[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Calfredd]

Sorry but I don't see the bait, could you explain? A Trump/Johnson close working relationship will bring the US/UK together in a way that the world hasn't seen since the glory days of Reagan and Thatcher.

Just what the UK needs now that the EU has been rejected.

So you want to switch your economy to reaganomics? The same reaganomics that has never worked?

[Jessicka]

So you want to switch your economy to reaganomics? The same reaganomics that has never worked?

He's been a staunch advocate of trickle down economics and laffer curves since I've been posting in this thread. In spite of the ideas being thoroughly debunked, he very clearly still wants to believe.

Other ideas he's probably interested in may include climate change denial, anti-vaccine, faked moon landings, and flat earth.

[Gorsameth]

I don't play silly games, sorry.

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Give him a few minutes to Google that and read a little bit on it.

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General election: Farage tells Boris Johnson to 'drop the deal' or face Brexit party challenge
Farage remains quite full of himself.

At this point I am convinced Farage got scared when he realised Brexit might happen and he would lose his job as EU MP, when he can't do anything else.
So now his goal is to sabotage Brexit and keep it in a deadlock while being seen as the Brexit advocate.

[dribbles]

meh, looks more like a fastpass to a dismantled NHS, and a really bad trade deal.

I'm passing out on that one, thank you very much.

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The UK rejected the EU themselves, dont go blaming them... and dont think the reagan + thatcher days return.. AMERICA FIRST. remember that one.

When America booms, the world does too. When America catches an economic cold the world gets pnEUmonia. America first is fine by me.

So you want to switch your economy to reaganomics? The same reaganomics that has never worked?

Brexit shares some similarity with reagonomics and is all about lower personal taxes, deregulation and the removal of our EU overseers. What's not to like about that? Many other EU nations with high unemployment and too much red tape could do with a good dose of it. When they look at the UK post brexit they'll see the light...

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

At this point I am convinced Farage got scared when he realised Brexit might happen and he would lose his job as EU MP, when he can't do anything else.
So now his goal is to sabotage Brexit and keep it in a deadlock while being seen as the Brexit advocate.

Yeah, as soon as Brexit is "done" he loses his platform. Much better for his brand and exposure to enable a Labour coalition government by splitting the Tory vote (while fighting for a True Brexit - whatever that means) so that he can continue to heckle from the side-lines and get his moments on BBC Question Time.

Cynic? Me? Never :P

[Jessicka]

To all the Brits here, and especially to Dribbles:

HAPPY 3rd BREXIT DAY!

I don't know about you, but I'm really looking forward to our fourth No-Brexit day in 3 months.

[Kallisto]

Sorry but I don't see the bait, could you explain? A Trump/Johnson close working relationship will bring the US/UK together in a way that the world hasn't seen since the glory days of Reagan and Thatcher.

Just what the UK needs now that the EU has been rejected.

More like how Bliar was accused to Bush, but instead of being called poodle it will be the lame bitch.

[Mormolyce]

FTFY.

BTW, why is it all these shooters and such have a history of mental illness?

When it's a right wing terrorist, it's "mental illness", when it's a mentally ill guy yelling about ISIS it's a massive conspiracy by the evil religion of Islam.

You learn that trick from American propagandists? Lel.

[tehealadin]

Brexit shares some similarity with reagonomics and is all about lower personal taxes, deregulation and the removal of our EU overseers. What's not to like about that? Many other EU nations with high unemployment and too much red tape could do with a good dose of it. When they look at the UK post brexit they'll see the light...

How will Boris fund the partial reversal to public service cuts with lowering tax?
On the issue of deregulation, which regulations do you feel are bad and holding us back, is there any form of deregulation as a result of brexit that you would oppose?

[tehealadin]

I wonder what will happen with the NHS. Boris says it isn't for sale, so that probably means it is, he consistently lies. The issue that I want to see them pushed on more is drug prices. We know that Trump wants us to pay more for US drugs. And US drugs companies have been spending fortunes lobbying ministers.

[Gorsameth]

I wonder what will happen with the NHS. Boris says it isn't for sale, so that probably means it is, he consistently lies. The issue that I want to see them pushed on more is drug prices. We know that Trump wants us to pay more for US drugs. And US drugs companies have been spending fortunes lobbying ministers.

The UK needs the US, the US doesn't need the UK.
What happens when Trump says "no trade deal without the NHS being on the table"?

[Kallisto]

I wonder what will happen with the NHS. Boris says it isn't for sale, so that probably means it is, he consistently lies. The issue that I want to see them pushed on more is drug prices. We know that Trump wants us to pay more for US drugs. And US drugs companies have been spending fortunes lobbying ministers.

What the strongest wants the strongest gets. When America says "Put NHS for sale." The NHS goes for sale at a knock down price. It's not really a Trump thing though, he's just most brazen about it. Lobbies in the US would love to find a weak but first world nation to exploit. Medical lobby, farming lobby especially. Expect UK standards to be forced so low it would be the only way for the US to get their goods into the market and for UK farms to compete.

[tehealadin]

The UK needs the US, the US doesn't need the UK.
What happens when Trump says "no trade deal without the NHS being on the table"?

This is all assuming that one can happen. We will see what happens with Ireland. That could be a significant barrier if Northern Ireland gets fucked over, or even feels like it got fucked over, and the security situation deteriorates. You are right though, if Trump wants the NHS on the table, the Tories will oblige. Many would love to see that happen anyway, the very concept of an NHS is disgusting to many Tories, especially the current crop in cabinet.

[Fandasiril]

I wonder what will happen with the NHS. Boris says it isn't for sale, so that probably means it is, he consistently lies. The issue that I want to see them pushed on more is drug prices. We know that Trump wants us to pay more for US drugs. And US drugs companies have been spending fortunes lobbying ministers.

The NHS has basically already been sold. It used to be entirely owned by the state, but in the last decade most of the management of the state has been sold to the private sector. The only reason you never read anything about it is that access is still free at the point of use so no one actually notices much, but the underlying change is huge.

You'd have to be very naive to believe the private companies that have captured the infrastructure won't start charging for usage: they will do so piecemeal. They've already started charging the earth for car parks. The government is de-regulating this very slowly so that there isn't a huge backlash. You'll Just wake up one day and you'll have to pay for treatment, and you won't even remember when that became commonplace.

To some extent Trump is actually doing everyone a service by drawing attention to the NHS privatization: the Tories were doing a very good job of sneaking it in without any one noticing and Trump's blundering clumsiness has highighted the issue and made that harder.

[tehealadin]

What the strongest wants the strongest gets. When America says "Put NHS for sale." The NHS goes for sale at a knock down price. It's not really a Trump thing though, he's just most brazen about it. Lobbies in the US would love to find a weak but first world nation to exploit. Medical lobby, farming lobby especially. Expect UK standards to be forced so low it would be the only way for the US to get their goods into the market and for UK farms to compete.

It just amazes me that so many people here dislike foreigners so much that it overwhelms their like of the NHS. The one silver lining for me is that I am Scottish. I voted for the Union last time. Next time, I don't know. I'd always seen myself as British, never been a nationalist. However I really don't like what has happened to primarily England (Wales also, to a lesser extent). That they consistently deliver these governments, who do these things, and to be honest I really think the worst is yet to come (I really hope I am wrong), I need to ask myself, is this a union I really want to be part of? I know a lot of people who feel the same way. There has been a culling of moderate tories, to be replaced by more libertarian ones. They terrify me. And I don't accept that this is the same as the way most Brexiters see the EU. The EU isn't trying to privatise national assets that tens of millions rely on. The EU, whilst it has problems and it has policies that I don't agree with, doesn't have such public contempt for the average worker in the same way that the current cabinet does (they view UK workers as the laziest in the world*). They are demonstrably nowhere near as nasty (many in the Tory cabinet are there to punish poor people), or as interested in the exploitation and disassembling of the UK in the same way that the Brexit mob are.

*=These tend to be people who on majority were born into privilege, who, through family connections etc were able to easily find their way into high paying jobs, many of them in roles were they "consult" for insane fees for very little actual work, yet feel fine decrying someone working 60+ hour weeks in manual labour and other "menial" jobs as lazy. The lack of awareness is insane. Any many of these people who they got into politics to lay waste to actively support them, they vote them into power, because for the most part, they don't like foreigners, so all they have to do is frame their policies as sticking it to Johnny Foreigner, and the intended victims fucking fall for it.

[Fandasiril]

That they consistently deliver these governments, who do these things, and to be honest I really think the worst is yet to come (I really hope I am wrong), I need to ask myself, is this a union I really want to be part of? I know a lot of people who feel the same way.

There's a lack of self-awareness there. You are criticizing people for voting because they don't like foreigners, but you are considering voting for the snp because why? Do you really think Sturgeon et al are going to be so keen on spending on public services when the money isn't coming from Westminster? They are basically scottish ukip.

You basically gave a perfect explanation of why people vote against their own economic interest. It is not just that they don't like foreigners, they also believe people of their own race will protect them-they don't.

[tehealadin]

There's a lack of self-awareness there. You are criticizing people for voting because they don't like foreigners, but you are considering voting for the snp because why? Do you really think Sturgeon et al are going to be so keen on spending on public services when the money isn't coming from Westminster? They are basically scottish ukip.

You basically gave a perfect explanation of why people vote against their own economic interest. It is not just that they don't like foreigners, they also believe people of their own race will protect them-they don't.

Well that is just rubbish.

I won't vote SNP, firstly, never have, never will. You don't need to vote SNP to consider independence, or vote for it.

That being said, the SNP are nothing like UKIP. They are not far right. They are clearly left of centre. The argument for Scotland leaving the UK is utterly different to the UK leaving the EU. In that Scotland voted to remain in the EU but are forced to leave anyway. In that the people of Scotland effectively have no say in the UK election, everyone can vote for SNP, it won't have any meaningful impact on the UK government makeup, what England votes for is what matters. The UK has far more of a say in EU matters than Scotland does in UK matters. So it is a far more unequal relationship. That isn't simply opinion, it is just a fact. And it makes sense why this is so, the population difference is such that it demands it. You can't have a such a small minority of Scots dictating massively important issues for the whole of the UK. However only a blind ideologue can ignore this problem, and it is a clear problem if you are in Scotland, pulling one way, and England is pulling in a vastly different direction.

Scottish independence isn't simply a product of racism, like most Brexit people. I won't deny that many just want it because they hate the English, it is one of the reasons I dislike the SNP and have until now resisted their cause. However there are very strong arguments that go beyond that. The same isn't true of Brexit. Whilst there are good arguments against the EU that don't involve hating foreigners, in the grand scheme of things it is hard to argue that they are strong enough on their own to justify leaving, I mean you could, but I don't know how many non racists you could convince. I don't hate the English. However even I cannot ignore the unequal relationship within the UK. The single biggest factor in Brexit is that a significant core of English people hate Poles and Muslims. Take that away and Brexit collapses. Remove anti English sentiment and the Scottish independence movement remains- that is a crucial and significant difference. You are comparing apples and oranges here.

The idea that Scotland relies on Westminster grants is just wrong. Scotland pays in more than it takes out, maybe not by much but it is still a surplus. And with a reduction in defense budgets, that figure would also change. The economic hit wouldn't be as bad as the UK economic hit when Brexit happens. We also have a government and populace who want strong public services. For all of the faults of the SNP, they are not inherently anti public service, anti NHS. The Tories are. The only way that the SNP would betray public services is if there was literally no money. And that wouldn't be the case. There may be a temporary reduction in some services as Scotland adjusts, but once back inside the EU and the economic hit recovers, there is no reason to think that the government of Scotland won't commit to strengthening public services. We know for a fact that the government of the UK want to rip up public services. More apples and oranges.

Fuck, this is the first time in my life I have ever defended the SNP and the independence movement.

[dribbles]

To all the Brits here, and especially to Dribbles:

HAPPY 3rd BREXIT DAY!

You are too kind, we won't see a 4th.

How will Boris fund the partial reversal to public service cuts with lowering tax?
On the issue of deregulation, which regulations do you feel are bad and holding us back, is there any form of deregulation as a result of brexit that you would oppose?

£350 million a week is quite a lot of spondoolies to splash around. Did you miss the Boris bus? I would oppose all regulations that were imposed on the UK by the EU empire. There should be a bonfire of unnecessary regulations.

In other news latest Westminster voting intention:

CON: 42% (+2)
LAB: 26% (+2)
LDEM: 16% (+1)
BREX: 9% (-1)
GRN: 2% (-1)

https://twitter.com/britainelects/st...905698816?s=20

Up, Up and Up we Brexiteers go!

[Gorsameth]

Oh boy, someone still doesn't know the Brexit Bus was a lie.

[Temp name]

£350 million a week is quite a lot of spondoolies to splash around. Did you miss the Boris bus?

350m a week would be ~18 billion a year. A decent amount, but then you remember that the UK has a GDP of around 2.5 trillion, so.. 0.1%? Not too bad

Oh, and the bus was debunked, numerous times, the actual figure is lower