[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Shalcker]

No, they do not care for "current borders" they try to impose their delusions on others.

They hate losing things; "current borders" was about that.

They just love to come up with their own ideas where the borders should be.

They might dream about it but they don't actually plan to go to war over it.

[Slant]

nah, it's much akin to what the British want; they are game for a common trade area but that's it. Things like the EU budget or Schengen after all impinge on absolute sovereignty. Le Pen tries to present herself as such (though honestly I find the only reason she can get away with it is that France disenfranchises minorities without the far right's help).

That's stupid, though. I mean, the EU has taken Schengen and the trade area pretty far, but you can't go much further unless you start aligning national standards. You know, the actual legislation the EU does mostly. Harmonization.

Sometimes I'd like to slap some sense into them. And whenever they can't explain how they'd like to accomplish their fairy tale pony land, I'd like fucking John Cena to come along and dropkick them.

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I'm trying hard not to be one. People can't handle the nuance between nationalist and chauvinist these days and the former has absorbed all the unsavoury connotations of the latter.

Chauvinist? Isn't that like... sexist stuff? I may have to actually look up the definition for the word after having ignored it for decades.

[Slant]

Agreed, the far right (at least in Denmark) have no noteworthy policy in regards to the climate change challenges.

The far right never has any policy aside from "scare everyone into voting you" scheme. Climate change doesn't work for the far-right, because everyone's already scared. Including the big parties. The far-right always exploits or invents threats that haven't been there before. And they are the only ones that have realised it and of course the only ones with a solution.

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The original meaning of the world was political. Chauvinism is nationalism with the added delusion that your people are the best there are and everyone else is just worse. I'd say most US nationalists are chauvinists instead.
Chauvinism can be used to mean group supremacism though and the most common use is that of male chauvinism that believes that men are superior to women on an intrinsic level.

Hmm, I understand... so in that context, nationalism seems sensible. Unfortunately, the term was pretty much robbed by the far-right.

[Flarelaine]

Hmm, I understand... so in that context, nationalism seems sensible. Unfortunately, the term was pretty much robbed by the far-right.

Today, you may argue that there is little difference and chauvinism is really just nationalism on steroids.

But classical nationalism used to be a positive force. It fueled the German and Italian reunifications and several movements for ethnic self-government or even just cultural awakening, so to speak, in 19th century Europe. Nationalism in that sense is the desire to improve or lift up one's nation - not necessarily at the expense of others (though in practice it tends to manifest that way). As an example, the movement to have Hungarian translations - and worthy ones at that - for all of Shakespeare's works was borne of nationalism, to prove that Hungarian is not just a language for peasants in a backwater province of the Habsburgs.

[Noradin]

They hate losing things; "current borders" was about that.

"Current borders" sounds like they would be satisfied with that, they won't.

[Shalcker]

"Current borders" sounds like they would be satisfied with that, they won't.

Some do, some don't, and some will be stopped by costs of getting more, it's wrong to generalize.

[Noradin]

Some do, some don't, and some will be stopped by costs of getting more, it's wrong to generalize.

Then you're taking back your initial post about them?
Good.

[ranzino]

wonder how it will be sold in UK they will miss the opportunity on purpose.

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and page 1000 of the saga arrived. >4 months to go unless a miracle or desaster happens

[Shalcker]

Then you're taking back your initial post about them?
Good.

Expansionism isn't integral part of nationalism. "Keeping what is already ours" is.

[Noradin]

Expansionism isn't integral part of nationalism. "Keeping what is already ours" is.

Back to generalizing, I see...

[Kallisto]

Raab's plan of shutting down parliament to push through a no deal has been ripped apart by Bercow

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48541352

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Raab's plan of shutting down parliament to push through a no deal has been ripped apart by Bercow

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48541352

Did anybody really think that Bercow would allow them to do that?

[Slant]

Nationalism never seems sensible, sorry. Even without chauvinism, nationalism still sees an imperative to suppress any identity different from the traditional identity and culture of the nation and is thus inimical to minorities.

The supposedly sensible alternative is patriotism. I still find any ideology that is tied, emotionally, to the concept of pride in anything that does not derive from your personal actions as explicitly irrational.

Well, nationalism is a necessary step to form nations. The trick is to stop there.

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Today, you may argue that there is little difference and chauvinism is really just nationalism on steroids.

But classical nationalism used to be a positive force. It fueled the German and Italian reunifications and several movements for ethnic self-government or even just cultural awakening, so to speak, in 19th century Europe. Nationalism in that sense is the desire to improve or lift up one's nation - not necessarily at the expense of others (though in practice it tends to manifest that way). As an example, the movement to have Hungarian translations - and worthy ones at that - for all of Shakespeare's works was borne of nationalism, to prove that Hungarian is not just a language for peasants in a backwater province of the Habsburgs.

That's what I'm talking about.

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I mean we knew it was going to happen sooner than late
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...KCN1T72BV?il=0
Yet another solid trade deal happening soon. That the UK will not be part of once Brexit happens.

And the EU keeps knitting its net of economic allies. How does nobody notice that the EU is turning itself into quite the giant trade hub? Well, good for us, I suppose...

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wonder how it will be sold in UK they will miss the opportunity on purpose.

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and page 1000 of the saga arrived. >4 months to go unless a miracle or desaster happens

The UK will find a way to spin it. It includes Argentine. I mean, without having looked at their papers, I wouldn't be surprised if they call the EU traitors and threaten to quit NATO over this. No, I'm not exaggerating. That is the level of stupid Brexiteers entertain.

[AeneasBK]

Posting in page 1000 for posterity.

[Kallisto]

Did anybody really think that Bercow would allow them to do that?

Brexiteers were hoping.

[Iphie]

One thousand pages, my my how does the time fly. Still no solution fun times.

[Kallisto]

Early hours but looks like Brexit party have conceded defeat in Peterborough.

https://twitter.com/britainelects/st...46107835490304

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Also in herefordshire Ross North Lib Dem get 75% of the vote

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/s...61727733964802

[Slant]

One thousand pages, my my how does the time fly. Still no solution fun times.

For a solution, you need to clearly define what the problem is. So far, we still haven't gotten further than "duh, sovereignity!" and "'cos... empire!"

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Early hours but looks like Brexit party have conceded defeat in Peterborough.

https://twitter.com/britainelects/st...46107835490304

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Also in herefordshire Ross North Lib Dem get 75% of the vote

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/s...61727733964802

Are those local elections? Why did we expect the Brexit party to win anything again?

[Dizzeeyooo]

Are those local elections?

Election A constituency voted to remove their MP, so there is a by-election to replace her.

Why did we expect the Brexit party to win anything again?

Peterborough is very brexity, and the replacement Labour party candidate managed to walk into an antisemitic row (unusually for Labour )

[JohnBrown1917]

Election A constituency voted to remove their MP, so there is a by-election to replace her.


Peterborough is very brexity, and the replacement Labour party candidate managed to walk into an antisemitic row (unusually for Labour )

Does not like Isreal "anti-semitism" or actual anti-semitism?