[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Pann]

'Is this the quote of the election campaign so far? From Conrad Black, @BorisJohnson’s former boss. “I think that he is perhaps a little reckless with the truth compared to the average successful person”. And Black is a Johnson supporter. See full interview at 10.45, ITV'

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1194737141647134725

Brilliant!

[Gorsameth]

Johnson made no attempt to get no deal through Parliament - no deal was always a bluff to pass his deal.

Right... that's why he lied to the Queen and had parliament send home in the lead up. Because he wanted them ready to accept his deal, the one he wasn't negotiation until no-deal was taken off the table by Parliament forcing him to ask for an extension.

The EU didn't give in to offer Boris that deal, that deal was also put on the table with May but she rejected it for the obvious reason of it breaking up the Union by placing Northern Ireland effectively outside the UK. No amount of 'no-deal' threats will make the EU compromise on their red lines, they don't want a no-deal Brexit because its bad financially (its worse for the UK, don't worry) but they will take it if they have to. They have been preparing for the possibility for a hell of a lot longer then the UK has been...

It wasn't and still isn't a bluff. Boris totally wants to exit with no agreement.

[Pann]

Right... that's why he lied to the Queen and had parliament send home in the lead up. Because he wanted them ready to accept his deal, the one he wasn't negotiation until no-deal was taken off the table by Parliament forcing him to ask for an extension.

The EU didn't give in to offer Boris that deal, that deal was also put on the table with May but she rejected it for the obvious reason of it breaking up the Union by placing Northern Ireland effectively outside the UK. No amount of 'no-deal' threats will make the EU compromise on their red lines, they don't want a no-deal Brexit because its bad financially (its worse for the UK, don't worry) but they will take it if they have to. They have been preparing for the possibility for a hell of a lot longer then the UK has been...

It wasn't and still isn't a bluff. Boris totally wants to exit with no agreement.

The prorogation of parliament was not to force no-deal.

The threat of no-deal was largely for domestic politicians and not the EU.

Yes, Johnson is so keen on no-deal that he negotiated a (new-ish) deal when the EU had said that they would not reopen negotiations surely he would not have bothered if no-deal was his end goal? And why are the Tories pushing their deal and the (perhaps unrealistic) prospect of completing a UK-EU trade deal by the end of next year if they aim to leave without an agreement?

[Gorsameth]

The prorogation of parliament was not to force no-deal.

The threat of no-deal was largely for domestic politicians and not the EU.

Yes, Johnson is so keen on no-deal that he negotiated a (new-ish) deal when the EU had said that they would not reopen negotiations surely he would not have bothered if no-deal was his end goal? And why are the Tories pushing their deal and the (perhaps unrealistic) prospect of completing a UK-EU trade deal by the end of next year if they aim to leave without an agreement?

??
Fine, I'll explain it again.

He bothered with his deal because he was never getting a no-deal with Parliament as it was. So he tried it via the backdoor.
Why are they pushing for this deal when they want a no-deal? Because they are not getting a no-deal. This deal will give them the possibility of a no-deal by not having the trade agreement resolved by the end of 2020.

He could have sat on his hands and did nothing while waiting for an election but then it looks a lot less favourable for him because he was shouting a lot about getting the UK out while doing nothing to get it out. With the deal he can claim he tried but the fault lies with Parliament.

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So what he is explaining there is basically: "Sure we'll make the deal with the EU, but we won't actually follow what's in it."

The point of goods made in NI that will be shipped to the rest of the UK not suffering from tariffs is, as far as I understand it, actually correct. Tho there will no doubt be more paperwork involved because of this.
The problem isn't goods moving for NI to the UK but from the UK to NI where everything will have to be checked if its going to NI or the EU and tariffs paid accordingly.

[mojojojo202]

Worst NHS performance figures ever, figures that have been rapidly declining since the Tories had a majority in Parliament. Amazing that they have the cheek to say Labour would cripple the NHS...

[Pann]

??
Fine, I'll explain it again.

He bothered with his deal because he was never getting a no-deal with Parliament as it was. So he tried it via the backdoor.
Why are they pushing for this deal when they want a no-deal? Because they are not getting a no-deal. This deal will give them the possibility of a no-deal by not having the trade agreement resolved by the end of 2020.

He could have sat on his hands and did nothing while waiting for an election but then it looks a lot less favourable for him because he was shouting a lot about getting the UK out while doing nothing to get it out. With the deal he can claim he tried but the fault lies with Parliament.

How does negotiating a new deal enable Johnson to get no-deal through parliament?

If no-deal was his end game Johnson could have quite easily done nothing - Erskine-May meant that May's deal could not be brought before the House again and Parliament has no authority to sidestep the Government and negotiate directly with the EU - and then blamed the EU for refusing to renegotiate.

Instead the government has negotiated a deal, they have allowed an amendment that would allow May's deal to return, the Tories are going into an election campaign backing their deal and most recently refused to side with Nigel Farage when he insisted that the deal be dropped in return for BXP aid in the upcoming GE.

Johnson's insistence that the UK will not extend the transition period past 2020 is election bluff and bluster but is also coupled with the commitment to have agreed a trade agreement completed before this deadline.

Johnson does not need a deal to lay blame at Parliament's feet - this is a ridiculous theory - the default of the EU Withdrawal Act is that the UK will leave without a deal unless one is agreed and they had already rejected the only available deal three times.

[Gorsameth]

How does negotiating a new deal enable Johnson to get no-deal through parliament?

If no-deal was his end game Johnson could have quite easily done nothing - Erskine-May meant that May's deal could not be brought before the House again and Parliament has no authority to sidestep the Government and negotiate directly with the EU - and then blamed the EU for refusing to renegotiate.

Instead the government has negotiated a deal, they have allowed an amendment that would allow May's deal to return, the Tories are going into an election campaign backing their deal and most recently refused to side with Nigel Farage when he insisted that the deal be dropped in return for BXP aid in the upcoming GE.

Johnson's insistence that the UK will not extend the transition period past 2020 is election bluff and bluster but is also coupled with the commitment to have agreed a trade agreement completed before this deadline.

Johnson does not need a deal to lay blame at Parliament's feet - this is a ridiculous theory - the default of the EU Withdrawal Act is that the UK will leave without a deal unless one is agreed and they had already rejected the only available deal three times.

Boris couldn't get no-deal through Parliament because Parliament simply forces him to ask for an extension, like they did.

Parliament doesn't need to negotiate with the EU, they can simply keep forcing extensions and leave the UK hanging in the EU.
Like they already did several times.

And for the 3e time. Boris's deal offers a back door to a no-deal exit via the end of transition in 2020. At which points its practically impossible to have a finished trade agreement.

[dribbles]

The working class know where their bread is buttered.

Working class voters flock to Boris Johnson: PM opens up a TWENTY POINT lead among lower income voters as they desert Jeremy Corbyn's Labour over Brexit ahead of the general election

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...me-voters.html

Looks like the working class in rejecting Corbyns Labour say let's get brexit done!

[draykorinee]

The lowest educated voting for things to be worse for themselves is hardly a new thing.

[Pann]

Boris couldn't get no-deal through Parliament because Parliament simply forces him to ask for an extension, like they did.

Parliament doesn't need to negotiate with the EU, they can simply keep forcing extensions and leave the UK hanging in the EU.
Like they already did several times.

And for the 3e time. Boris's deal offers a back door to a no-deal exit via the end of transition in 2020. At which points its practically impossible to have a finished trade agreement.

And? This still does not prove your point.

Parliament cannot keep forcing extensions as it is reliant on the EU agreeing and again this does not prove your point.

He could do nothing and no deal would be achieved in a less convoluted and quicker manner. It may well be impossible to agree a FTA by the end of 2020 however it is far more likely that Johnson will, as he has time and time again, go back on his word and extend the transition period. Quite frankly your entire argument is nonsense.

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Leavers will no doubt riled by this news and it is likely to be an unexpected boost to Johnson's campaign.

"The European Commission has started infringement proceedings against the UK for not nominating a new EU Commissioner - as instructed to do by EU leaders - even if the UK only remains in the bloc till end of Jan

The Johnson government had said it was unable under UK law to nominate a new Commissioner because the UK was in the lead-up to general elex but European Commission pointed out that -as EU member, EU law trumps domestic law. The Commission is the ‘guardian of EU laws’"

https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/st...33574531063809

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Nigel turns his hand to comedy!

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/sta...286509568?s=20

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I'd say Farage shouldn't quit his day job, but with him refusing to stand for election as leader of his party, and standing down half of his candidates I'm not sure what that would be anymore.

[Pann]

The BXP are throwing around some very serious accusations...

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1195071892413198336

https://twitter.com/DanJohnsonNews/s...71223522299904

... but for some reason they have decided not to report these transgressions to the authorities.

[Kronik85]

The BXP are throwing around some very serious accusations...

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1195071892413198336

https://twitter.com/DanJohnsonNews/s...71223522299904

... but for some reason they have decided not to report these transgressions to the authorities.

Not to actually give these claims credit but if they were to be true we certainly wouldn't want politicians holding politicians to account, it would almost resemble a working democracy or something.

[Pann]

Not to actually give these claims credit but if they were to be true we certainly wouldn't want politicians holding politicians to account, it would almost resemble a working democracy or something.

Ah, but the Lib Dems (or someone from Twitter with a Lib Dem picture) have taken up the mantle of protecting our democracy!

https://twitter.com/robblackie/statu...31436843667460

However I think this is quite obviously a wind up on the part of Farage - I mean c'mon Nigel even tells his supporters 'I got principles' and no-one can possibly believe that!

[dribbles]

Yeah, that's bullshit from people who don't understand how social grading works. Note the complete absence of any source for the data.

In other news Labour are leading amongst rich industrialists according to this graph I didn't just make up, FIGURES SHOW.

From the same comres survey 40% of AB voters back Boris. His appeal is higher from working class, up 35% from 2 years ago, DE voters at 43%.

Obviously the Tories are now the party of Labour, you could say for the many not the few. Is there anyone left that openly admits to, as Boris calls him "the onanist", voting for Corbyn?

UK opinion polls: Conservative Party to win more support from working class voters than upper class this election

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4286956.html

Seems as though Boris is hoovering up left right and centre, whilst Corbyn is too busy with his right hand...

[Pann]

Ooh....

'Brexit Party tells me it is now compiling a dossier of complaints from its candidates of alleged inducements and bullying from senior Tories to persuade them to step down. @GawainTowler tells me he is “shocked” by what he says this reveals about the “sense of entitlement” in the Conservative Party. “This election was never really about Brexit” he says. “It was all about the Tory Party”. The Conservatives deny all this. But if the mud sticks, @BorisJohnson’s election ambitions will be hurt'

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1195100014663610369

I'd laugh my arse off if Nigel cost the Tories the election and by extension lost Brexit!

[sircaw]

Ooh....

'Brexit Party tells me it is now compiling a dossier of complaints from its candidates of alleged inducements and bullying from senior Tories to persuade them to step down. @GawainTowler tells me he is “shocked” by what he says this reveals about the “sense of entitlement” in the Conservative Party. “This election was never really about Brexit” he says. “It was all about the Tory Party”. The Conservatives deny all this. But if the mud sticks, @BorisJohnson’s election ambitions will be hurt'

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1195100014663610369

I'd laugh my arse off if Nigel cost the Tories the election and by extension lost Brexit!

I am curious to see how they bully an opposing parties candidate. I mean what do you actually threaten them with, if your in a different party.

[Pann]

I am curious to see how they bully an opposing parties candidate. I mean what do you actually threaten them with, if your in a different party.

They wait behind the bike sheds and then when an unsuspecting BXP candidate walks past Michael Gove and JRM along with some of the tougher Tories like Angela Leadsom and Priti Patel jump out and demand that the poor BXP candidate hand over their lunch money... I mean... seat.

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On another note Labour are promising free broadband (that's broadband not forum logins) for all - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

I can't wait until the Tories try to outdo them more free stuff... fingers crossed for a 65" flat screen and they may as well throw in free Sky as well what with Murdoch being all Tory like.

[sircaw]

I would be careful of Michael Gove he has been known to wield a dagger or two.

[Kallisto]

All this news coming out with Tories maybe trying to bribe brexit party members to step down, Corbyn going to get himself heckled. It's like everyone is deep down trying to lose.