it worse. The lack of a recent major war will make it worse. And most ominously of all, the lack of shared experience between American and Chinese leadership, civilian and military, will make it far more dangerous.

Are people ready for East and West to have entirely different sets of incompatible technologies? That East and West will have, even at the consumer level, limitations compared to their counterparts because of restrictions? Are people prepared for resource scarcity for things they take for granted now? Are people prepared for countries, and even entire parts of the world, to be off limits to routine travel? All of these were common place during the last Cold War, and they're coming roaring back.

This is going to go on for decades and the entire human race is going to get caught in the middle. God help anyone who isn't rich or in a big bloc like the EU to protect them. Brexit is the most ill-timed self-own in modern history precisely because of this.

[Omega10]

Mostly it's Russia. End of story.

At least in the US, most of our misinformation is domestically produced. Russia may be adding to the pile, but we are the CHAMPIONS of misinformation.

One of the interesting defenses of Trump revolves around the idea that: Americans produce SO MUCH misinformation, and are SO good at insulting each other, that how can anyone complain about the little bit extra that Russia - or any other country - is throwing in on top?

And Israel does a LOT more interfering in our political discourse. Orders of magnitude more.


If ever DO get around to cleaning up our political atmosphere - then removing Russian influence needs to be only a start.

[Noradin]

I've read it somewhere that Western European history is really just Charlemagne's empire trying to put itself back together. The EU is the best shot so far. If you look at it, it was founded by the countries whose land actually made that empire up.

And that is just the Franks trying to rebuild* the Roman Empire (thus the name).

*this does not necessarily mean that they wanted rule it.

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Jesus you'll summon Shalcker and we'll be on page 900 before we get back to the topic

You forgot to put an @ in front of his name.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Are you actually this stupid??. The outbreaks usually occor because the manufacturer doen't follow proceedure and guidelines for handling the food, not the way it's processed.

Who said the we will be forced to buy Chlorinated Chicken?? You do realise U.S has other products other than chicken right??.

Bunch of thick cunts.

So, when Chaud finally decides to close General OT, this is going to make your life a better place is it?

[Noradin]

So she asks for the option least likely to get from the EU? No reason to extend longer than may 22nd if the UK doesn't say they will definately participate in the EU elections.

Well, she needs it to fail so she can use the EU as a scapegoat one last time and blackmail parliament by threathening no deal.

[Slant]

At least in the US, most of our misinformation is domestically produced. Russia may be adding to the pile, but we are the CHAMPIONS of misinformation.

Russia is very involved in Europe. We do not know the extent of it, yet. But it seems everytime some fucked up organisation pops up, Russia is behind it. See, while I detest misinformation from a domestic source, I react aggressively towards foreign forces manipulating the European ecosystem. This goes for the Russia as well as China or the US.

[Noradin]

I have yet to meet someone who wants more immigration. Anywhere on this planet. The most I see is people tolerating immigration and making the best of it. But want?

How about the SNP?
They want more immigration from Europe (and the rest of the world) into Scottish highlands.
They do not want to "exploit" them though, they simply need more people to keep their communties alive.

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Every nation exploits their own people though, that's how nations work.

Not surprising that this is your view of the workings of nations.

[Omega10]

Russia is very involved in Europe. We do not know the extent of it, yet. But it seems everytime some fucked up organisation pops up, Russia is behind it. See, while I detest misinformation from a domestic source, I react aggressively towards foreign forces manipulating the European ecosystem. This goes for the Russia as well as China or the US.

Understood. I see that there is a fundamental difference between the US and EU. We have so much domestic misinformation that it would be tough for foreign sources to compete. Usually when a fucked up organization pops up here, it is domestic.

[Slant]

How about the SNP?
They want more immigration from Europe (and the rest of the world) into Scottish highlands.
They do not want to "exploit" them though, they simply need more people to keep their communties alive.

So what they want is more alive communities, but they don't look into immigration for the sake of immigration. That's my point. Whenever people say "X wants more immigration" they're kind of glossing over that country X wants to "fix a problem with immigration" and that usually means "controlled immigration of desired skillsets", which is way, way not what certain far-right groups imply when they pick up on these lines and say "Oh, so X wants to be the next caliphate".

That's why I'm very sceptical of loose language like that.

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Understood. I see that there is a fundamental difference between the US and EU. We have so much domestic misinformation that it would be tough for foreign sources to compete. Usually when a fucked up organization pops up here, it is domestic.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. While capitalism leads to a lot of... strange things from a European point of view, they're essentially American and so... not as fucked up as you'd think by American standards. So, Trump really is just the culmination of what is going on in your culture and your society in general. But when you see how China submerses entire corporate networks in the US corporate landscape and the lobbies involved with it, you begin to wonder how much influence China actually has. Not speaking about the manipulation of voters, speaking more about direct influence on legislation.

We'll see how this turns out, but if @Skroe is a representative example of a proper conservative in the US, the US will snap back so hard, China and Russia will rotate from the backlash.

[Noradin]

So what they want is more alive communities, but they don't look into immigration for the sake of immigration. That's my point. Whenever people say "X wants more immigration" they're kind of glossing over that country X wants to "fix a problem with immigration" and that usually means "controlled immigration of desired skillsets", which is way, way not what certain far-right groups imply when they pick up on these lines and say "Oh, so X wants to be the next caliphate".

That's why I'm very sceptical of loose language like that.

No, they do not want to fix anything but a shortage of people, skillset does not matter.
They truly desire immigration.

[Shalcker]

Not surprising that this is your view of the workings of nations.

If you consider what USSR did exploitation, then clearly there are no exceptions here.

[AeneasBK]

You forgot to put an @ in front of his name.

No I genuinely didn't want to talk about bananas for 5 pages

[Slant]

Aaand it's preview time! Preview you ask? Yes, preview of the near future. This is what you got your countrymen into, Brexiteers... good job!



Totally working out for you guys, isn't it? Apparently, this dude needs that stuff for a dissertation, too. Pfft, who needs dissertations anyway, right? Just more experts and nobody needs those. Fuck education! Idiocracy ftw!

[dribbles]

Aaand it's preview time! Preview you ask? Yes, preview of the near future. This is what you got your countrymen into, Brexiteers... good job!

Totally working out for you guys, isn't it? Apparently, this dude needs that stuff for a dissertation, too. Pfft, who needs dissertations anyway, right? Just more experts and nobody needs those. Fuck education! Idiocracy ftw!

The penny is dropping in Germany on Brexit. Today’s @CDU & @CSU Euro-elections manifesto: “We respect the British decision to leave” and seek “good partnership, close cooperation & close trade relations” & want “to come to quick agreements even in a No Deal Brexit”

https://twitter.com/GregHands/status...59067997081600

See there are some sensible Germans about. Hurry up eurochums with this agreement, there's some poor sod waiting to do his dissertation...