View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #21781
    People still don't get that "Imperialism is wrong and it's all the Jews fault." the book with Corbyn writing the forward saying how great it is somehow isn't antisemitic? Strange.

  2. #21782
    Quote Originally Posted by tynitha View Post
    I suppose you think it is anti-semitic to say that The Jewish media and their gentile pawns justify most of the wars of the world, and that Zionists control half the world, not just a statement of fact?
    Damn, Protocals of the Elders of Zion much?

    I mean what you sprouted is one of the bigger anti semetic conspiracies out there.

  3. #21783
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    People still don't get that "Imperialism is wrong and it's all the Jews fault." the book with Corbyn writing the forward saying how great it is somehow isn't antisemitic? Strange.
    No doubt it's politically embarrassing, but it's a book from 1901 so yeah some of it is backwards and racist. He obviously wasn't endorsing the problematic parts of it. By that logic anyone who likes Lovecraft or Robert E. Howard is a racist.

    Quote Originally Posted by tynitha View Post
    I suppose you think it is anti-semitic to say that The Jewish media and their gentile pawns justify most of the wars of the world, and that Zionists control half the world, not just a statement of fact?

    I suppose you think it is anti-semitic to fire a rocket at Israel in self-defense?

    I suppose you think it is anti-semitic to point to the Israeli government's role in provoking attacks on synagogues worldwide?
    1. Yes
    2. No
    3. Maybe? I have no idea what this one is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  4. #21784
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Damn, Protocals of the Elders of Zion much?

    I mean what you sprouted is one of the bigger anti semetic conspiracies out there.
    On balance, Corbyn’s shit is less bad than the overt racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, islamophobia, and indeed anti-semitism present in the current government.

    But you wouldn’t think that from the coverage.

  5. #21785
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    No doubt it's politically embarrassing, but it's a book from 1901 so yeah some of it is backwards and racist. He obviously wasn't endorsing the problematic parts of it. By that logic anyone who likes Lovecraft or Robert E. Howard is a racist.
    He could have if he didn't have any anti semetic sentiments instead of praising the book go "This is a pile of anti semetic garbage and anyone who wants to read something that shows the ills of imperialism go read xyz.". Also there's a major difference between Lovecraft/Howard and the book in question. The formers are fiction the latter claims to be non fiction. You can be ok with the formers work (Personall I tend not to be) but keep a discrete distance from the author racist views.

    But when a book is inherently "It's all the jews fault." and claims to be anti fiction, then yeah there's a really big problem there. You can't call it brilliant when the whole premise of it is anti semetic from start to finish.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    On balance, Corbyn’s shit is less bad than the overt racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, islamophobia, and indeed anti-semitism present in the current government.

    But you wouldn’t think that from the coverage.
    Honestly both are as bad as each other.

  6. #21786

  7. #21787
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...brexit-inquiry

    Any consolation, more allegations of conflicts of interest and impropriety.

    VONC next week, probably Wednesday while he’s talking in Manchester.

  8. #21788
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    lol, yep

    Classic Freudian slip.

    He, of course, did actually mean knife not axe.
    In fairness his comments didn't need the police looking into him but it does show him up to be a massive hypocrite after the fuss he made about Jo Brand.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Hammond and his team have not named any individual donors. However, hedge fund managers have backed Johnson. One of those is Crispin Odey, a fund manager who has also previously backed Vote Leave and Ukip. Over the summer, it was reported that his fund had made a £300m bet against British businesses and stood to profit from an economic slump in the UK. However, the fund also backed other British companies. Odey did not respond to a request for comment.

    This is incredible. Give it time. It won't be long before he's, literally, getting away with murder.
    I wouldn't get too excited about this there is no actual evidence in the Guardian article that Johnson has acted inappropriately (this time) and as Andrew Neil points out, WRT to Crispin Odey, "Unless you also know his long positions, this tells you nothing about whether or not he’d benefit from no deal. His funds’ performance in the political chaos that has followed the referendum these past 3 years is pretty poor."

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1177958855143112705

  9. #21789
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Personally, I find the fact that Neil feels the need to defend someone like Odey in itself a bit of a giveaway. I hate to get all burnerish, but I simply have no time for people like Odey. Putting the BJ / corruption dimension aside for a moment: Odey presents the unacceptable face of capitalism. A brash, old Harrovian, multi-millionaire hedge fund manager whose funds have profited as a result of his decision to bet against Sterling; once married to a Murdoch daughter (lasted 15 months: which party do you think was it who couldn't bring themselves to consummate the relationship - her or him?); who is aligned to people who call those who want to Remain in the EU "elitists"? LOL. No. I don't particularly care for him or Neil's defence of him. He's a parasite.

    And, in general, this is where we're going with Brexit. Black & white. No shades of grey. Enemy or ally.
    Why? If you take time to read Neil's twitter or watch his programs he is fairly even handed nor is he defending Odey, he is simply stating that there is no evidence to support the claim. Odey may be unpleasant but that doesn't mean that he is involved in illegal schemes nor does mean that Johnson's pursuit of Brexit is to make his pal's money or to save them making a loss.

    I know it is unpopular nowadays, and even less so since Brexit began, but we should be judge stories on evidence not hearsay.

  10. #21790
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Why? If you take time to read Neil's twitter or watch his programs he is fairly even handed nor is he defending Odey, he is simply stating that there is no evidence to support the claim. Odey may be unpleasant but that doesn't mean that he is involved in illegal schemes nor does mean that Johnson's pursuit of Brexit is to make his pal's money or to save them making a loss.

    I know it is unpopular nowadays, and even less so since Brexit began, but we should be judge stories on evidence not hearsay.
    No one was named, you’re talking speculation on speculation; but his sister, and Philip Hammond know what’s up. More skeletons will come forth from his closet. There seem to be a lot of people want their pound of flesh.

    A guy doesn’t try to get someone beaten up on their porch without making enemies, and he seems to have outlasted his usefulness to them.

    An investigation is just the start - and there may be two of them. There’s plenty of reason to expect, beyond that, that he won’t be PM by the end of the week.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2019-09-28 at 10:17 PM.

  11. #21791
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    No one was named, you’re talking speculation on speculation; but his sister, and Philip Hammond know what’s up. More skeletons will come forth from his closet. There seem to be a lot of people want their pound of flesh.

    A guy doesn’t try to get someone beaten up on their porch without making enemies, and he seems to have outlasted his usefulness to them.

    An investigation is just the start - and there may be two of them. There’s plenty of reason to expect, beyond that, that he won’t be PM by the end of the week.
    There's no evidence to support the claim full stop.

    Just to clarify; there may well be evidence to support their claim but so far none has been put forward.
    Last edited by Pann; 2019-09-28 at 10:26 PM.

  12. #21792
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    There's no evidence to support the claim full stop.
    Those people don’t make those claims without something to back it up.

    And they don’t spill it all to the media either because they don’t want to jeopardise an investigation.

    We’re talking about his own sister and the former chancellor, and you’re suggesting they’re not reliable?
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2019-09-28 at 10:25 PM.

  13. #21793
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Those people don’t make those claims without something to back it up.

    And they don’t spill it all to the media either because they don’t want to jeopardise an investigation.

    We’re talking about his own sister and the former chancellor, and you’re suggesting they’re not reliable?
    Yeah, of course not.

  14. #21794
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Neil's argument is basically wait and see. Wait and see what Odey's long position is. By which time, it'll be far too late. Fuck that. Who do I choose to believe: Hammond or Neil? I'll punt for Hammond.

    Anyway, for me anyway, it's no longer relevant.

    Odey can fuck off. As can Boris, as can Rees-Mogg, as can Steve "hard man" Baker. So can Neil if he aligns himself with these people.

    Brexit purists didn't vote for May's deal, this is the result: further division.
    Looking through that thread, best comment: “I’m not sure whether corruption is defined on whether or not it is successful”.

  15. #21795
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Neil's argument is basically wait and see. Wait and see what Odey's long position is. By which time, it'll be far too late. Fuck that. Who do I choose to believe: Hammond or Neil? I'll punt for Hammond.

    Anyway, for me anyway, it's no longer relevant.

    Odey can fuck off. As can Boris, as can Rees-Mogg, as can Steve "hard man" Baker. So can Neil if he aligns himself with these people.

    Brexit purists didn't vote for May's deal, this is the result: further division.
    And? Isn't that a reasonable position to take? You know, wait to see if there is actual evidence to support a claim? But, yeah, I forgot it's Brexit - kangaroo courts all the way!

    Neil does not align himself with them. He will take people to task regardless of which side of the debate they occupy or their political leanings nor will he condemn anyone without evidence. In my opinion we need more journalists like him.

    Lots of people didn't vote for May's deal - do we only complain about them based on how Brexity their positions are?
    Last edited by Pann; 2019-09-28 at 10:34 PM.

  16. #21796
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Yeah, of course not.
    And a Twitter comment disregarding what Odey has literally said about his stance on Brexit is reliable?

    Holy shit dude. No more Koolaid for you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    And? Isn't that a reasonable position to take? You know, wait to see if there is actual evidence to support a claim? But, yeah, I forgot it's Brexit - kangaroo courts all the way!

    Neil does not align himself with them. He will take people to task regardless of which side of the debate they occupy or their political leanings nor will he condemn anyone without evidence. In my opinion we need more journalists like him.

    Lots of people didn't vote for May's deal - do we only complain about them based on how Brexity their positions are?
    More journalists of the Tory Spectator variety?

  17. #21797
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    And a Twitter comment disregarding what Odey has literally said about his stance on Brexit is reliable?

    Holy shit dude. No more Koolaid for you.
    Eh? What?

    If Hammond has evidence to support his claim then why has he not gone to police?

    But, yeah, let's get the pitchforks and torches ready!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    More journalists of the Tory Spectator variety?
    He is not a Spectator journalist.

  18. #21798
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Eh? What?

    If Hammond has evidence to support his claim then why has he not gone to police?

    But, yeah, let's get the pitchforks and torches ready!
    Not Police jurisdiction, it’s a matter for the Cabinet Office, to whom he’s been reported. Insane complications of Parliamentary Justice.
    He is not a Spectator journalist.
    No, he’s the fucking chairman.

  19. #21799
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Not Police jurisdiction, it’s a matter for the Cabinet Office, to whom he’s been reported. Insane complications of Parliamentary Justice.

    No, he’s the fucking chairman.
    Complete nonsense! Of course it's a police matter if Johnson is truly pursuing a Brexit which will make his friends rich.

    He is, but that has no bearing on his ability as a journalist.

    Look if this going to go the usual way with you - where you spend the next so many hours telling lie after lie - I'll leave the discussion here.

  20. #21800
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Complete nonsense! Of course it's a police matter if Johnson is truly pursuing a Brexit which will make his friends rich.

    He is, but that has no bearing on his ability as a journalist.

    Look if this going to go the usual way with you - where you spend the next so many hours telling lie after lie - I'll leave the discussion here.
    He’s the chairman of the Spectator which is very Tory biased, and he does write articles and perform interviews for it.

    He is biased. Whatever hat he puts on for the BBC, that’s not his normal hat and his Twitter hat is very much his own views. Being good at interviewing people for TV doesn’t have a thing to do with any of that.

    Furthermore, the allegations aren’t just from Hammond, they’re also backed up by other MPs and his sister, they all know the score. He has been reported for investigation accordingly.

    It’s not like it hasn’t been an obvious, basically open secret with these allegations in the wind since the whole referendum was confirmed.

    Yet here you are with your fingers in your ears, saying it ain’t so because Andrew Neil says ‘wait and see’. While the opposition and his former allies are looking at ways to kick him out over this before the end of the week.

    Do you want him to actually get on his FB live and tell the world to camera he’s in it for this before you believe it?

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