[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Elegiac]

All on the EU. If only they hadn't weaponised the Irish border during the Brexit negotiations. What did the EU expect?

Unfortunate, then, that Pelosi has already said that any trade deal with the UK would be off the table if the Troubles started up again.

Looks like that great trade deal you promised after Brexit ain't gonna happen while the Democrats are in power here, bub. We understand the EU's integrity is more important to Western interests than rural English fee fees.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

All on the EU. If only they hadn't weaponised the Irish border during the Brexit negotiations. What did the EU expect?

When did the EU vote to leave the UK?

It is all on the UK. The UK voted to leave. The UK decided to make FoM the core issue. The UK refused to budge on its "red lines". The UK decided it didn't care about Ireland. The backstop was only put in there because the EU told the UK it had to care about peace in Ireland if it wanted a deal.

The EU would have had no issues leaving the border open if May hadn't opened her stupid fucking mouth and said what Rees Mogg and Farage told her to say. This bullshit is entirely your mob's fault. Own it. Don't run away blaming the EU when you shit the bed.

You're all the same. Loud mouth, but no trousers. Farage dropped everything when he won in 2016. Same day, he was in the USA with his head so far up Trump's backside he could have given him a colonoscopy. First whiff of a chance at a job with some responsibility, Johnson pulled out of the leadership race. May only got the job because she was the last Tory to remain standing when the music stopped and the game of musical chairs ended.

Now the Americans have told the UK there is no chance of a trade deal if Irish Peace is even slightly affected. The EU has made itself perfectly clear that the UK will ratify the Withdrawal Agreement if it wants a trade deal (either before leaving, or after - doesn't particularly matter in the end).

Unfortunate, then, that Pelosi has already said that any trade deal with the UK would be off the table if the Troubles started up again.

Looks like that great trade deal you promised after Brexit ain't gonna happen while the Democrats are in power here, bub. We understand the EU's integrity is more important to Western interests than rural English fee fees.

The EU restarted negotiations for a trade deal this week. Wouldn't it be poetic justice if the EU got a trade deal with the US before the UK did?

[Elegiac]

The EU restarted negotiations for a trade deal this week. Wouldn't it be poetic justice if the EU got a trade deal with the US before the UK did?

And doubtless a better one, since the EU has a heckin' lot more to offer than the UK.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Remainers and the EU in collusion stirred up troubles in Ireland in an attempt to frustrate Brexit. No one on the Irish side or the British side were/are ever going to put up a hard border there. Remainers and the EU falsely claimed otherwise and lit the fuse under the Irish tinderbox with the inevitable results.

Do you have an alternative to a hard border that we're all unaware of?

Remainers simply pointed out there would be a massive problem. Leavers just denied it and muttered rubbish about "technology".

I mean, yes, if you're suggesting that Common Market 2.0 is the way forward, then fantastic. Damascene conversion?

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lool @ Turning point girl

there is no appitite for troubles violence in NI or Ire for that matter. A big pro IRA mural in derry got defaced today, which would be unthinkable previously.

dribbles you are scum and you know what you are doing. Gross human.

In fairness to him, it was me who brought it up. However, I think it's daft to be talking about "blood on hands". It's just so inflammatory.

The point I was trying to make was about the potential to return to greater levels of sectarian violence. If you look at "post-conflict" violence it's mostly been republican on republican, loyalist on loyalist and there hasn't been that much of it. But what happened yesterday was a bit of a departure.

[Mayhem]

So pleased to be able to help. A minute or so video explains it for you. Feel free to donate...

In your own words, this can't be that hard.

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It does everywhere. The UK doesn't have a monopoly on misery.

Not in Vienna.

[Slant]

Ugh.....

Absolutely ugh.

In fairness, I've yet to view a political video message that hasn't elicited that response. But that was particularly awful.

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And on to real news: trouble in NI last night. "Dissident republicans" firing on police. A journalist killed. Most "post-conflict" violence has been loyalist on loyalist, republican on republican. Is this the sign of things to come?

Don't you think it's ironic that Farage talks while a Danish Ferry is in the background servicing the British port?

[LeGin Tufnel]

Don't you think it's ironic that Farage talks while a Danish Ferry is in the background servicing the British port?

Good spot.

I was so appalled by the varying clashing shades of green & brown I was busy trying not to puke.

[Kallisto]

Do you have an alternative to a hard border that we're all unaware of?

He's stated it a few times. It's basically force Ireland out of the EU and have the hard border between mainland and UK/Ireland. He is that delusional.

[soboredofthis]

Well now it's on the Brits to show the EU how much they really want to stay in come next election.

What the fuck are you blathering on about? Do you even know?

[LeGin Tufnel]

He's stated it a few times. It's basically force Ireland out of the EU and have the hard border between mainland and UK/Ireland. He is that delusional.

Hmms, yep, maybe. But I sometimes wonder if some of Mr D's provocations are entirely genuine. It might be more of a sarcastic response to my initial question. But that's all it was: a question.

@ctd12345 - why do you think there's less potential / less appetite for this? I thought you were a Londoner... do you know NI? I'm not questioning that things have shifted since 1998 but if a hard Brexit resulted in an escalation of border security how could that not be anything else other than a massive potential cause of conflict?

I think Mr D's point may be - don't be melodramatic. But my retort would be: well, look at what's come before. If you lot bury your heads in the sand waffling on about technological white elephants and then the worst happens... well.

Or Kallisto maybe you're completely right! I might be overthinking this...

Either way - gloomy stuff

[dribbles]

Hmms, yep, maybe. But I sometimes wonder if some of Mr D's provocations are entirely genuine. It might be more of a sarcastic response to my initial question. But that's all it was: a question.

@ctd12345 - why do you think there's less potential / less appetite for this? I thought you were a Londoner... do you know NI? I'm not questioning that things have shifted since 1998 but if a hard Brexit resulted in an escalation of border security how could that not be anything else other than a massive potential cause of conflict?

I think Mr D's point may be - don't be melodramatic. But my retort would be: well, look at what's come before. If you lot bury your heads in the sand waffling on about technological white elephants and then the worst happens... well.

Or Kallisto maybe you're completely right! I might be overthinking this...

Either way - gloomy stuff

Actually I was reading this remain MP's tweet about the incident just prior to reading your post and my first thought was damn remainers blaming brexiteers and brexit for it.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeFreemanMP/...93157453918209

Apologies, I thought you were leading this topic the same way, and I intended to get in first...

[Demolitia]

You make it sound like the British are living a Charles Dickens fantasy. That's a ridiculous notion.

Sorry, my reply comes a bit late, but I didn't mean it to be that dramatic. There is a big lower middle crowd, especially in rural areas (and that's still a lot of people), which is concerned about their communities, jobs, future, healthcare and pensions, and don't see these concerns addressed by "London". So they took it on Brussels instead. Partly because Bxl has been blamed for everything for so long in shitty newspapers, and partly because they feel as remote as London to those people and they had a chance to voice their opinions on it. Those are real concerns and what I meant is that overall, the norwegian political and social system is richer and more transparent, so people there are not as divided as the brits are.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Actually I was reading this remain MP's tweet about the incident just prior to reading your post and my first thought was damn remainers blaming brexiteers and brexit for it.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeFreemanMP/...93157453918209

Apologies, I thought you were leading this topic the same way, and I intended to get in first...

Yep, sure... I was wondering.

No - it was literally just a question.

Fundamentally, if a Brexiteer could demonstrate to me the efficacy of a technological solution I'd be happy not to bring the issue up. I'd be more inclined to go with May's deal etc. But the problem is they can't, can they? Not to say it won't be possible x years down the line... but after what events and at what cost?

If you look at Freeman's subsequent posts he does go on to make this broader general point, rather than his original conflation.

[Demolitia]

Actually I was reading this remain MP's tweet about the incident just prior to reading your post and my first thought was damn remainers blaming brexiteers and brexit for it.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeFreemanMP/...93157453918209

Apologies, I thought you were leading this topic the same way, and I intended to get in first...

Any Brexit will undermine peace in Ireland

[dribbles]

Any Brexit will undermine peace in Ireland

However Brexit never caused the death of that journalist, terrorists did. We just suspend democracy because terrorists? Let them win?

[Demolitia]

However Brexit never caused the death of that journalist, terrorists did. We just suspend democracy because terrorists? Let them win?

Was it an issue before you started splitting the country for no reasonable reasons? Without any possible outcome besides splitting people's opinions more? You will remain attached to the EU, you will keep paying into the budget. You are just digging the divide between people without bring any workable solution. You are despicable.

[Huehuecoyotl]

However Brexit never caused the death of that journalist, terrorists did. We just suspend democracy because terrorists? Let them win?

I'm pretty sure that the GFA agreement came about because of democracy. But you are happy to ignore that, because for you "democracy" means "one precise point in 2016 and fuck everything else".

[Twdft]

All on the EU. If only they hadn't weaponised the Irish border during the Brexit negotiations. What did the EU expect?

This is evil even for your standards. Bloody disgusting.

[LeGin Tufnel]

/snip

Cheers… yep, ok. So - you’re saying that there would be problems but they might be limited and not command great popular support. I guess that’s positive? It's interesting to hear an informed opinion rather than speculation, which I'll freely admit I'm as guilty as anyone else is.

Meh…. I don’t know.

It would be rather ironic if the DUP, having spouted all this “anything for the Union” bullshit, had played a fundamental role in its downfall. A Remainer’s ultimate I Told You So: when Scotland and Northern Ireland secede.

[Elegiac]

Cheers… yep, ok. So - you’re saying that there would be problems but they might be limited and not command great popular support. I guess that’s positive? It's interesting to hear an informed opinion rather than speculation, which I'll freely admit I'm as guilty as anyone else is.

Meh…. I don’t know.

It would be rather ironic if the DUP, having spouted all this “anything for the Union” bullshit, had played a fundamental role in its downfall. A Remainer’s ultimate I Told You So: when Scotland and Northern Ireland secede.

> Scuttles Brexit
> Leaves Britain

The ultimate payback for the Potato Famine.