[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Tories may end up with just two MPs in Parliament.

But the truly astonishing finding of our poll is the 89% of Brexit Party voters who say they would pick Mr Farage in a General Election.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...nigel-16165569

And that's from the pro remain mirror! Only a few days now until the majority speak once again. That deserves a Tickety Tock

But the majority won't be able to choose Farage in a GE, because he won't be standing in their constituency. He would also have to resign as MEP to take a seat in Westminster.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Here is a nice little opinium graph showing the peril democracy denying remainers face and the growth in favour of a no deal...

February 2019

Delay/Cancel Brexit 49%
Go for a no deal 38%

May 2019

Delay/Cancel Brexit 45%
Go for no deal 46%



OK it's just one poll, so how about another from comres...

Tories may end up with just two MPs in Parliament.

But the truly astonishing finding of our poll is the 89% of Brexit Party voters who say they would pick Mr Farage in a General Election.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...nigel-16165569

And that's from the pro remain mirror! Only a few days now until the majority speak once again. That deserves a Tickety Tock

Ladies and gentlemen, once again dribbles makes demands about "democracy" as he links a poll that shows the people that want a no-deal Brexit are in the minority. Utter lack of self awareness, simple lack of intelligence? Or is he just so used to the people that he talks to not being able to see through his threadbare positions?

3/10 dribbles. Must try harder.

[sircaw]

I wager he will be the last generation thinking it's funny. I think a lot of British people actually cringe at it as much as everyone else does. It goes so far that anytime I'm in the UK and meet new people, I can tell they want to ask questions about WW2 but are uncomfortable talking about it to a German. They think I might actually jump in their face or something, kinda like the Fawlty Towers skit. It's unfortunate, because I think history is highly interesting, especially when you have access to other perspectives.

For instance, Germans aren't really shown how much damage was inflicted to Britain. Oh, we know about the Battle of Britain, but aside from "Oh, and a few V2s flew over there and basically it was a nonsense idea to begin with..." there's much more talk about France, the Russian border and of course our favourite (/s) topic in school: The Holocaust.

I remember my Dad telling my that when he in the scouts they went on a tour all around Europe. They ended up being in Berlin i think it was on the west side and they having drinks in one off the bars. There was a huge fight and one off the old German chaps said he coming back with a gun to shoot them all because he had relatives in Dresden and wanted to kill as many English as he could. My Dad and the others made a hastily retreat. This was back in 1967. I remember my dad telling me this story when i was like ten years old or something. I never really understood it back then and it only really made sense to me when i ended up reading Slaughter house Five by Kurt Vonnegut probably ten years or so ago, tremendous novel i will add.

My father was born in 1946, guess you could say one off those baby boomers, i just found the story very sad as he and his mates had nothing to do with the war and yet were being targeted for just be English.

I suppose healing takes time and events like Dresden should not, can not be forgotten.

[Slant]

I remember my Dad telling my that when he in the scouts they went on a tour all around Europe. They ended up being in Berlin i think it was on the west side and they having drinks in one off the bars. There was a huge fight and one off the old German chaps said he coming back with a gun to shoot them all because he had relatives in Dresden and wanted to kill as many English as he could. My Dad and the others made a hastily retreat. This was back in 1967. I remember my dad telling me this story when i was like ten years old or something. I never really understood it back then and it only really made sense to me when i ended up reading Slaughter house Five by Kurt Vonnegut probably ten years or so ago, tremendous novel i will add.

My father was born in 1946, guess you could say one off those baby boomers, i just found the story very sad as he and his mates had nothing to do with the war and yet were being targeted for just be English.

I suppose healing takes time and events like Dresden should not, can not be forgotten.

To be fair, the main reason it shouldn't be forgotten is so dipshits don't get the idea they can get away with genocide or picking a fight with the entire bloody continent. Yes, AfD, I'm talking to you. :P

[snothlord]

To be fair, the main reason it shouldn't be forgotten is so dipshits don't get the idea they can get away with genocide or picking a fight with the entire bloody continent. Yes, AfD, I'm talking to you. :P

You seem to enjoy picking a fight with Britain.

Historically your nation tries to kill everyone in Europe every thirty years or so, which means you are "due" given when reunification happened. I've never trusted you people, you should have never been allowed to form a single nation again. The afd just state openly what the rest of you will eventually go along with.

[Slant]

You seem to enjoy picking a fight with Britain.

Historically your nation tries to kill everyone in Europe every thirty years or so, which means you are "due" given when reunification happened. I've never trusted you people, you should have never been allowed to form a single nation again. The afd just state openly what the rest of you will eventually go along with.

Wow, big words from such a little account... :P

Come on, you just got warmed up, don't waste the little time you have until the 50/50 chance of a banhammer hits your ass.

[snothlord]

Wow, big words from such a little account... :P

Come on, you just got warmed up, don't waste the little time you have until the 50/50 chance of a banhammer hits your ass.

Yes and it will then take me a further 10 seconds to set up another account.

How long will it take you and your countrymen to install the Third Reich on some pretext?

[Kallisto]

Ah the joys of middle england education. Still blaming the Germans for first world war when it was a complex situation where blame was shared.

[dribbles]

Could you not have the arrogance to think you can speak for all British people, please? Thanks. And stop saying shit like "EU Axis", it makes you look even more retarded than your regular posts do.


Also this.

I am not purporting to speak only for all British people but share the same view as 100's of millions of EU citizens continent wide. Please don't belittle that many people. Ask the ordinary impoverished Greek people, ask the debt ridden for life average Italian people, ask the EE nations/the Visegrad group, and so on what they really think of and those who hold the true power in the EU.

This fallacy of EU unity as it falls apart before our eyes is quite ridiculous.

And as for WW2 I'll give you an anecdote as to why a few mad men anointed somewhere in Europe will never succeed in ruling a continent.

I lived in France for a few years on and off and I asked a now life long French friend why the English are only tolerated there rather than welcomed with open arms. His response was that it is hard to be 100% comfortable, even now, with countrymen whose ancestors participated in the 100 year war. That finished between England and France in 1453 ffs. The idea that, in comparison, recent events and those responsible for WW2 and their descendents will ever be totally forgiven in my lifetime, my children's lifetimes and my childrens childrens lifetime is total nonsense. Perhaps in 500 years as in my French/English example and memories fade through many generations we will tolerate each other once again.

Just as an aside from all that perhaps you can help me out here. I hear rumours Juncker is on his way out as our EU President, is that true? Who is the new one, has that even been decided yet and by who? Will we find out before he or her addresses the continent from a podium as the anointed EU leader? Does anyone get to vote for the new President?

I think it was the late great Tony Benn who once said that if ordinary people don't have the power to remove and elect their leader they don't live in a democracy.

I am glad I do. Can you say the same eurochums?

[ranzino]

.....
Just as an aside from all that perhaps you can help me out here. I hear rumours Juncker is on his way out as our EU President, is that true? Who is the new one, has that even been decided yet and by who? Will we find out before he or her addresses the continent from a podium as the anointed EU leader? Does anyone get to vote for the new President?

I think it was the late great Tony Benn who once said that if ordinary people don't have the power to remove and elect their leader they don't live in a democracy.

I am glad I do. Can you say the same eurochums?

Each new President is nominated by the European Council and formally elected by the European Parliament, for a five-year term.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presid...ean_Commission

in this case PM Cameron was part of nomination (last election of Juncker was before PM May took office) and MEPs agreed. if Cameron was against it and Farage too: sucks to be british, you were overruled by democracy.
and by the way: nobody elected PM Cameron or May directly; happens in other countries too with their heads of government.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Just as an aside from all that perhaps you can help me out here. I hear rumours Juncker is on his way out as our EU President, is that true? Who is the new one, has that even been decided yet and by who? Will we find out before he or her addresses the continent from a podium as the anointed EU leader? Does anyone get to vote for the new President?

The President of the EU is recommended by the European Council (i.e. the heads of member states - for example you voted for Theresa May's voice on the Council) and voted on by the European Parliament (i.e. the people the you will be voting for next week). The nomination and confirmatory vote happens after the European Elections.

[Huehuecoyotl]

I think it was the late great Tony Benn who once said that if ordinary people don't have the power to remove and elect their leader they don't live in a democracy.

I am glad I do. Can you say the same eurochums?

After Cameron stood down, May took over. Nobody voted for her as leader. Then after the last election the Tories didn't get a majority, yet here we are with May as leader. Once again your personal definition of what democracy means is highly amusing for the rest of us.

[dribbles]

Each new President is nominated by the European Council and formally elected by the European Parliament, for a five-year term.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presid...ean_Commission

in this case PM Cameron was part of nomination (last election of Juncker was before PM May took office) and MEPs agreed. if Cameron was against it and Farage too: sucks to be british, you were overruled by democracy.
and by the way: nobody elected PM Cameron or May directly; happens in other countries too with their heads of government.

Doesn't it make you feel bad that you have no voice in who is nominated? Do you even know without looking who the candidates are on the list of nominations to be our next great leader? So when does Junker leave and the new as yet unknown get anoninted?

The President of the EU is recommended by the European Council (i.e. the heads of member states - for example you voted for Theresa May's voice on the Council) and voted on by the European Parliament (i.e. the people the you will be voting for next week). The nomination and confirmatory vote happens after the European Elections.

What can you do if you don't like who is recommended? You just have to accept that?

When is all this happening is it soon, surely not this Thursday? Are we just going to wake up on Friday and some new bod that nobody currently knows will appear on TV and say "hello eurochums, just to let you know I am your new great leader now bend the knee to my wishes for the next 5 years until my best mate takes over from me"

You know that doesn't sound very democratic to me.

[ranzino]

The President of the EU is recommended by the European Council (i.e. the heads of member states - for example you voted for Theresa May's voice on the Council) and voted on by the European Parliament (i.e. the people the you will be voting for next week). The nomination and confirmatory vote happens after the European Elections.

Council and EP vote by majority, so it is perfect possible none of UK's candidates will become next President. in 2014 Cameron objected to Juncker, but as he and Orban (from Hungary) were the only ones, Juncker was nominated.

....

You know that doesn't sound very democratic to me.

nobody likes PM May, but she is still there (for some weeks) ?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

What can you do if you don't like who is recommended? You just have to accept that?

When is all this happening is it soon, surely not this Thursday? Are we just going to wake up on Friday and some new bod that nobody currently knows will appear on TV and say "hello eurochums, just to let you know I am your new great leader now bend the knee to my wishes for the next 5 years until my best mate takes over from me"

You know that doesn't sound very democratic to me.

If the representatives you elect next weekend do not approve, then they tell the commission to find another candidate.

[Gibblewink]

Oh - Now that we have you Dribbles, would you care to explain the democratic process by which members of the House of Lords are elected? Or the mechanisms in place to remove them should their views stray from that of the populace? I mean there surely cannot be an undemocratic institution in place in the UK.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Oh - Now that we have you Dribbles, would you care to explain the democratic process by which members of the House of Lords are elected? Or the mechanisms in place to remove them should their views stray from that of the populace? I mean there surely cannot be an undemocratic institution in place in the UK.

Or how Theresa May became a democratically elected PM in 2016

[dribbles]

If the representatives you elect next weekend do not approve, then they tell the commission to find another candidate.

Can I stand as a candidate? I'm not besties with the outgoing Juncker, will that be a problem?

Oh - Now that we have you Dribbles, would you care to explain the democratic process by which members of the House of Lords are elected? Or the mechanisms in place to remove them should their views stray from that of the populace? I mean there surely cannot be an undemocratic institution in place in the UK.

The Lords are advisory only, a group with centuries of life and political experience who offer opinions. Nothing more or less.

[ranzino]

If the representatives you elect next weekend do not approve, then they tell the commission to find another candidate.

also means UK will have to lift their collective butts and vote next week or their influence is zilch. and btw: UK even in case of later Brexit will still be faced with the next President, as he/she is EU's representant to them.
and Tories will vote PM and nominate the next President and do so without GE; they do not face any democracy until then. so what ?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Can I stand as a candidate? I'm not besties with the outgoing Juncker, will that be a problem?

Gain decades of experience dealing with international negotiations and policy decisions at the highest levels of government and yes, you could be selected.