[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Demolitia]

Frankly, just looking at him this year versus videos from a few years back... I think age has finally caught up with him and hit him hard. He's a lot frailer looking than hen he called out "Dodgy Dave".

Maybe it's just his way of implying the whole thing is farcical enough? A silent statement?

[Calfredd]

....That's an American neo-con sneering at the working class you are cheer-leading for. No wonder they stopped voting for Blairite candidates.

You really are a nasty little cunt, you know.

Nobody really cares what you say Mr. So-desperate-for-attention-I-spam-new-accounts. Only reason I responded is because your cries for attention are kind of funny.

[Demolitia]

Once again your delusionals make you mistake begging and pleading for commanding
How tragic :'(

- - - Updated - - -



that's what being delusional does to you. Facts and reality can't really get through to him =(

Aaaand here comes another GE if the motion passes...

[dribbles]

Could we all agree that should an election take place on Dec 12th, if Labour and the Fib Dems don't chicken out yet again, it is a Brexit election and nothing else?

Just want to get inb4 when the remainers lose, again, the excuses will come flooding out like last time about how it was nothing to do with brexit...

[Kallisto]

No General election until No Deal is 100% ruled out. The Election is done under something other than FPTP system (because Boris could get as low as 30% of the vote with 50% of parliament. So 70% wants him to fuck off but stuck with him.) and the shitty deal is read and thrown out too.

[Northern Goblin]

Expectation is that Macron will relent on his 2 week extension proposal, that it's not worth the political capital to push on this.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Could we all agree that should an election take place on Dec 12th, if Labour and the Fib Dems don't chicken out yet again, it is a Brexit election and nothing else?

Just want to get inb4 when the remainers lose, again, the excuses will come flooding out like last time about how it was nothing to do with brexit...

We'll try explaining it again, since you seem to struggle with any concept more complex than "hide the nose".

An election puts a party into power for 5 years. To run every aspect of the country; the economy, education, health and so on. It isn't just about Brexit, no matter how much you hold your breath and scweam and scweam and scweam. Just because this is the only thought you can hold in your brain at one time, it doesn't mean it's everyone elses.

There are people sitting on zero hours contracts, paralysed with fear at the insecurity of their lives. They want to get a government that will help them. There are people struggling with the new benefits system, they want a government that will care about their struggles. People going to food banks to survive want a government that will give them their dignity back. People that see their schools being sold off to private concerns against their wishes want to roll back the Academy system and return to an education system that isn't seen as a get-rich quick scheme for some.

And some people want to see the creeping privatisation of the NHS stopped, and indeed reversed.

If we go ahead with the form of Brexit you want, we are going to be facing an economy moving backwards, and a government stuck in multiple years of negotiations with entities far more powerful than they are trying to get deals to fix some of it. There won't be the governmental bandwidth to fix all the things that need fixing, because Brexit will still be having an impact when I'm safely retired and possibly even when I'm dead. And there will be less money to fix things even if we wanted to.

So no, the next election won't just be about Brexit. You want to know what people think about that, and only that? Have a referendum. One that this time is between two actual choices, rather than one actual choice and a hole where a choice should be that morons like Farage filled with whatever the fuck they wanted.

And last point of all; don't give me a single word about "chickens" when your dreams are held in the hands of the most spineless person in the country. Any time Boris needs to stand up for something he pretended to believe in, he vanishes like the slippery turd he is. It doesn't matter whether it's runways, Brexit dates or his own children; he's never met any challenge he isn't prepared to run away from. Just like virtually all of the Brexit crew have run away from responsibility for sorting this mess out for the last three years.

You want chickens? Look in your own coop. Brexit supporters are scared of foreigners, responsibility, democracry and most laws. Throwing insults like that around is rank hypocrisy.

[Gibblewink]

This is actually pretty depressing...

https://www.politico.eu/article/poll...brexit-result/

[Demolitia]

Expectation is that Macron will relent on his 2 week extension proposal, that it's not worth the political capital to push on this.

Indeed, he has quite some ambitions to reform and push the EU forward. Being singled out as the one who caused no deal would burn political capital and goodwill he will badly need later on.

- - - Updated - - -

Is it surprising?
Someone should really hang Cameron in front of Parliament.

While he deserves a good punch in the balls for this, May and to a greater extent Johnson have taken stances and drawn red lines that are in no way representative of what would be acceptable to a majority of people. How we so quickly moved from a Norway+ idea that pissed off the ERG only to a no deal or the current deal that is only pleasing the ERG is baffling. How did fringe bunch of tories end up directing this shitshow to where we are now?

[Elegiac]

While he deserves a good punch in the balls for this, May and to a greater extent Johnson have taken stances and drawn red lines that are in no way representative of what would be acceptable to a majority of people. How we so quickly moved from a Norway+ idea that pissed off the ERG only to a no deal or the current deal that is only pleasing the ERG is baffling. How did fringe bunch of tories end up directing this shitshow to where we are now?

Pretty simple.

British government isn't and has never been acutely representative of public opinion since even its legislative branch started off as primarily a forum for the country's non-peer elite to have their voices heard. So if a high proportion of the British elite are either idiots or wicked people that stand to profit off human misery, government will be reflective of that.

[Dhrizzle]

While he deserves a good punch in the balls for this, May and to a greater extent Johnson have taken stances and drawn red lines that are in no way representative of what would be acceptable to a majority of people. How we so quickly moved from a Norway+ idea that pissed off the ERG only to a no deal or the current deal that is only pleasing the ERG is baffling. How did fringe bunch of tories end up directing this shitshow to where we are now?

A slim majority which May's election wiped out meant the government was much more reliant on fringe groups like the ERG and DUP, May's red lines were drawn to keep herself and her party in power more than deliver a Brexit that worked for the people of the UK. She should have worked with Labour who's supporters represented a large chunk of the Leave vote. Putting aside personal preference for a moment, the best Brexit for Britain would have been relatively soft, though stopping short of a Norway model to respect the views of voters who issues with sending money to the EU and the free movement of people.

A customs union could have eased frictions on goods to reassure industry and Scotland as well as giving a framework to avoid issues on the island of Ireland. It would still be worse for the economy than Remaining and there would still be some adherence to EU rules but for the majority it should have provided enough "taking back control" with a small enough economic hit to be (perhaps grudgingly) acceptable.

It's absolutely disgusting that the Government and Parliament have wasted all this time playing political party games instead of getting something done.

[Fundwidth]

We'll try explaining it again, since you seem to struggle with any concept more complex than "hide the nose".

An election puts a party into power for 5 years. To run every aspect of the country; the economy, education, health and so on. It isn't just about Brexit, no matter how much you hold your breath and scweam and scweam and scweam. Just because this is the only thought you can hold in your brain at one time, it doesn't mean it's everyone elses.

There are people sitting on zero hours contracts, paralysed with fear at the insecurity of their lives. They want to get a government that will help them. There are people struggling with the new benefits system, they want a government that will care about their struggles. People going to food banks to survive want a government that will give them their dignity back. People that see their schools being sold off to private concerns against their wishes want to roll back the Academy system and return to an education system that isn't seen as a get-rich quick scheme for some.

And some people want to see the creeping privatisation of the NHS stopped, and indeed reversed.
.

I agree with Dribbles here, albeit from the opposite side of the spectrum.

None of these things are going to change, obviously. The most likely outcome is a tory win, or another tory-lib coalition in which case nothing changes.

If Labour gets in, which is unlikely, its hands will likely be tied by a small majority and/or the other parties. Even if somehow Labour were to win by a landslide you still have 4/5 of the party in the hands of Blairites who will frustrate everything.

This country is controlled by media, financial and political elites. They are not going to permit the type of structural changes to the economy necessary to actually help people. They want Brexit to be the main issue.

You really have to be an incredibly naive centrist to believe the current broken system is going to do anything for ordinary people-that's a major part of the reason why Brexit passed in the first place.

[Mormolyce]

This is actually pretty depressing...

https://www.politico.eu/article/poll...brexit-result/

A majority of voters on both sides of the Brexit debate said violence against MPs is a “price worth paying” in order to get a resolution they favor, according to a survey.

Academics at Cardiff University and the University of Edinburgh found that 71 percent of Leave voters in England, 60 percent in Scotland and 70 percent in Wales believed violence towards lawmakers was a “price worth paying” for Brexit.

Casual reminder to anyone who doesn't remember that an MP was literally murdered by a far right loon for opposing Brexit.

Nice of them to show their true colours I suppose.

- - - Updated - - -

And yet all evidence shows that the UK demands the EU jump and they ask "how high?"

What evidence is that, dribbles?

[draykorinee]

Diane abott continues to be worst of all time tier, a disaster of an MP. What dies Corbyn see in it.

[Northern Goblin]

Extension agreed upon, how long will be determined next week.

People can sheathe their sabres again for a while, you wont need to rattle them for a month at least.

[lagiacrux]

So if the UK gets an extension for more than a couple of weeks, Von der Leyen (we need an abbreviation for her) will insist that the UK nominate a commissioner. What kind of commission would they even have . . .

i mean .... VDL is pretty obvious if you ask me. or am i missing something?

[AeneasBK]

i mean .... VDL is pretty obvious if you ask me. or am i missing something?

Yeah I had very little to contribute but is there a reason VdL wouldn't work?

[Gorsameth]

Extension agreed upon, how long will be determined next week.

People can sheathe their sabres again for a while, you wont need to rattle them for a month at least.

Guess they are waiting to see what the vote for new elections does?
If it does through, long extension. But what if it fails and the impasse continues? A short delay to try and force the UK's hand? Tobad they will just ask for another extension because they aren't resolving this as things stand.

[Mayhem]

If I was the EU I'd just give an indefinite extension, with the condition that the UK would need to inform the EU about at least 6 months ahead when they've got their absolute exit date set in stone. (No take backs).

This way it's out of the EU's hands and the UK can figure it out themselves... and the EU can focus on getting the things done it couldn't with the UK, like a european army and police force.

Yeah, that doesn't work because of the upcoming EU budget decision that the UK must either be part of or out of the EU before it's concluded.

[zealo]

Anyone daydreaming about indefinite extensions are out of their minds.

No matter which way it ends up swinging into, this deadlock that is the Brexit process needs to come to an end.