View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #16001
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I don't know if you think making fun of your own argument somehow gives it more credibility, but you do you.
    I don't know how does length of particular rule affects one's understanding of democratic processes; clearly you think that matters, could you show your reasoning behind it?

    Maybe we should dismiss all German opinions until they replaced Merkel?

  2. #16002
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    And you think that was fair that the remain positioned government with all its lies, money, no - my tax money, and machinery behind it campaigned for leave without giving equal succour and resource to the leave side? and then has the cheek to accuse the leave side of illegal spending? more Nonsense.

    Where did remain lie?
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  3. #16003
    If the hardcore brexiters wanted to brexit they have had a number of chances to do so. At each opportunity they refuse. Right now it really looks like they are looking for someway to just shovel this whole mess into a corner somewhere and forget it ever happened.

  4. #16004
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Elections in Germany are conducted in a far more legitimate and fair manner than they are in Russia, along with the press actually being free.
    That's just your opinion, clearly tainted by Western propaganda /s

    There are plenty of free press available in Russia as well (not all, but enough).

    But so what... How does that "fairness and legitimacy" in other country or my own country affects my understanding?
    Are you of thinking that only ones who participated in "truly legitimate and fair elections" can have any opinion on democracy?
    Is one-time enough or does it have to be reoccurring? Could you show your credentials that allow you to talk about democracy?

    As we're seeing with Brexit, people can live perfectly fine without understanding systems under which they live at all.

    Maybe Russia should try that if Russia wants to be considered democratic.
    Or maybe we can try something else; democracy isn't the only option, and there is really no upside to getting "recognized as democratic" on Western terms rather then our own terms.

  5. #16005
    I am Murloc!
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    so the UK has 6 month to find a way to cancel Brexit without losing face now.

  6. #16006
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Where did remain lie?
    Really? Take your blinkers off matey...

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mat..._12191462.html
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  7. #16007
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Really? Take your blinkers off matey...

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mat..._12191462.html
    I stopped reading your linked blog post at "The UK gives the EU a gross contribution of £350 million a week. This is not a lie,"

    Seriously, after all this time....

  8. #16008
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Really? Take your blinkers off matey...
    We were told companies would leave the UK in their droves, especially in the car industry. There is no sign of this
    Er... why are you linking blatantly unicorn articles from 2016?
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-04-11 at 10:42 PM.

  9. #16009
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    Er... why are you linking blatantly unicorn articles from 2016?
    Er... did you forget that was the year the referendum was held? It doesn't seem reasonable to you that an article from that time would be linked?

    No? Ok then just take it from me, that article is timeless.
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  10. #16010
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Er... did you forget that was the year the referendum was held? It doesn't seem reasonable to you that an article from that time would be linked?

    No? Ok then just take it from me, that article is timeless.
    An article talking about zero companies leaving the UK, especially car companies, is timeless?

    It's more fun when you try harder, honestly

  11. #16011
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Er... did you forget that was the year the referendum was held? It doesn't seem reasonable to you that an article from that time would be linked?

    No? Ok then just take it from me, that article is timeless.
    You're barely even trying to troll now.

  12. #16012
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Really? Take your blinkers off matey...

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mat..._12191462.html
    I repeat my question, where did remain lie?

    Now, let's rip apart your "response":

    It's an article from 2016. The £350 million a week is a really sketchy napkin math exaggeration, ignoring the money that flows back in return. We do know the difference between gross and net, that's why remainers have pointed out that leavers are using semantics to obfuscate the issue. See, you say X amount is coming back, but when you're told it's not X, it's X-Y, you pretend you meant that all along. No, you don't. As long as nobody points it out, you're happy to lie by omission. The money is not being spent on the NHS as we know now. It could be spent on it, but it will not be spent on it. As we know now. As we predicted back then. Again, this is the leave side obfuscating reality and then going "Oh yeah, well, we could, so what we said was technically correct." Yes, but also - again - lying by omission.

    Next, the quote about Tusk is a blatant misquote. The original said "[...]Als Historiker fürchte ich: Der Brexit könnte der Beginn der Zerstörung nicht nur der EU, sondern der gesamten politischen Zivilisation des Westens sein."

    https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/...2200.bild.html

    The BBC has a better translation: ""As a historian I fear Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also Western political civilisation in its entirety," he told the German newspaper Bild."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...endum-36515680

    This is propaganda for everyone to witness. One line suggests Brexit to be the cause of destruction, the other indicating Brexit possibly being a marker for when destruction is about to happen.

    But, the article now downplays Brexit by pointing out civilisation still exists. Yes, because the referendum is not Brexit, it's just a referendum. Brexit hasn't happened, yet. Won't happen until the UK is actually out. But for someting that hasn't happened, yet, it clearly has significant negative impact on the UK already. I quoted enough companies leaving the UK or shifting out of the UK in parts, I don't think I need to repeat that.

    I have no idea what the paragraph with Cameron was on about... Someone got lost in his own fiction there, I dare say. But sure, let it be a lie. *shrug*

    He goes on about a recession not happening. Erm, yeah it is happening. And again, Brexit isn't even here, yet. So, this is what you get for quoting a 2 year old article. You're outright lying, you cheap f...

    The jury is still out on job losses, but considering that your economy is already beginning to nosedive, I'd say this study is fairly serious:

    https://www.statista.com/chart/16377...it-job-losses/

    But when unicorns don't show up, believe in the reality of two years ago when literally nothing has happened, yet. That's what you do, don't you?

    "There is no sign of this [companies leaving the UK]." A lie? Let's see...

    Aviva
    Bank of America
    Merril Lynch
    Barclays
    Credit Suisse
    Dyson
    Ford
    BMW
    Goldman Sachs
    Honda
    HSBC
    Jaguara Land Rover
    Toyota
    JPMorgan Chase
    Lloyds of London
    Michelin
    Moneygram
    Nissan
    Panasonic
    P&O
    Philips
    Rolls-Royce
    Schaeffler
    Sony
    UBS
    Unilever

    All of those companies are moving assets, jobs and HQs to the continent and/or are slashing jobs in the UK. And the list is fucking growing daily.

    Personally, I like the bits about Cameron. So, Cameron was a lying fuck. And that makes every Remainer a lying fuck? Okay, that's sound logic right there.


    But this circle logic is also beautiful:

    "The former Prime Minister also tried to claim the UK could manage its immigration policy while inside the EU. Why are 'Remain' campaigners insisting we start to control immigration in any Brexit deal then? Because we cannot control EU immigration now, proving Cameron was lying."

    So Cameron talks about the situation while being in the EU. The author then talks about (unknown) 'Remain' campaigners talking about control in a deal situation, which somehow (without any sources) means in reverse that you don't have control while in the EU (fuck knows how that conclusion works) and thus Cameron (again representing everything about leave) is a liar? How's that work in fairy tale land?

    So yes, please... do challenge the Remain narrative. Because so far, you and your inbred cousins have done fuck all to challenge any of the facts you're presented with. You've been proven wrong at every turn time and again. And of course you'll ignore this post as well, because you got fuck all to say except lies, deceit and semantics you sad little pr...
    Last edited by Slant; 2019-04-11 at 11:40 PM.
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  13. #16013
    Yeah my car insurer (Nissay-Dowa, annual earnings nearly 8 billion pounds) wrote to me a couple of months ago to inform me that they were moving their corporate HQ to Luxembourg and I quote "due to Brexit". Because financial services companies with their HQ in London could risk not being granted licenses to trade in the EU after Brexit (a customs union wouldn't help because they don't handle services, only goods).

    So yeah, major international companies are moving staff, headquarters and assents out of the UK, and fast. And even cancelling Brexit wouldn't be enough to tempt them back.

  14. #16014
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Rather, the UK has 6 more months to kick the can down the road and bring May's Deal back to a vote in early October.
    .More like the UK has 6 months to work out how it can kick the can even further down the road in 6 months time.

    As for who lied during the referendum, does it matter? If either side cheated, regardless outcome, the result should be void.

  15. #16015
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I don't know how does length of particular rule affects one's understanding of democratic processes; clearly you think that matters, could you show your reasoning behind it?

    Maybe we should dismiss all German opinions until they replaced Merkel?
    It's not so much length of particular rule, but length of particular ruler. Considering you argue that vorting for parliament is meaningless I guessed that comes from your national meaningless parliament which of course is not the same in every country (in that it is meaningless).

    Now I also thought you would understand the jokingly point I was making but you doubled down on it and made fun of your own argument in the process.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  16. #16016
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    It's not so much length of particular rule, but length of particular ruler.
    So, you keep avoiding the answer - should we exclude German opinions because of Merkel's uninterrupted ~14 year reign (which is quite comparable to Putin's ~13 years as President)? Is that somehow taints their understanding of democracy like it does for Russians? You haven't shown mechanism by which you suppose that works.

    Because i could make certain generalizations between Germans and Russians to support such viewpoint, but i'm not sure if that's your angle. Like "it's just consensus by majority that this particular figure is best, that's why they win every time" (and so might their "chosen successors"). With trust in them being built up (and eroded) by their actions and being better then predecessors.

    Considering you argue that vorting for parliament is meaningless I guessed that comes from your national meaningless parliament which of course is not the same in every country (in that it is meaningless).
    We were talking about "EU democracy", not national democracy though. Voting for European Parliament? Yes, as far as i see largely meaningless - EP is far too removed from their constituents, and results of their votes sometimes take longer to reach them then electoral cycle.

    That's why voters show such apathy to those elections compared to national elections, and some pretty odd figures get voted in (like Farage).

    And it has nothing to do with length of particular ruler's reign.

    Now I also thought you would understand the jokingly point I was making but you doubled down on it and made fun of your own argument in the process.
    I think you imagined argument that i didn't even make.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2019-04-12 at 06:50 AM.

  17. #16017
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Er... did you forget that was the year the referendum was held? It doesn't seem reasonable to you that an article from that time would be linked?

    No? Ok then just take it from me, that article is timeless.
    I'm confused, did the UK leave the EU yet?

  18. #16018
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Will it ever? Inquiring minds want to know! "Tick Tock" was changed to "Trick or Treat!" apparently.
    I keep being reminded of that British EU diplomat telling Barnier to just keep extending until the idea of Brexit sort of just... fades away in the background noise of the royals getting babies, something something Premiership or FA cup and GoT madness... and once they get to see the next season of Dr. Who, they can argue about how bad Whittaker is and how good Capaldid was (whom they hated back then, because he wasn't Matt Smith... apparently, this is a cycle that goes back all the way to the first doctor). See, you've all but stopped thinking about Brexit by the end of this paragraph, haven't you?
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  19. #16019
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    Even if you dislike the extension, let's be honest here and something the Brits will learn over time.

    The EU is not in favour of doing this for any other reason but to ensure a smooth and painless transition from UK businesses and industries to the mainland in addition to ensuring there's not a massive issue with UK residents living on the mainland and getting their pension and what not in addition to EU citizens living in the UK and maintaining their rights.

    The UK has already lost in this battle, they simple aren't aware of it yet. Let them boycott elections, send more trolls to the EU parliament who's interest is only to serve their own bank account and who don't care or simply aren't aware of all the things in motion. Cause squandering that last bit of good will from EU side will do miracles for the UK in the long run, if we are even speaking of an united kingdom a decade from now, which i doubt.

  20. #16020
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I honestly have no idea what I should be rooting for at this point. I wanted the EU to take a harder stance but at the same time that just gives food to the far right. I expect nothing from the UK, their politicians are useless and the people just don't care enough. Imo they should have given the UK a June 30 extension with the prospect of a futher extension if they participated in elections at that point so as to appear helpful and then just decline a further extension after the EU elections so as to mitigate the damage but still let them finally leave and let us alone.
    I'm not the biggest fan of the extension. This is just prolonging the inevitable. They will crash out eventually, if only because of their incompetence to recognize their role in this. There's nothing for them left to debate, yet they still cling to the fantasy that whatever they debate in the HoC actually matters at this stage. It doesn't.

    From a practical point of view, businesses will be happy about this. And that's always good. I suspect the EU will focus on the election now, the main topic... are you pro EU or EU sceptic? I wish it wasn't overshadowed by Brexit and we can discuss real topics like do you want an EU defense force or not? More reform or less? More integration or less? Those are all big and important questions, but Brexit is going to condense all of that down to pro-EU or EU sceptic? Which is a bit unfortunate, but it is what it is.
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