[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Slant]

At least in Sweden, anything above about 3-4% isn't allowed to be sold outside of a state-run monopoly. Obviously, that isn't exactly an environment conductive to cheap alcohol.

Yeah, when I was little and we visited family in Sweden or Finland, it was almost customary to bring alcohol from the duty free shop of the ferry to the host.

[Dhrizzle]

[kantlant]

Here's some questions for you to think about:

What 17 million? How many of those voted to leave without a deal, when the Leave campaign stated that the UK would only leave AFTER negotiating a deal. Do you remember when the Leave campaign said they wouldn't even hand in notice to leave until they had a deal? What about the ones that believed Liam Fox, IDS and David Davies when they said they would have a deal signed and sealed before Leaving Day?

Why do you think there is an ever-growing list of multi-national corporations that have either left, or are leaving the UK?

Why do you think all those manufacturers coincidentally decided to announce they were moving operations overseas after it became clear that a deal will never be struck and the UK will be in permanent limbo between leaving and staying?

Why does British Steel need a 100M pound emergency loan from the government to cover the cost of buying emissions credits?

Why have prominent (mostly Brexiteer) MPs been moving their money out of the UK to the EU?

British scientists have been effectively excluded from bidding for EU grants for the last year and a half, as they would be due to start in 2020/21.

The lies and financial rule breaking by the Leave campaign have been confirmed in court and they admitted guilt to it.

The UK has a parliament that doesn't know what it wants (it just doesn't want a no-deal brexit and is prepared to legislate against the government to force its hand). It has a government that has no control over its party members, and cabinet members that contradict the PM in public and vote against the orders of a 3 line whip.

Nobody is investing in the UK because nobody wants to invest in an unknown quantity. Tell me how much it will cost to import 12000 tonnes of aluminium to the UK in 2022 to build aircraft fuselages or car engines. What are the rules about work visas going to be in 2 years time?

What will happen to the City of London when companies like Lloyds lose their license to trade in the EU, when EU members entice the firms with access to the EU? Where will the government's budget come from?
.

As a remainer I almost want to cry when I hear remainers talking this.

These are terrible, awful arguments. If somebody had been whispering this stuff to me the day of the vote I'm not sure how I'd have voted.

You need to stop parroting the ghasty, useless counter-productive strategy of the actual remain campaign. Without that campaign remain would have won easily.

You people need to get this into your skulls: NO ONE, BUT NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT THE BANKS LEAVING. At best people don't care, at worst they actively loathe the banks. Stop tying your argument to a group of people which everyone fucking hates. You might as well point to the fact that immigrant child molesters are leaving.

More generally most people don't care about the wider health of the economy, because a healthy economy has not benefited most people in the slightest, it has all gone to the top.

Do you seriously think any one blathering on about thousands of tonnes of aluminum is going to change people's minds?

You need to reframe your argument so that EU membership means something to ordinary people's lives.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

You need to reframe your argument so that EU membership means something to ordinary people's lives.

How about:

Less doctors and nursing staff in surgeries and hospitals -> longer waiting times for both GPs and hospital beds (20% of medical staff in London hospitals were from the EU and the nationwide average was 5% before 2016, by 2021 there will be over 50k vacancies).
Less people to harvest food -> less food available and it thus becomes more expensive (primarily done by eastern european seasonal workers).
Less farm subsidies -> food more expensive and less of it (provided by the EU)
Less teaching staff in schools and universities -> more students per teacher -> lower quality education
Wealth gap increases as living costs rise and living standards decrease

[Dhrizzle]

As a remainer...

Does anyone else automatically assume that burner accounts claiming to be remainers are either leavers or non-Brits stirring the pot?

[Slant]

Just to make sure nobody dreams of unicorns tonight:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...1&guccounter=1

Nancy Pelosi Warns 'No Chance Whatsoever' Of US-UK Trade Deal If Brexit Harms Good Friday Agreement

Another nail in the coffin of no-deal, Dribs. Tick, tock, baby. Is your clock late? What's going on, mate?

[dribbles]

Just to make sure nobody dreams of unicorns tonight:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...1&guccounter=1



Another nail in the coffin of no-deal, Dribs. Tick, tock, baby. Is your clock late? What's going on, mate?

Not unicorns at all matey, because of brexit...

UK is found to be hottest investment destination despite Brexit - knocking the United States off the top spot for the first time in FIVE years

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...te-Brexit.html

"All the Horror Stories" Got news for you bro I'm on my last week in my job in the medicine sector of england and guess what want Naproxen 250mg GR Good luck with that our suppliers have had none for months, does your wife need HRT because guess what most women do after a certain age woooooops suppliers have had none of that for weeks and while ibruprofen 200mg is still in stock atm its running out quickly as for the 400mg version sorry bro ran out weeks ago no idea when more will be coming in and these are just a few of the very commonly used medications that have gone out of stock with no word on their return, THAT's just medicine.

Before anyone says Hurrdurrr use other suppliers most pharmacies use other suppliers ALL of them have none of the stock...

You still here, hanging around in the UK like a bad smell? Hurry up will you, can't have you still here to vote in the EU elections, Sargon has a job to do.

But to be fair now you have told us why you always appear a little fraught on the forums in that you are missing your HRT tablets let me help you out.

https://www.theindependentpharmacy.c...proxen-tablets

Order before 4pm for delivery tomorrow, go on make the world a happier place get some right now ffs.

[Demolitia]

Not unicorns at all matey, because of brexit...

UK is found to be hottest investment destination despite Brexit - knocking the United States off the top spot for the first time in FIVE years

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...te-Brexit.html



You still here, hanging around in the UK like a bad smell? Hurry up will you, can't have you still here to vote in the EU elections, Sargon has a job to do.

But to be fair now you have told us why you always appear a little fraught on the forums in that you are missing your HRT tablets let me help you out.

https://www.theindependentpharmacy.c...proxen-tablets

Order before 4pm for delivery tomorrow, go on make the world a happier place get some right now ffs.

Also from your link :
https://www.theindependentpharmacy.c...k-price-update

[dribbles]

Awww is poor lil Dribs getting testy in his losing streak, I'm still a British citizen and I WILL still be voting just to to make life a misery even more for you pathetic Brexiteer's.

I feel I touched a nerve with lil Dribs in lil England I'm genuinely howling right now.

Get your HRT tablets, sort them hot flushes out and we'll chat tomorrow when you are in a better mood!

[dribbles]

Which one of these are from you on Big Fat Carls discord?

Must be r8 happy to see the UK might have him as a representative.

This is what happens when Tory and Labour politicians betray the people who put them in power, but they are finished now. And it is worrying. What idiot will vote Conservative or Labour when not a word out of their mouths can you trust?

People only have three choices in upcoming elections, one extreme clearly offering remain is the Lib Dems, the centre mainstream ground occupied by the Brexit party and the other extreme being UKIP.

Tbh I cant make my mind up yet between UKIPs Sargon and Dankula with his nazi dog or go mainstream with Farages Brexit party. I suppose like most moderate sensible people I'll go with the majority and Farage in the end. But for now I sit on the fence...

I wonder if the Lib Dems, the only clear remain party, will even break 10% of the vote such is the unpopularity of that?

I doubt they'll do better with remain as their policy than the Sargon lot will with their extreme leave.

Oh well, does that leave Nigel Farage for PM? Don't rule it out.

[dribbles]

I'm not sure Dribbles can either lose or win. He's channeling Nigel Farage, that's his goal. By the limited standards of this goal he is doing quite well. I'm not sure anything else matters to his belief system. Brexiteers are an odd sort of creature, like plankton or turtles or something, rules which apply to others don't apply to them.

I quite like that, but if I may correct a small detail I would say brexiteers are plankton and remainers are turtles. One is far more populous than the other...

[Dizzeeyooo]

Probably also useful to remember that MEPs are not always reflective of their party leadership - vast majority of Labour MEPs are very decent people (shout-out to Seb Dance), and the Conservatives also have quite a few good ones (like Richard Ashworth).

Probably need to update this, as Richard Ashworth has just joined TIG, along with Julie Girling, one of his equally decent colleagues.

Conservatives are actually going to get destroyed in these elections

[LeGin Tufnel]

I quite like that, but if I may correct a small detail I would say brexiteers are plankton and remainers are turtles. One is far more populous than the other...

I'd suggest that your analogy, in terms of actual numbers, is wildly and spectacularly inaccurate.

A better analogy would be e.g.,

Pet population of UK 2014

Hamsters vs lizards. 50/50 split.

[Northern Goblin]

Can you explain that logic?

Every poll shows that Corbyn almost as good as certain is going to end up being Prime Minister,

No they don't. He hasn't a cat in hell's chance.

He had his best shot last time and still lost by over 50 seats. He will never be Prime Minister.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Just to make clear that I'm not just making this up here is a news article discussing in same polls: Jeremy Corbyn ‘on course to be prime minister’ as third poll in two days shows collapse in Tory support | The Independent https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8869171.html

And a bit of googling for recent GE polls should also show how massive Labour's lead is at the moment. UKIP and Brexit Party are cannibalizing the Tory voters.

I personally have no horse in this race, I'd rather prefer a PM that would cancel Brexit, but a BINO is probably just as good if not better for the EU.

Sure - but these polls are indicative of the moment. So, if there was a GE tomorrow, Labour could well win. But May is not about to call a GE. Why would she? It'd require a motion of no confidence where a significant number of Tories (and/or the DUP) abstain or vote with the opposition. This has been suggested as a possibility but actually could only come to pass in the event of a cliff edge where the UK is looking likely to crash out of the EU and principled / suicidal remainer Tories vote with Labour. The polar opposite of that - DUP and leaver Tories abstaining/voting against the government in the event of a softer Brexit - wouldn’t come to pass because Labour should in theory be onside with the government.

I’d suggest a more likely scenario is: May succeeds in a) pushing through her deal more or less as is (with the help of Labour whose leadership don’t really want a soft Brexit) and b) holds her party together in the process. Her legacy secured, she resigns to be placed by a Tory grass-roots favourite. Labour can table a motion of no confidence but this would likely fail as there’d be no real reason at this point for the DUP or leave Tories to abstain or vote with the opposition.

The result: no GE until 2022. By which time the polls will be completely different.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Be interesting if Brexit drags out until a then, considering nobody born this century voted for brexit. They might be militant by then.

Yep, well - exactly. Labour could be even more popular by that point. It was more, I don't really see a GE happening any time soon so polls are a moot point. Local council elections: yep, the Tories will get hammered. Absolutely hammered. Ditto EU elections. But it's still not going to result in anything on a national level unless Tory MPs abstain or vote against the government in a no confidence vote.

I'll be voting for independent candidates in the local election and either Green, Lib Dem or Change UK in the EP election.

If there was a GE now? I'd piss on my ballot paper. Literally.

[Noradin]

I personally have no horse in this race, I'd rather prefer a PM that would cancel Brexit, but a BINO is probably just as good if not better for the EU.

Not for the EU but probalby for the UK.
The EU would prefer constructive participation.

[Slant]

While I cannot fathom ANOTHER extension being given, the trade negotiations will continue long past 2022. As will the backstop being enforced.

To be fair, if their political class is ripping itself apart, I would grant them another extension just to let that happen and run its full course. :P That would be the political/diplomatic version of "I'm not touching! I'm not touching you! I'm not touching!"

[Kronik85]

Yep, well - exactly. Labour could be even more popular by that point. It was more, I don't really see a GE happening any time soon so polls are a moot point. Local council elections: yep, the Tories will get hammered. Absolutely hammered. Ditto EU elections. But it's still not going to result in anything on a national level unless Tory MPs abstain or vote against the government in a no confidence vote.

I'll be voting for independent candidates in the local election and either Green, Lib Dem or Change UK in the EP election.

Sounds sensible, opened up the Labour EU manifesto, first thing I read was:

Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.

We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.

We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain.

Stopped reading the thing. Not having my vote taken hostage again like it was at the last GE. I don't trust Change UK at all, Chukka in my mind is Labour's (formerly I guess) very own BoJo, man thinks he's owed the Premiership, same for the rest of the high profile Change UK members, they all think they were owed a much bigger role than they were getting in Labour and the Conservatives and now think this is their break.

So Lib Dem for me I think, seems a little more sensible than Green. Independent is good thinking for the local election though, will have to do some research on my local candidates.

[draykorinee]

Corbyn has no chance, and I was someone who wanted him in the first place, but the baggage around him has proven too much. He couldn't beat one of the worst run campaigns I've ever seen, May was there to be beaten and he fluffed it.