[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[rda]

What I wanted to say was that those things they voted to change were so by design by the UK government, which could have done something about them but instead pretended the EU wouldn't let them. Leaving the EU made their problems worse.

I disagree. As I said, the EU viewed all added restrictions onto the freedom of movement as extraordinary and temporary. The people who voted Leave wanted complete control over the freedom of movement of people. The disagreement was fundamental.

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He wrote "you" not "I".
Do you need help finding a dictionary so you can look up the different meanings of "you"?

(He was referring to the US. I understood him perfectly well. I don't understand why you are bringing this up, this is a non-issue.)

[Dizzeeyooo]

People who voted Leave felt the UK was being flooded with immigrants and felt that leaving the EU would allow the UK to impose stricter controls on that.

The people who voted Leave wanted complete control over the freedom of movement of people. The disagreement was fundamental.

You might need to update your opinion on this - as it's gradually become obvious that overall immigration into the UK will increase after Brexit, most leavers (outside of the UKIPpy "happy to be blatantly racist" branch) have rationalized that by now denying the vote was anything to do with immigration in the first place.

[Shalcker]

You might need to update your opinion on this - as it's gradually become obvious that overall immigration into the UK will increase after Brexit, most leavers (outside of the UKIPpy "happy to be blatantly racist" branch) have rationalized that by now denying the vote was anything to do with immigration in the first place.

"Control" and "more migration" are not mutually exclusive.

Control is about being able to adjust up and down according to needs of the moment.

Difference between getting Polish workers because you need more workers and getting Polish workers just because they like UK salaries and can out-compete natives with lower demands.

[Noradin]

I disagree. As I said, the EU viewed all added restrictions onto the freedom of movement as extraordinary and temporary. The people who voted Leave wanted complete control over the freedom of movement of people. The disagreement was fundamental.

Can you list those those restrictions or provide a source or is your source som British tabloid? Maybe the Tory party?

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(He was referring to the US. I understood him perfectly well. I don't understand why you are bringing this up, this is a non-issue.)

You made it an issue by pretending not to understand :P

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"Control" and "more migration" are not mutually exclusive.

Control is about being able to adjust up and down according to needs of the moment.

Difference between getting Polish workers because you need more workers and getting Polish workers just because they like UK salaries and can out-compete natives with lower demands.

The UK government could have done this, but they chose not to.
They chose not to reduce immigration, and since there was not enough immigration from the EU they even brought immigrants in from all over the world in ever greater numbers.

Since those immigrants are desperately needed the numbers won't go down in future.

What you are doing is like pretending you could choose not to drink anything and thus vote to get rid of the clean water supply.

[Huehuecoyotl]

And I am beyond happy at that...

Just no. Foreigners from the EU shouldn't be able to vote in UK elections any more than people from Swaziland can.

They should vote in their own damn country.

Another bit of the real dribbles leaking through his cheeky chappy facade of the idiot Brexiteer. Rascist and fascist to the core. It's always a bit unnerving when this happens, I find. Like a clown suddenly throwing lurid insults at his audience.

But we know you aren't happy about certain people having a voice, dribbles. The people that weren't eligible to vote in 2016 should be ignored, according to you. The people that voted remain should be ignored. The people that voted leave but only wanted a Norway style deal, should be ignored. The people that voted leave but have since changed their mind should be ignored.

The only small minority of the people in this country that you think shouldn't be ignored are the ones that voted leave in 2016 and wanted to leave at any cost. Even if they are dead now. That's your sad, lonely little viewpoint summed up. You are so desperate to "win" that you are prepared to ignore any number of people to pretend that you have. I can't wait until Boris your saviour turns on you as his track-record shows he will. I reckon I will be able to hear the sound of your head exploding from here.

[dribbles]

Another bit of the real dribbles leaking through his cheeky chappy facade of the idiot Brexiteer. Rascist and fascist to the core. It's always a bit unnerving when this happens, I find. Like a clown suddenly throwing lurid insults at his audience.

But we know you aren't happy about certain people having a voice, dribbles. The people that weren't eligible to vote in 2016 should be ignored, according to you. The people that voted remain should be ignored. The people that voted leave but only wanted a Norway style deal, should be ignored. The people that voted leave but have since changed their mind should be ignored.

The only small minority of the people in this country that you think shouldn't be ignored are the ones that voted leave in 2016 and wanted to leave at any cost. Even if they are dead now. That's your sad, lonely little viewpoint summed up. You are so desperate to "win" that you are prepared to ignore any number of people to pretend that you have. I can't wait until Boris your saviour turns on you as his track-record shows he will. I reckon I will be able to hear the sound of your head exploding from here.

You are being silly. If everyone is allowed to vote everywhere in the EU, how would say Germans feel if the UK government shipped over 17.4 million people, of a certain persuasion, there temporarily just to vote in their elections to further any UK government EU disintegration plans? I exaggerate of course but the point is valid.

As for curbing Boris Johnsons pro EU feels, thats what our Nigel is getting so many votes for. With the Brexit party snapping at his Tory heels any thoughts of Boris moving in that direction will be moderated by those fears...

Of course all this could have been avoided if sore loser remainers hadn't stirred the Brexit pot and honoured the result of the democratic 2016 referendum.

You will be dragged kicking and squealing out of the EU, mark my words. Democracy insists on it...

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

You are being silly. If everyone is allowed to vote everywhere in the EU, how would say Germans feel if the UK government shipped over 17.4 million people, of a certain persuasion, there temporarily just to vote in their elections to further any UK government EU disintegration plans? I exaggerate of course but the point is valid.

The EU elections are not for national politicians. Again, you are ignorant of this very simple fact.

As for curbing Boris Johnsons pro EU feels, thats what our Nigel is getting so many votes for. With the Brexit party snapping at his Tory heels any thoughts of Boris moving in that direction will be moderated by those fears...

Boris will need to get remainer MPs on board if he doesn't want to have to hold a GE by September.

Of course all this could have been avoided if sore loser remainers hadn't stirred the Brexit pot and honoured the result of the democratic 2016 referendum.

You will be dragged kicking and squealing out of the EU, mark my words. Democracy insists on it...

I would like to remind you that without those "sore loser remainers" Theresa May would have signed the WA last year and it would have been ratified by now. And you would have been dragged kicking and screaming out of the EU under the WA terms that you hate so much.

[dribbles]

The EU elections are not for national politicians. Again, you are ignorant of this very simple fact.



Boris will need to get remainer MPs on board if he doesn't want to have to hold a GE by September.



I would like to remind you that without those "sore loser remainers" Theresa May would have signed the WA last year and it would have been ratified by now. And you would have been dragged kicking and screaming out of the EU under the WA terms that you hate so much.

If Boris chooses the no deal route as I expect he will, he doesn't have to do anything. We leave without a deal. So, to extinguish any dying embers of hope that might remain for remainers, here is something for them to pick apart at their leisure :-

A new prime minister intent on no deal Brexit can't be stopped by MPs

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-stopped-mps-0

Democracy can and will be served...

[Dizzeeyooo]

You are being silly. If everyone is allowed to vote everywhere in the EU, how would say Germans feel if the UK government shipped over 17.4 million people, of a certain persuasion, there temporarily just to vote in their elections to further any UK government EU disintegration plans? I exaggerate of course but the point is valid.

So your point is that people who live and pay taxes in the UK should only be allowed to vote in the UK if they agree with your politics?

Is that a Russian thing?

[dribbles]

So your point is that people who live and pay taxes in the UK should only be allowed to vote in the UK if they agree with your politics?

Is that a Russian thing?

No it should be reserved for British citizens that meet the accepted criteria and conditions to qualify so as to be counted as a part of the UK electorate.

[Muzjhath]

No it should be reserved for British citizens that meet the accepted criteria and conditions to qualify so as to be counted as a part of the UK electorate.

Except this vote isn't about the UK electorate. It's about the EU electorate.

As it's a vote for the European parliament which is a body to represent European Union Citizens. (That is, any citizen of a EU nation).

Otherwise you ought to be against someone from York who moves to London voting in London. They should vote in York.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

If Boris chooses the no deal route as I expect he will, he doesn't have to do anything. We leave without a deal. So, to extinguish any dying embers of hope that might remain for remainers, here is something for them to pick apart at their leisure :-

A new prime minister intent on no deal Brexit can't be stopped by MPs

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-stopped-mps-0

Democracy can and will be served...

Parliament can, and has, recently passed a law against the will of the government. Bojo's position as PM will be almost untenable if he wins the contest as it is, he will be very susceptible to a vote of no confidence. There is no guarantee that he would win the confidence vote he requires to establish his new cabinet (Corbyn would be given a chance to form a government in that case, if he fails then a snap GE would be called).

Tick tock, Labour/LD/SNP coalition incoming Brexiteer tears will be so delicious.

No it should be reserved for British citizens that meet the accepted criteria and conditions to qualify so as to be counted as a part of the UK electorate.

Again. European Union election. Any EU citizen anywhere in the EU can vote in it so long as they are registered to vote there. The UK is a constituency within the EU, in UK politics terms.

[dribbles]

Except this vote isn't about the UK electorate. It's about the EU electorate.

As it's a vote for the European parliament which is a body to represent European Union Citizens. (That is, any citizen of a EU nation).

Otherwise you ought to be against someone from York who moves to London voting in London. They should vote in York.

If it is an election held in the UK it therefore is a UK election. It was an election we shouldn't even have had and only participated in due to our weak limpet like Theresa May non leadership and the insistence of the EU, do they miss Nigel Farage that much? It should not have been open to any foreign EU voters, who soon may not have automatic rights to live in the UK with the ongoing consequence of their vote.

York and London are both in the UK, where a British citizen casts their vote is determined by where they are registered on the electoral roll. Since the Brexit referendum the electoral roll should not have been open to foreign EU voters as part of the exit preparations.

After Brexit it won't be.

Parliament can, and has, recently passed a law against the will of the government. Bojo's position as PM will be almost untenable if he wins the contest as it is, he will be very susceptible to a vote of no confidence. There is no guarantee that he would win the confidence vote he requires to establish his new cabinet (Corbyn would be given a chance to form a government in that case, if he fails then a snap GE would be called).

Tick tock, Labour/LD/SNP coalition incoming Brexiteer tears will be so delicious.



Again. European Union election. Any EU citizen anywhere in the EU can vote in it so long as they are registered to vote there. The UK is a constituency within the EU, in UK politics terms.

Considering the timetable, Tory leadership contest, with parliament soon off on summer holidays for months, running down the clock to the Oct 31st deadline will be no trouble at all for a no dealer PM, like Boris, intent on that path. Moreso with Farage back in the picture twisting his arm...

So yeah tick tock back at ya baby!

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

This is an EU election. I understand you cannot fit more than one idea in your walnut-sized brain, but this is not a UK election. It is not a UK electoral roll.

Considering the timetable, Tory leadership contest, with parliament soon off on summer holidays for months, running down the clock to the Oct 31st deadline will be no trouble at all for a no dealer PM, like Boris, intent on that path. Moreso with Farage back in the picture twisting his arm...

So yeah tick tock back at ya baby!

Bojo is a coward though. He wants to get in No. 10, and stay there past the next election. A hard-liner position won't get him that.

[Acidbaron]

Oh, one of those are you... everyone is lying except Trump. The global media is in a giant conspiracy just to trick us. Ooooh those devils!

Rofl...

His posts went from desperate to sad when he had to cosy up with the turnip master. Good thing his opinion and world view will share the same fate as the UK in 10 years, utterly irrelevant nation, if there is even a nation to speak off considering how unwanted england is becoming in the union.

[Kallisto]

So Dominic "I didn't know Dover was such a big deal. Also vote against the deal I negotiated." Raab has announced he's in the race now.

[LeGin Tufnel]

So Dominic "I didn't know Dover was such a big deal. Also vote against the deal I negotiated." Raab has announced he's in the race now.

I'm waiting for Failing Grayling to 'throw his hat' in too, then the tragicomedy will be complete.

What's interesting is that Rudd & co are keeping very quiet. Are they getting ready for the great escape? It won't take that many voting against their own party to tip the scales.

Then we can cheer on a Corbyn government, a second referendum, and Remain. Phew.

[Kronik85]

So Dominic "I didn't know Dover was such a big deal. Also vote against the deal I negotiated." Raab has announced he's in the race now.

He scares me, he's the most authentic of the human simulacra that populate the highest echelons of the Conservative party. Boris is a known quantity, I know that he has no convictions or belief beyond raising his profile and a lot of the population are onto him. Raab though? Aside from his Brexit bullshit he seems fairly palatable, could actually win a GE.

I think it's between him and BoJo. If BoJo makes it to the last round where the membership votes then it's his, if the Parliamentary Party manage to scupper his bid then I think the smart money is on Raab.

[dribbles]

So Dominic "I didn't know Dover was such a big deal. Also vote against the deal I negotiated." Raab has announced he's in the race now.

Dominic Raab is one of the good guys, I'd probably go for Steve Baker but he hasn't announced he will run. In the end it will boil down to who is best placed to stop Farage, and that's probably Boris.

Especially after the ballot boxes are opened Sunday night and even moreso if, as the bookies believe, the Brexit party wins the Peterborough by-election in a few days time to gain its first, of many, MP's.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I'm waiting for Failing Grayling to 'throw his hat' in too, then the tragicomedy will be complete.

What's interesting is that Rudd & co are keeping very quiet. Are they getting ready for the great escape? It won't take that many voting against their own party to tip the scales.

Then we can cheer on a Corbyn government, a second referendum, and Remain. Phew.

Yeah, assuming the DUP continue to be good little mercenaries and toe the Tory line, the incumbent PM would have a majority of 6 in the Commons.