[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[dribbles]

No, but the racist twat who was leading UKIP at the time of its creation sure was.


Their European election launch was April 18th, so what happened on April 12th? Something noteable, or are you just getting your dates wrong in all the excitement.

Oh the racism card, I never saw that one coming, you are reflecting upon the colour of their skin? Ok, not being racist, I hadn't noticed that bit, telling that you did though. Is there something you have to admit to us?

On reflection perhaps it would have been better to have used a picture like this to refer to uncontrolled immigration because of the EU. The message would have been the same and just as effective without handing ammunition to remainers who have a problem with brown people.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

The party may have been conceived then but the foetus of it was not launched or born until 12th April. At which point I, amongst millions of others, switched from UKIP to the Brexit party.

So if Farage had not split from UKIP, you would have voted for Yaxley-Lennon or Sargon?

[dribbles]

So if Farage had not split from UKIP, you would have voted for Yaxley-Lennon or Sargon?

They would have been the only people offering a true brexit, so unfortunately yes. We all have a lot to thank Farage for in his decision to form the Brexit party.

Remainers, brexiteers, one and all.

[rathwathar]

Seeing ads like that makes you question how anyone could seriously deny that Brexit wasn't a racist and xenophobic campaign.

Disgusting as that poster is, it isn't really much to do with Brexit.

First, Farage was completely sidelined during the Brexit campaign, to the extent that when one of the networks allowed him to speak in a debate for Leave the official leave campaign protested. Even Brexiteers mostly viewed him as an embarrassment.

Second, the campaign didn't really focus on racism, it did mention immigration but it was very subtle by right-wing standards. It was dishonest, "350 million for the US" etc, but mostly focused on economics and sovereignity.

Third I do question how much remainers are less racist than their right-wing counterparts. They might not want to close the borders, but I do wonder how much of that is down to the fact that it keeps the price of their m&s strawberries down when they are picked by Polish laborers on a pound an hour sleeping 12 to a room. Their interest in the subject seems to wane when you talk about things like exploitation of foreign workers where doing something about it isn't in their direct economic interest.

Additionally, no one seemed to give a shit about our friends in the commonwealth - which virtually stopped while EU migration was thriving. I do believe we have a duty to those people after our ancestors messed up their countries.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Oh the racism card, I never saw that one coming, you are reflecting upon the colour of their skin? Ok, not being racist, I hadn't noticed that bit, telling that you did though. Is there something you have to admit to us?

I'm reflecting on Nigel Farage.

Do you find public spaces uncomfortable when people around you are speaking foreign languages? (Apart from your own ex-wife/ex-children, obviously).

Disgusting as that poster is, it isn't really much to do with Brexit.

First, Farage was completely sidelined during the Brexit campaign

Following this logic, the Brexit Party does not have much to do with Brexit either.

Additionally, no one seemed to give a shit about our friends in the commonwealth - which virtually stopped while EU migration was thriving. I do believe we have a duty to those people after our ancestors messed up their countries.

Presumably "lets leave the EU so we can replace EU migrants with commonwealth migrants (and then hostile environment deport them once we don't need them)" didn't have quite the same ring to it.

[Dhrizzle]

Isn't that just local council elections? I mean, do people not vote on other issues than Brexit anymore in the UK? Like local roads, council tax, getting rid of those power outages, attracting more tourists... that kinda stuff.

The way UK politics is broken the General Election is a tactical affair where we vote to keep the bastards we dislike the most out. If the bastards we tolerate in a GE piss us off we let them know by voting against them in a less important election.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh the racism card, I never saw that one coming, you are reflecting upon the colour of their skin? Ok, not being racist, I hadn't noticed that bit, telling that you did though. Is there something you have to admit to us?

On reflection perhaps it would have been better to have used a picture like this to refer to uncontrolled immigration because of the EU. The message would have been the same and just as effective without handing ammunition to remainers who have a problem with brown people.

Boxing day sale queues at the Trafford Centre?

[ranzino]

oh, it was so nice while it lasted, but it seems we are back with another series of groundhog days, as the negotiations are to be finished and nobody (read: not enough MPs to vote it through in Commons) will like the foreseeable results. so what will happen now ?

[Kiri]

oh, it was so nice while it lasted, but it seems we are back with another series of groundhog days, as the negotiations are to be finished and nobody (read: not enough MPs to vote it through in Commons) will like the foreseeable results. so what will happen now ?

Kicking the bin further down the road, as always?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Kicking the bin further down the road, as always?

Yeah, further can-kicking until the end of October, when the EU will grant the UK another 6 month extension.

[ranzino]

Yeah, further can-kicking until the end of October, when the EU will grant the UK another 6 month extension.

Cons and Labs will not tolerate their leaders any longer IMHO, something will happen.

[dribbles]

Boxing day sale queues at the Trafford Centre?

And the original wasn't too? How do you know? Or are you assuming because?

[Mekh]

And the original wasn't too? How do you know? Or are you assuming because?

I think his point was, that it is telling that your sort is willing to decontextualize a picture to pretend your narrative is even close to correct.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...sales-15596141

[Omega10]

Disgusting as that poster is, it isn't really much to do with Brexit.

First, Farage was completely sidelined during the Brexit campaign, to the extent that when one of the networks allowed him to speak in a debate for Leave the official leave campaign protested. Even Brexiteers mostly viewed him as an embarrassment.

Second, the campaign didn't really focus on racism, it did mention immigration but it was very subtle by right-wing standards. It was dishonest, "350 million for the US" etc, but mostly focused on economics and sovereignity.

Third I do question how much remainers are less racist than their right-wing counterparts. They might not want to close the borders, but I do wonder how much of that is down to the fact that it keeps the price of their m&s strawberries down when they are picked by Polish laborers on a pound an hour sleeping 12 to a room. Their interest in the subject seems to wane when you talk about things like exploitation of foreign workers where doing something about it isn't in their direct economic interest.

Additionally, no one seemed to give a shit about our friends in the commonwealth - which virtually stopped while EU migration was thriving. I do believe we have a duty to those people after our ancestors messed up their countries.

So your theory is that not only are the Brexit supporters racist and full of hatred, but so are the Remain supporters. Are people in the UK that bad off these days? Before Brexit, I was under the impression that the UK was doing fairly well. But this complete and total trashing of UK citizens, combined with May's recent speech and the comments to it, has me thinking otherwise.

[Iphie]

Yeah, further can-kicking until the end of October, when the EU will grant the UK another 6 month extension.

I know I've said it before but I don't think the EU will give another extension if this time there's no progress. Because at that point the EU will also realise that the UK is just acting in bad faith.

[ranzino]

the fog seems to lift and the charade of May's Brexit 2.0 should fail soon: Labour demands second ref or forget it

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...a-peoples-vote

Jeremy Corbyn will not be able to get enough of his MPs to back a Brexit deal without the promise of a second referendum, even if Theresa May makes a big offer on a customs union and workers’ rights this week, senior Labour figures believe.
Senior party sources said they believe two-thirds of Labour MPs, including several shadow cabinet ministers and many more frontbenchers, would refuse to back a deal without a people’s vote attached.

this should explode nicely in the cross-party-talks ....

[Drutt]

I know I've said it before but I don't think the EU will give another extension if this time there's no progress. Because at that point the EU will also realise that the UK is just acting in bad faith.

I don't think that's the case.

The longer the can keeps getting kicked down the road, the more likely it is that Brexit will never happen. The Brexiter talking heads know this, which is why they howl like wounded animals every time this happens.

Every passing week, more geriatric voters die and more young voters reach voting age. The original result was tight; with buyer's remorse kicking in and the slow effect of demographic changes due to aging at both ends of the scale, every passing week makes it more likely that Brexit will be cancelled if there is every another referendum.

I think it's just a matter of time at this point. If we were going to leave, we'd have done so already. Now the EU just needs to be patient and let inevitability take its course.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I don't think that's the case.

The longer the can keeps getting kicked down the road, the more likely it is that Brexit will never happen. The Brexiter talking heads know this, which is why they howl like wounded animals every time this happens.

Every passing week, more geriatric voters die and more young voters reach voting age. The original result was tight; with buyer's remorse kicking in and the slow effect of demographic changes due to aging at both ends of the scale, every passing week makes it more likely that Brexit will be cancelled if there is every another referendum.

I think it's just a matter of time at this point. If we were going to leave, we'd have done so already. Now the EU just needs to be patient and let inevitability take its course.

Yeah, every day that passes without the UK leaving the EU makes it less likely to happen. The EU knows this and it is why they give the UK more time, again and again.

Now that Labour is basically saying "no referendum, no deal. As you witnessed last month when Letwin-Cooper passed, Prime Minister: No deal, no Brexit" it really is nailing Brexit's coffin together (Brexit isn't in the coffin yet, but it's getting close). Right now, Brexit is on life-support. Unless a miracle happens (and no, the Brexit Party taking UKIP's 26% in the European Elections isn't a miracle) it won't survive.

There is no majority in the House for leaving without a deal. There is no majority for leaving with May's Deal (the only one on the table) either. There are quite a few MPs that don't want to leave the EU too. The only thing they have in common, is that whatever is happening, none of them are happy about it.

If (and this is a big if) May and Corbyn can push the WA with a legally binding customs union tacked on to it through Parliament, then that would mean the EU would have to agree on the new text, it would mean new negotiations and at the end of the negotiations another vote in the Commons to ratify the treaty if it wasn't adopted as-is.

May's Deal + CU + citizens' rights could pass and be acceptable to the EU. But I don't see it happening this year (the Commons have something like 8 weeks of holiday between now and October), and passng it would likely split both Labour and the Conservatives.

[AeneasBK]

Is that Ally Pally?

[Slant]

Yeah, every day that passes without the UK leaving the EU makes it less likely to happen. The EU knows this and it is why they give the UK more time, again and again.

Now that Labour is basically saying "no referendum, no deal. As you witnessed last month when Letwin-Cooper passed, Prime Minister: No deal, no Brexit" it really is nailing Brexit's coffin together (Brexit isn't in the coffin yet, but it's getting close). Right now, Brexit is on life-support. Unless a miracle happens (and no, the Brexit Party taking UKIP's 26% in the European Elections isn't a miracle) it won't survive.

There is no majority in the House for leaving without a deal. There is no majority for leaving with May's Deal (the only one on the table) either. There are quite a few MPs that don't want to leave the EU too. The only thing they have in common, is that whatever is happening, none of them are happy about it.

If (and this is a big if) May and Corbyn can push the WA with a legally binding customs union tacked on to it through Parliament, then that would mean the EU would have to agree on the new text, it would mean new negotiations and at the end of the negotiations another vote in the Commons to ratify the treaty if it wasn't adopted as-is.

May's Deal + CU + citizens' rights could pass and be acceptable to the EU. But I don't see it happening this year (the Commons have something like 8 weeks of holiday between now and October), and passng it would likely split both Labour and the Conservatives.

Not to rain on your parade here, but there's a detail wrong. The customs union? Not part of leaving. It's part of a new arrangement. The EU won't touch the customs union (or any other "new arrangement" deal) until the UK is out of the EU. I'm not even surprised that that detail still hasn't actually been understood. Whatever May and Corbyn are cooking up, it is on a premise that doesn't exist. It is another unicorn. An ugly one, too.

So no, the EU won't do new negotiations. Not through the backdoor like this. But... this won't enter their thick skulls until the EU reminds them of what they said 2 years ago. And then they'll be all shocked and surprised that the EU actually meant it and blame Brussels once more, because that's how it's always been.

[Xarkan]

Not to rain on your parade here, but there's a detail wrong. The customs union? Not part of leaving. It's part of a new arrangement. The EU won't touch the customs union (or any other "new arrangement" deal) until the UK is out of the EU. I'm not even surprised that that detail still hasn't actually been understood. Whatever May and Corbyn are cooking up, it is on a premise that doesn't exist. It is another unicorn. An ugly one, too.

So no, the EU won't do new negotiations. Not through the backdoor like this. But... this won't enter their thick skulls until the EU reminds them of what they said 2 years ago. And then they'll be all shocked and surprised that the EU actually meant it and blame Brussels once more, because that's how it's always been.

Where would the difficulty in a custom union be though

Take the norway deal as a document, seach and replace norway with united kingdom, hit print, done

Sure it gives a lot of bonus deals

But they would get all that and not be in the EU, is that not what they want?