[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Noradin]

Looking on page 2 - the crux of it is that 12% of those who are planning to vote in the EP elections think that either the Brexit Party is anti-Brexit, neither anti-Brexit or pro-Brexit, or don't know.

They might simply mean that Farage is a populist who pretents to want Brexit because that is what makes him popular, but doesn't really mean it.

[dribbles]

Our candidate in Peterborough has just been announced.

https://www.mikegreene4peterborough.com/

Surprising isn't it that a self-made businessman is so pro brexit when because of it the economy will tank. What's the betting within a couple of days the bookies have him as favourite?

Who on the remain side is up against him or they all given up?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Our candidate in Peterborough has just been announced.

https://www.mikegreene4peterborough.com/

Surprising isn't it that a self-made businessman is so pro brexit when because of it the economy will tank. What's the betting within a couple of days the bookies have him as favourite?

Who on the remain side is up against him or they all given up?

Wow, a middle aged white man. Look at the surprise on my face.

[Pann]

Our candidate in Peterborough has just been announced.

https://www.mikegreene4peterborough.com/

Surprising isn't it that a self-made businessman is so pro brexit when because of it the economy will tank. What's the betting within a couple of days the bookies have him as favourite?

Who on the remain side is up against him or they all given up?

At least they've chosen a local and not parachuted Farage in to try to claim the glory. After having a read through his web page it seems that the Brexit Party are rather light on policy.

[Kronik85]

I'm not sure that is particularly bad news or worthy of criticism. The Peterborough elections runs the risk of becoming overshadowed by Brexit and a proxy for public support for a 2nd ref. (although both sides will claim victory regardless of the result) when, no doubt, there are more pressing issues that need addressing within Peterborough.

I really don't think that it is the best interests of the people of Peterborough for their election to be hijacked by two candidates that quite literally no policy other than Brexit being a good or bad thing. I hope whatever happens they vote for the most capable candidate, the one who will have their best interests at heart and not be blinded by empty soundbites.

It's a by election for an MP in Westminster right? I understand your point and in normal circumstances I'd somewhat agree but being a single issue MP isn't unheard of and whether they are any good or not on a local level purely depends on the individual. When Blackpool South was my ward our MP was Gordon Marsden since 97 and has spent approximately 5 minutes in Blackpool since then. Is he innately better for Blackpool because he's Labour?

The simple fact of the matter is that Brexit dominates everything in Parliament right now so selecting an MP around Brexit in what will be a very short spell before the next GE doesn't seem too outlandish to me. If Remain parties actually want to win, this is the shit they need to be learning how to do.

[Pann]

It's a by election for an MP in Westminster right? I understand your point and in normal circumstances I'd somewhat agree but being a single issue MP isn't unheard of and whether they are any good or not on a local level purely depends on the individual. When Blackpool South was my ward our MP was Gordon Marsden since 97 and has spent approximately 5 minutes in Blackpool since then. Is he innately better for Blackpool because he's Labour?

The simple fact of the matter is that Brexit dominates everything in Parliament right now so selecting an MP around Brexit in what will be a very short spell before the next GE doesn't seem too outlandish to me. If Remain parties actually want to win, this is the shit they need to be learning how to do.

It is. A single issue party or MP can be effective but surely it would be better for someone like the Lib Dems to be campaigning for local issues that affect the people of Peterborough?

I don't doubt there are many people in Blackpool who do believe that Marsden is better for Blackpool simply because he is Labour but his performance, or lack of it, is an issue of it being safe seat. If MPs have no fear that the electorate will vote them out then the electorate shouldn't be too surprised when they don't work that hard for them.

It does and it is a bad thing. Whatever happens in Peterborough will have no influence on how Parliament proceeds with Brexit - if the Brexit Party gets in we will not suddenly leave on WTO terms and if the People's Vote candidate gets in (which is unlikely in a 60% leave constituency) May will not suddenly arrange a 2nd ref. So wouldn't it be better if the more grown up parties got on with it and campaigned for doing what's best for the local area and leave the Brexit party to campaign on empty soundbites?

[dribbles]

At least they've chosen a local and not parachuted Farage in to try to claim the glory. After having a read through his web page it seems that the Brexit Party are rather light on policy.

Well with the former main parties engineering the destruction of democracy I'm not sure people want any policy other than Brexit at the moment. At least they could find a quality candidate which is more than Chukkas chums can do. Is that the only reason why, but were rejected, they offered a coalition with other scarce remainers? In fact it is hard to find anyone who is going to vote for the Cuks let alone a damn candidate.

Not surprising given a new poll of almost 50,000 people released today puts the brexit party on 86% !!!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...on-theresa-may

Of the three main UK parties, the anti-Brexit Liberal Democrats, who saw a huge surge in popularity at last week’s local council elections, came out on top but still managed only 5 percent. The poll put Change UK and Ukip on 3 percent each, the Green Party on 1 percent and ‘other’ on 1 percent.

A total of 48,465 people took part in the poll

Those rare as hen's teeth remaining remainers have such a mountain to climb...

[Dizzeeyooo]

Not surprising given a new poll of almost 50,000 people released today puts the brexit party on 86% !!!

14% of people that choose to visit www.express.co.uk are not planning to vote for Farage - the real shock of that "poll".

Any more thoughts on Claire Fox @dribbles? Or are you still excited to vote for a party that promotes a pedophilia and terrorism supporting candidate?

[Kronik85]

It is. A single issue party or MP can be effective but surely it would be better for someone like the Lib Dems to be campaigning for local issues that affect the people of Peterborough?

That depends on how much bandwidth Brexit eats up for the electorate of Peterborough. It could be an effective strategy for any of the parties to campaign on local issues rather than Brexit, but it will only work if that's what the people of Peterborough are interested in when they are voting for an MP.

I don't doubt there are many people in Blackpool who do believe that Marsden is better for Blackpool simply because he is Labour but his performance, or lack of it, is an issue of it being safe seat. If MPs have no fear that the electorate will vote them out then the electorate shouldn't be too surprised when they don't work that hard for them.

Most certainly. It will be a good ward to watch come election night because I believe he's actually an open Remainer in a heavily Brexit constituency now. So we will see how safe "safe seats" are in the Brexit landscape (that is if we haven't left before the next GE).

It does and it is a bad thing. Whatever happens in Peterborough will have no influence on how Parliament proceeds with Brexit - if the Brexit Party gets in we will not suddenly leave on WTO terms and if the People's Vote candidate gets in (which is unlikely in a 60% leave constituency) May will not suddenly arrange a 2nd ref. So wouldn't it be better if the more grown up parties got on with it and campaigned for doing what's best for the local area and leave the Brexit party to campaign on empty soundbites?

All true but looking at the reactions to the locals and this almost existential need that has gripped MPs to treat any vote as some kind of weathervane on Brexit it seems unlikely that this by-election will be treated any differently. A win for either side will matter in Parliament because MPs will be trying to ascertain which side is indeed on the right side of history....then when it's not what they hoped then the answer will crystalise in the form of your own philosophy.

[dribbles]

14% of people that choose to visit www.express.co.uk are not planning to vote for Farage - the real shock of that "poll".

Any more thoughts on Claire Fox @dribbles? Or are you still excited to vote for a party that promotes a pedophilia and terrorism supporting candidate?

I am sure those few 14% can be converted...

As regards your silly comments about Claire Fox why don't you level your defamatory allegations directly to her as you seem a little, I have to say unhealthily, fixated? Or perhaps you would like me to copy her in on them, just let me know. You can do it yourself though right now... My guess is you won't, like most remainers all mouth and no trousers.

https://twitter.com/Fox_Claire

Before making your decision some friendly advice should you wish to proceed. Lawyer up.

[Elegiac]

I am sure those few 14% can be converted...

As regards your silly comments about Claire Fox why don't you level your defamatory allegations directly to her as you seem a little, I have to say unhealthily, fixated? Or perhaps you would like me to copy her in on them, just let me know. You can do it yourself though right now... My guess is you won't, like most remainers all mouth and no trousers.

https://twitter.com/Fox_Claire

Before making your decision some friendly advice should you wish to proceed. Lawyer up.

Claire Fox and the Brexit Party carry water for pedophiles and terrorists.

Sue me. :jazz hands:

[Dizzeeyooo]

I am sure those few 14% can be converted...

Why are they reading the express if they are not already converted is the real question.

As regards your silly comments about Claire Fox why don't you level your defamatory allegations directly to her as you seem a little, I have to say unhealthily, fixated? Or perhaps you would like me to copy her in on them, just let me know. You can do it yourself though right now... My guess is you won't, like most remainers all mouth and no trousers.

https://twitter.com/Fox_Claire

Before making your decision some friendly advice should you wish to proceed. Lawyer up.

If i'm fixated on anything, it's getting you to actually reply to an actual point. If you believe in Claire Fox and everything she stands for, that's your choice - but if you do what you normally do and try to completely ignore something you don't like, then it seems only fair to keep reminding you about what you are missing

[Kronik85]

In today's news!

Jeremy Corbyn concedes the EU elections to the Brexit Party. Word to the wise Jez, both Leavers and Remainers think your full of shit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48208846

But my fave is definitely Johnny Mercer putting himself on the market.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48209591

For the low low price of just £350 an hour Nigel Farage can have his first Brexit Party MP (yeah he was a Remainer but he's changed his mind and he used to shoot people for a living!).

[Pann]

Well with the former main parties engineering the destruction of democracy I'm not sure people want any policy other than Brexit at the moment.

Doesn't it worry you that despite apparently standing on the policy of Brexit they refuse to clarify what this means and how they plan to achieve the, so called, clean break Brexit?

How can Nigel and pals be worthy of your's and other's votes when they won't tell you what you are voting for? It seems to me that the Brexit Party is every bit as bad as the self-serving, metropolitan Westminster elite they claim to be against.

- - - Updated - - -

That depends on how much bandwidth Brexit eats up for the electorate of Peterborough. It could be an effective strategy for any of the parties to campaign on local issues rather than Brexit, but it will only work if that's what the people of Peterborough are interested in when they are voting for an MP.

The point I am (badly) trying to make is that I am not sure that parties who have experience in parliament, and in the LD's case; government, pulling out of an election to support a candidate that appears to have just one (unworkable?) policy in order to fight another candidate who quite literally does not have a single policy is a good idea.

If you live in Peterborough you can still register your opposition to Brexit by voting LD or Green and you will be supporting a candidate that is backed by an experienced party who are capable of dealing with more than Brexit.

[Kronik85]

The point I am (badly) trying to make is that I am not sure that parties who have experience in parliament, and in the LD's case; government, pulling out of an election to support a candidate that appears to have just one (unworkable?) policy in order to fight another candidate who quite literally does not have a single policy is a good idea.

If you live in Peterborough you can still register your opposition to Brexit by voting LD or Green and you will be supporting a candidate that is backed by an experienced party who are capable of dealing with more than Brexit.

This is my main issue with voting Green over Lib Dem in a GE or local election really so I'm not disagreeing with you. But the reason this Peterborough stuff erks me is that this is a throw away by-election for the most part, whoever wins will be fighting an election proper very soon whether we Brexit or not and it would be encouraging to see parties cooperating on what is, atm, the core of their platforms. It's what makes Change UK such a terrible joke of a party. "Hey we are Change UK and we are going to be doing something different than the old politics by doing exactly what the old politics does!", fuck off.

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Also the Peoples Vote Campaign just did a broadside on Labour's CU Brexit plan.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48213055

Looks like they still had some ammo left over so they took a shot at the SS Brexit too.

Labour MP and People's Vote supporter Rachel Reeves said a customs union exit would not be as damaging as a no-deal exit or the PM's current deal.

"But it is a mistake to regard it as a soft option, let alone a fix-all for a political crisis that has its roots in promises that can't be met," she added.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Doesn't it worry you that despite apparently standing on the policy of Brexit they refuse to clarify what this means and how they plan to achieve the, so called, clean break Brexit?

How can Nigel and pals be worthy of your's and other's votes when they won't tell you what you are voting for? It seems to me that the Brexit Party is every bit as bad as the self-serving, metropolitan Westminster elite they claim to be against.

The Brexit Party is a perfect representation of Brexit. They are promising to do something without explaining what they are going to do, how they will do it, or what it will mean. So it's impossible to argue against them, because they aren't holding a position you can argue against. It's like trying to catch smoke. But there will be plenty of idiots willing to believe that it will be what they want, so they will vote for it regardless. And in the meantime Farage will make money out of it.

[dribbles]

Doesn't it worry you that despite apparently standing on the policy of Brexit they refuse to clarify what this means and how they plan to achieve the, so called, clean break Brexit?

How can Nigel and pals be worthy of your's and other's votes when they won't tell you what you are voting for? It seems to me that the Brexit Party is every bit as bad as the self-serving, metropolitan Westminster elite they claim to be against.

I'm not sure the Brexit party could be any clearer but it is a valid question for those late to the party. Perhaps that's why their chairman has had a pinned tweet up for the last 2 days.

A vote for The Brexit Party on 23 May is a vote for:

A WTO Brexit

A vote for us is a vote against:

paying EU £39bn for nothing

https://twitter.com/TiceRichard

If only the other parties had such clarity...

How do they achieve that? They put the UK chequebook away and say toodlepip to the EU, job done.

[Pann]

This is my main issue with voting Green over Lib Dem in a GE or local election really so I'm not disagreeing with you. But the reason this Peterborough stuff erks me is that this is a throw away by-election for the most part, whoever wins will be fighting an election proper very soon whether we Brexit or not and it would be encouraging to see parties cooperating on what is, atm, the core of their platforms. It's what makes Change UK such a terrible joke of a party. "Hey we are Change UK and we are going to be doing something different than the old politics by doing exactly what the old politics does!", fuck off.

- - - Updated - - -

Also the Peoples Vote Campaign just did a broadside on Labour's CU Brexit plan.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48213055

Looks like they still had some ammo left over so they took a shot at the SS Brexit too.

The thing is we don't know if we will be fighting another GE any time soon, I would say that as it stands it is in neither of the main parties' interests to push for one. So what happens if Peterborough is fought solely on Brexit and in two years time the winner is using PMQ's to prattle on about a clean break Brexit or a people's vote when there could be pressing issues in Peterborough that need dealing with, like school or healthcare funding, housing, etc?

Already we are in a situation where parliament is paralysed by Brexit and now the Peterborough by-election is in danger of being hijacked by it which seems like a pointless distraction as even if the election is fought on Brexit it will make no difference in the grand scheme of things and both sides of the debate will claim victory regardless of the result.

I think the people of Peterborough deserve better.

Change UK seem to be the emperor's new clothes.

I am glad that the whole CU plan is finally coming under scrutiny. I think it is terrible that it has been allowed to be seen as a solution to the current Brexit impasse and border problems for as long as it has.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not sure the Brexit party could be any clearer but it is a valid question for those late to the party. Perhaps that's why their chairman has had a pinned tweet up for the last 2 days.

A vote for The Brexit Party on 23 May is a vote for:

A WTO Brexit

A vote for us is a vote against:

paying EU £39bn for nothing

https://twitter.com/TiceRichard

If only the other parties had such clarity...

How do they achieve that? They put the UK chequebook away and say toodlepip to the EU, job done.

That is nothing more empty soundbites and fantasy. And you've missed out "competent Brexit negotiators & Brexit Party MEPs at the table" that a vote for the Brexit party would apparently deliver. Why would negotiators be needed if we are going to leave with no deal?

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Interesting developments regarding Peterborough.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status...16853566779393

[Kronik85]

The thing is we don't know if we will be fighting another GE any time soon, I would say that as it stands it is in neither of the main parties' interests to push for one. So what happens if Peterborough is fought solely on Brexit and in two years time the winner is using PMQ's to prattle on about a clean break Brexit or a people's vote when there could be pressing issues in Peterborough that need dealing with, like school or healthcare funding, housing, etc?

Everyone but the Cons wants a GE atm, which is a great argument for saying we wont be seeing one lol but every party seems to be setting their boards to fight one soon, including the Cons (hence trying desperately to ditch May). Then if Brexit is still an issue in 2 years time then it won't matter whats going on or who represents Peterborough in Parliament because Brexit will still be eating up all the bandwidth and the MP for Peterborough won't be able to help their constituency anyway unless MPs have some sweeping powers I'm unaware of whilst in their constituencies so it's moot.

Already we are in a situation where parliament is paralysed by Brexit and now the Peterborough by-election is in danger of being hijacked by it which seems like a pointless distraction as even if the election is fought on Brexit it will make no difference in the grand scheme of things and both sides of the debate will claim victory regardless of the result.

True but I'd like Remain factions to start working together and right now they aren't.

I think the people of Peterborough deserve better.

You've obviously never been to Peterborough. (joke!...sort of :P)

Change UK seem to be the emperor's new clothes.

Yup.

I am glad that the whole CU plan is finally coming under scrutiny. I think it is terrible that it has been allowed to be seen as a solution to the current Brexit impasse and border problems for as long as it has.

It's due some scrutiny for sure, where did we end on CU vs future Trade Agreements?

[Slant]

The Brexit Party is a perfect representation of Brexit. They are promising to do something without explaining what they are going to do, how they will do it, or what it will mean. So it's impossible to argue against them, because they aren't holding a position you can argue against. It's like trying to catch smoke. But there will be plenty of idiots willing to believe that it will be what they want, so they will vote for it regardless. And in the meantime Farage will make money out of it.

And they're also not even capable of delivering their promise. This is an EU election. Wtf do they think they can accomplish in the EUP? Fucking trolls.