[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Pann]

Again, you're looking purely at who wins. Vote share is going to be more interesting. Even if the BrP wins, how well the other 4 do, and the order they come in will be interesting indicators.

Why? It is one seat out of 650 and not only that it one seat that holding an election due to unusual circumstances. The vote share will only tell us how many people in that one seat are bothered enough to vote. Even in the unlikely event of the Greens or LDs winning it still would not mean that this would be repeated in other seats around the country.

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Like Northern is saying, the BrP winning this will be the least interesting story. It's going to be a big night for Labours "constructive ambiguity" considering the whole point of it is to court Leavers so a.particularly bad showing here might be that last nudge to get them off the fence.

Labour are going to suffer regardless simply because of Onasanya.

[Northern Goblin]

Why? It is one seat out of 650 and not only that it one seat that holding an election due to unusual circumstances. The vote share will only tell us how many people in that one seat are bothered enough to vote. Even in the unlikely event of the Greens or LDs winning it still would not mean that this would be repeated in other seats around the country.

Because it's the first seat up since the creation of the BrP?

Because it's the first seat up since the local elections and Euro elections?

Because any election data is more valuable than a random poll?


Edit: If it goes Green then we're looking at a huge political shock, but they aren't winning it.

I'm more interested to see the order of 2-5th assuming the likely BrP win, because it'll affect how those parties act going forward.

[dribbles]

People keep bringing up Islington. Well in the UK how many Islington like constituencies are there compared to how many Peterborough like ones?

If anyone dare dispute that there are 10 times as many Peterboroughs vs Islingtons I can produce a map...

[Northern Goblin]

People keep bringing up Islington. Well in the UK how many Islington like constituencies are there compared to how many Peterborough like ones?

If anyone dare dispute that there are 10 times as many Peterboroughs vs Islingtons I can produce a map...

You miss the point.

The idea of an islington is that it's a die hard remainer constituency. Not the volume of them, but the idea of them, hence the idea if the BrP won somewhere like Islington, the result would be seismic, at that point a single seat by-election could be used as a fair argument that the national mood has changed.

Going the other way, you'll never see the LD or Greens take Boston.

[Pann]

Because it's the first seat up since the creation of the BrP?

Because it's the first seat up since the local elections and Euro elections?

Because any election data is more valuable than a random poll?


Edit: If it goes Green then we're looking at a huge political shock, but they aren't winning it.

I'm more interested to see the order of 2-5th assuming the likely BrP win, because it'll affect how those parties act going forward.

But it is still only one seat - the result will only be relevant to that seat. How the people of Peterborough vote is unlikely to have any relevance as to how those from Penrith, Portsmouth, Preston or Poole vote.

[dribbles]

You miss the point.

The idea of an islington is that it's a die hard remainer constituency. Not the volume of them, but the idea of them, hence the idea if the BrP won somewhere like Islington, the result would be seismic, at that point a single seat by-election could be used as a fair argument that the national mood has changed.

Going the other way, you'll never see the LD or Greens take Boston.

That's fair and I do get the point however outside of London there are very few die hard remainer constituencies. Volume of remain vs leave constituencies are most important as it will decide the make up and number of seats of each party post General Election. The fact that your few Islingtons contain 100,000's all huddled together remainers in one place and not replicated elsewhere in the nation cannot be ignored.

10 peterboroughish brexit mp's win over 1 islingtonite remainer MP everytime. That maybe not seismic, but would still be decisive and not for the remain side.

But it is still only one seat - the result will only be relevant to that seat. How the people of Peterborough vote is unlikely to have any relevance as to how those from Penrith, Portsmouth, Preston or Poole vote.

I'd be willing to bet, without looking it up, that those towns/cities you mention are far more likely to follow the Peterborough model than the Islington one.

Really sorry for remainers, not you Pann I don't think you have ever stated your position,on here, but I honestly can't see how remainers win this.

[JohnBrown1917]

UK healthcare can't possibly be that bad?

Its one of the better systems in the world(if they stopped defunding it). But you know, ol' Nigel says an opportunity for money to made.

[Santti]

Its one of the better systems in the world(if they stopped defunding it). But you know, ol' Nigel says an opportunity for money to made.

I guess Brexit really did drove him mad.

[Pann]

I'd be willing to bet, without looking it up, that those towns/cities you mention are far more likely to follow the Peterborough model than the Islington one.

Really sorry for remainers, not you Pann I don't think you have ever stated your position,on here, but I honestly can't see how remainers win this.

I just picked a few places beginning with P so don't read anything into it. As I said before I don't believe that the Peterborough result will be statistically relevant to the rest of the UK.

I have stated plenty of times that I voted remain and I even bothered to vote in the EU elections - putting my x in the LD box (although I must confess that if I didn't have to walk past the polling station in the morning I probably would have joined the 63%). I still think that remaining would be the best course of action but I accept that the result was to leave although I do not think that this should be pursued at any cost.

Isn't that the big problem - that people (on both sides of the debate) see Brexit as something that can be won or lost?

How do you feel about Widdecombe's comments surrounding science and gay people? Do you think that she should be removed from the party? Or are you prepared to hold your nose until Brexit is delivered?

[dribbles]

I just picked a few places beginning with P so don't read anything into it. As I said before I don't believe that the Peterborough result will be statistically relevant to the rest of the UK.

I have stated plenty of times that I voted remain and I even bothered to vote in the EU elections - putting my x in the LD box (although I must confess that if I didn't have to walk past the polling station in the morning I probably would have joined the 63%). I still think that remaining would be the best course of action but I accept that the result was to leave although I do not think that this should be pursued at any cost.

Isn't that the big problem - that people (on both sides of the debate) see Brexit as something that can be won or lost?

How do you feel about Widdecombe's comments surrounding science and gay people? Do you think that she should be removed from the party? Or are you prepared to hold your nose until Brexit is delivered?

Yeah well in this inbetweenie time I have now looked up those random P places and how they voted in the EU ref. I said I would bet, but now change that to bank on them following the Peterborough result if there were a by-election in those places tomorrow.

Well you can't be half in or out of the EU as Theresa May and her 3 wasted years have shown. Her deal was unsatisfactory to both leavers and remainers. It is now win/lose. That was a problem but now, democracy has decided in Farage, the solution. Remainers should have voluntarily accepted they lost the referendum and conceded to the leavers. They didn't, democracy has/will now force them to.

Sideshow trap by the Sky interviewer and her response was spot on. People do not decide such matters of national importance on whether a man can become a woman. Totally irrelevant to the Brexit question, however I'm sure the Islingtonite luvvies will scream and shout about it for a few days, just because well Islington.

[JohnBrown1917]

I guess Brexit really did drove him mad.

Yeah but think of the profits! the profits! I mean, nobody below the upper-middle class will see any of that money, but think of it!

[Pann]

Yeah well in this inbetweenie time I have now looked up those random P places and how they voted in the EU ref. I said I would bet, but now change that to bank on them following the Peterborough result if there were a by-election in those places tomorrow.

Well you can't be half in or out of the EU as Theresa May and her 3 wasted years have shown. Her deal was unsatisfactory to both leavers and remainers. It is now win/lose. That was a problem but now, democracy has decided in Farage, the solution. Remainers should have voluntarily accepted they lost the referendum and conceded to the leavers. They didn't, democracy has/will now force them to.

Sideshow trap by the Sky interviewer and her response was spot on. People do not decide such matters of national importance on whether a man can become a woman. Totally irrelevant to the Brexit question, however I'm sure the Islingtonite luvvies will scream and shout about it for a few days, just because well Islington.

Maybe, but it will for their own reasons.

Her deal was crap but that is the reality of the Brexit - people are going to have to compromise and whilst leave did win the referendum you cannot reasonably expect those who voted remain to sit back and accept that they will be worse off in order to satisfy the wishes of minority of those who voted with the winning side. It is now and always has been lose/lose. Many remainers did and have accepted the result but what happens if democracy decides that the answer from 2016 is no longer the correct answer for 2019? Will you be content to accept this or will you have to have democracy forced upon you?

I am disappointed with your answer to be honest. Whilst her views on homosexuality are not relevant to Brexit they are most certainly relevant to her suitability as representative of the British people and the measure her values which in my opinion are not compatible with the values of the society we live in.

Is Brexit that important that we must turn a blind eye to blatant bigotry? Don't get me wrong I know the remain side is far from perfect on this count. But surely things have gone too far when we excuse assault on our politicians because we disagree with them or we ignore homophobia because they agree with us?

[Dizzeeyooo]

Labour are going to suffer regardless simply because of Onasanya.

Probably, and won't help that their candidate for the seat has walked into an antisemitism row because of her Facebook history - shame Labour went out of their way to kill the chance of a joint remain party candidate.

[dribbles]

Maybe, but it will for their own reasons.

Her deal was crap but that is the reality of the Brexit - people are going to have to compromise and whilst leave did win the referendum you cannot reasonably expect those who voted remain to sit back and accept that they will be worse off in order to satisfy the wishes of minority of those who voted with the winning side. It is now and always has been lose/lose. Many remainers did and have accepted the result but what happens if democracy decides that the answer from 2016 is no longer the correct answer for 2019? Will you be content to accept this or will you have to have democracy forced upon you?

I am disappointed with your answer to be honest. Whilst her views on homosexuality are not relevant to Brexit they are most certainly relevant to her suitability as representative of the British people and the measure her values which in my opinion are not compatible with the values of the society we live in.

Is Brexit that important that we must turn a blind eye to blatant bigotry? Don't get me wrong I know the remain side is far from perfect on this count. But surely things have gone too far when we excuse assault on our politicians because we disagree with them or we ignore homophobia because they agree with us?

Dissapointed? Ann Widdecombe well into her 70's opined on human sexuality and gender fluidity in the 21st C and you are surprised that it didn't reflect the common view? How could she possibly be an expert on that subject? You think she is still swinging from the rafters after dark? And So what, she can't have an opinion on that? Was it illegal what she thinks?

Ah but I see now that you say it is, comparing that her thought crime is exactly the same as clearly illegal physical assaults by criminals on politicians.

I would never have believed you were an advocate of the thought police. That's disappointing.

[Flarelaine]

and again he backs a brexit Britain..."I BACK BORIS"

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/919616...ster-uk-visit/

So much common sense from one man in just a 10 minute interview, I hope he has a fabulous time on his state visit to the UK next week and enjoys tea with our Queen, our Boris and our Nigel. Americans are lucky to have him.

So you're all worked up at Brussels but swoon all over America telling you what's what. Duly noted.

Heel.

[Kiri]

Maybe, but it will for their own reasons.

Her deal was crap but that is the reality of the Brexit - people are going to have to compromise and whilst leave did win the referendum you cannot reasonably expect those who voted remain to sit back and accept that they will be worse off in order to satisfy the wishes of minority of those who voted with the winning side. It is now and always has been lose/lose. Many remainers did and have accepted the result but what happens if democracy decides that the answer from 2016 is no longer the correct answer for 2019? Will you be content to accept this or will you have to have democracy forced upon you?

I am disappointed with your answer to be honest. Whilst her views on homosexuality are not relevant to Brexit they are most certainly relevant to her suitability as representative of the British people and the measure her values which in my opinion are not compatible with the values of the society we live in.

Is Brexit that important that we must turn a blind eye to blatant bigotry? Don't get me wrong I know the remain side is far from perfect on this count. But surely things have gone too far when we excuse assault on our politicians because we disagree with them or we ignore homophobia because they agree with us?

I think to some people it sadly is. They are not really affected by the specific bigotry in question, so the only thing that matters is that they get the result that matters. Some people simply see the government purely as a vehicle to deliver upon them Brexit, nothing else.

[Crispin]

So you're all worked up at Brussels but swoon all over America telling you what's what. Duly noted.

Heel.

US wants access to NHS in post-Brexit deal, says Trump ally I'm sure Dribbles would love becoming a colony of the US

[Flarelaine]

US wants access to NHS in post-Brexit deal, says Trump ally I'm sure Dribbles would love becoming a colony of the US

Something tells me that The Times is also pissed at Trump meddling in British affairs...

[Pann]

Dissapointed? Ann Widdecombe well into her 70's opined on human sexuality and gender fluidity in the 21st C and you are surprised that it didn't reflect the common view? How could she possibly be an expert on that subject? You think she is still swinging from the rafters after dark? And So what, she can't have an opinion on that? Was it illegal what she thinks?

Ah but I see now that you say it is, comparing that her thought crime is exactly the same as clearly illegal physical assaults by criminals on politicians.

I would never have believed you were an advocate of the thought police. That's disappointing.

I am disappointed because you've chosen to dismiss and make excuses for Widdecombe's comments. We're not talking about an old lady not being down with the kids and not knowing the correct pronouns, we're talking about someone - a representative of the UK - making comments about gay conversion.

I could have respected but not agreed with the view that the Brexit party should focus on Brexit and the quicker it was delivered the quicker we could go back to a world without Widdecombe in politics. But to make excuses for her?! No way! I, wrongly it seems, expected better from you.

A few posts ago you linked a prediction that the Brexit Party would take the most seats if a GE was held meaning that potentially they will be the party to form the next government. Can you honestly say that a party that allows one of its members to make comments about gay conversion is ready for government?

Others may take the thought police bait but I will not.

[dribbles]

I am disappointed because you've chosen to dismiss and make excuses for Widdecombe's comments. We're not talking about an old lady not being down with the kids and not knowing the correct pronouns, we're talking about someone - a representative of the UK - making comments about gay conversion.

I could have respected but not agreed with the view that the Brexit party should focus on Brexit and the quicker it was delivered the quicker we could go back to a world without Widdecombe in politics. But to make excuses for her?! No way! I, wrongly it seems, expected better from you.

A few posts ago you linked a prediction that the Brexit Party would take the most seats if a GE was held meaning that potentially they will be the party to form the next government. Can you honestly say that a party that allows one of its members to make comments about gay conversion is ready for government?

Others may take the thought police bait but I will not.

I am open minded and believe everyone should be allowed a personal opinion on personal matters and the broad church Brexit party is the same. From Ann Widdecombe types at one end of the spectrum to perhaps your Julian Clary types at the other and all points in between. It is not realistic to expect a god fearing traditional old woman in her 70's to hold the same views on sexuality as the experimental cool kids of today in Brighton.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that they ever would.

It is also very dangerous, intolerant and ageist of you to think everyone from 18-80 must be of the same sexual mindset as the gender fluid youngsters of todays world. What do you propose? Sending Widdecombe for some teenage conversion therapy to change her mind? Criminalise her, as you would those that assault politicians, for such heinous thoughts?

Ann Widdecombe, lets face it is a little old lady, is as entitled to her opinion on human sexuality just as you, I or any other Tom Dick or Harry.

You finding it unacceptable that she has admittedly dated views, makes the Brexit party more ready for government than the intolerant alternative thought police led society you propose.

Just stop with your granny bashing, it's not big and it's not clever. Ann4ever.