[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Pann]

I think you're having a difficult relationship with the definition of the word "convention", which is explicitly used in the part you bolded and has been used repeatedly by me.

Convention is the problem at work here. She can, but she doesn't because of convention. But that doesn't mean she can't. She can. She just doesn't because of tradition.

The whole passage you quoted was based on the premise of Johnson advising her to refuse Assent. The Queen technically has a lot of powers however in reality and practice she must remain politically neutral and the fact a veto was used in 1707 does not mean that the same can happen today.

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It would also be entirely futile. The last european monarch who tried it, the Belgian King that tried to veto legalizing abortion was quickly dethroned for a day. The same would probably happen in the UK.

It would certainly lead to another crisis in our, non-existent, constitution.

[draykorinee]

There is a deal - it is 600 pages long and has been agreed with the EU - but parliament do not want this deal. They, also, don't want anything else and think that sending the government away to get something better from the EU, when there is absolutely no incentive for the EU to re-open negotiations because whatever they come up with will be rejected, is a solution to the problem.

So, yes, this part of the mess is parliament's fault.

No, the deal is terrible, therefore Parliament couldn't put it through.

So no, this part of the mess is still the Government that failed to deliver a suitable Brexit deal.

[Pann]

No, the deal is terrible, therefore Parliament couldn't put it through.

So no, this part of the mess is still the Government that failed to deliver a suitable Brexit deal.

What's wrong with the deal? The EU seem to think it's all right.

And what exactly would be a suitable Brexit deal?

[Pann]

Does anyone even know the answer to that?

Exactly! It's easy to snipe from the sidelines and point out problems, not so easy to come up with solutions!

[draykorinee]

What's wrong with the deal? The EU seem to think it's all right.

And what exactly would be a suitable Brexit deal?

I'm sure they're happy with the deal, unfortunately its not them that the Government have to please.

If I could answer the latter I would have voted for leave.

[Pann]

I'm sure they're happy with the deal, unfortunately its not them that the Government have to please.

If I could answer the latter I would have voted for leave.

That's not an answer. What do you think is wrong with the deal?

How can you judge that the current deal is terrible if you do not have an idea what a suitable deal would be?

[mvaliz]

I give praise to Bercow's ties. The man dares!

I wrote this a long time before, but I always say he reminds me of Terry Jones from Monty Python. What I wouldn't give to see him do a quick snippet parodying Bercow, dimentia or not! :P

[Pann]

Which is why if I was an MP I'd go for a second referendum. Just make the people decide.

Yeah, that worked out so well the last time!

But maybe we could have some sort of public indicative votes? We could make it like the X-Factor and put Simon Cowell in charge then all the money from phone and text votes could go towards paying for the ensuing chaos!

[Dizzeeyooo]

Yeah, that worked out so well the last time!

A referendum between known and defined options (remain, negotiated deal) gives a much clearer direction for people to follow, compared to the question 3 years ago when detail was actively avoided in order to help secure the result.

[mvaliz]

Does anyone even know the answer to that?

I do - whichever deal validates the Brexiteer's insecurity issues the most.

Example: "A tax on XYZ products" won't please them, but saying "We'll return you your God-Given right to enjoy Black Pudding", they'll stand up and cheer in droves!

(Note: The EU has done nothing involving Black Pudding. However, many in the Rural communities of the UK for some reason believe that Black Pudding was banned by the EU, when it in reality has simply gone out of fashion instead and isn't in demand anymore.)

[Pann]

Look if it was up to me, I'd make a detailed, non-binary referendum.

What no Cowell? Telephone votes? Damn!

I have always been against another referendum but I increasingly think that it is the only way out of this mess. A referendum with two questions - leave or remain and no-deal or negotiated deal - everyone answers both questions and if leave wins we use the result of the second to determine how we leave. I'm not sure whether it would pass the electoral commission but it would answer the question one way or another.

[Pann]

Please rank in order of preference
No Deal
The existing WA
EFTA+

I had to laugh at this. I would be surprised if the percentage of population in the UK who could tell you what the existing deal or EFTA are reached double figures!

[Pann]

Heck I'd be surprised if the number of MPs who can tell you what the WA says exactly and what we mean by EFTA+ is in the double digits.

Unfortunately I think that is accurate.

[mvaliz]

Weird. It's still very present and in demand at my local EU butcher. Especially german butcheries usually have piles of it stacked in their displays. (I prefer white pudding though).

Misinformation is the new opiate of the people.

There's a popular Youtube rural butcher named Scott Rea who did an off-topic vid on his opinions of Brexit, and one of the views he shared was how he was upset the EU banned Black Pudding in the UK, and his comments section was filled with people (just like you) saying they get it all the time in XYZ areas that he's not located in! :P

[Pann]

This could be very important

'Vote in the HoC on Grieve motion to compel publication of Yellowhammer and communications relating to prorogation - Result circa 730'

https://twitter.com/labourwhips/stat...24814171557888

[Belize]

It's really sad he's not smart enough to look into the regulations on his own.

Now to be fair to the guy, being a butcher doesn't require a PhD... Or a high school education for that matter.

And more often than not, the less edumacation you have, the more easily swindled you are by lies since you've never been taught to think critically.

[Pann]

I mean we talk about EFTA+ here and you see it in papers all the time, but what exactly is it? I think (and I am probably wrong) that it involves not just an EFTA membership but a Customs Union and/or perhaps Schengen membership or treaties that simulate that. And possibly any number of other treaties we've never heard off; EFTA e.g. does not make you a member of the CAP or the CFP

I was taking the piss but I must confess I am in the 90+% who couldn't tell you what exactly EFTA+ would be.

[Pann]

Scott Rea [...] was upset the EU banned Black Pudding in the UK.

Has Mr Rea never set foot in a supermarket or something?

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He can still use google.

Or visit Tesco...


... and these are the type of people Cameron trusted the future of the UK to!

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'MPs win bid to force govt to force publication of No deal documents and private messages of Number 10 advisers - conventions being broken all over the place these days, even tho only a few hours of this session of parliament left'

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status...29075945082880

It is going to be very interesting to see how this goes.

[mvaliz]

It's really sad he's not smart enough to look into the regulations on his own.

That's a problem with people in general. They see something they don't like, they ask themselves/their brain "Why is this not the way I remember?" and their brain, filtered via prejudices, generates an answer that they believe wholeheartedly.

FFS, there's one guy I know who was upset that believed some group in Chicago stopped the creation of the George Lucas Star Wars museum because it was to protect the Spotted Owl. When I checked up, it wasn't that at all - it was some group called "Friends of the park" who stopped it as they felt there wasn't going to be enough money coming in from the place (!?!?) instead of the parking lot that already makes money... and not only was it not about animal conservation, but there's NO species of owl called the "Spotted Owl" in Illinois, let alone Chicago. Illinois only has 2 species and they're both in Rural areas. >_<

But, confronted with this, he doubled down and began yelling about how he was right and I should just "Go look it up" when I did exactly that. >_<

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Has Mr Rea never set foot in a supermarket or something?

Good question really, since he was from a line of Butchers in rural counties. He's got ballin' butcher skills, but I'm guessing due to that he's never recently set foot in one as he's basically his own market really. :P

And, yes, he makes Black Pudding himself - claiming that's the only way he can get it. >.>

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Now to be fair to the guy, being a butcher doesn't require a PhD... Or a high school education for that matter.

Can't comment on his education level, but I do know his Butcher skills are indeed from family. Half his appeal is that his skills are a generational thing from him passed down from many years on how home Butchery is a "lost art"... which I don't think it really is that "lost" TBH. :P

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He can still use google.

He does upload a ton of vids with decent editing - so I'm assuming he's got some good computer-literate skills in there as well, or has access to somebody else who does at minimum.

[Belize]

He can still use google.

Btw not only has the EU not banned Black Pudding but it has actually protected the Black Pudding made in certain areas by granting them PDO status.

It's not different to Billy Joe Bob taking to Facebook to scream that the U.S. Dems are going to make steaks illegal.

Low education leads to general idiocy and gullibleness.