View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #24041
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Except there is a whole wide world beside the EU and the UK.

    Yes the creation of the EU has allowed to bolster trade and circulation of people between its members, but at the same time it has erected additional barriers towards the rest of the world.
    Really? Cause I'm pretty sure Slant already posted about the EU's highly extensive network of trade deals which it has managed to negotiate despite being a far from unified bloc.

    The barriers it's erected have been entirely for the benefit of local industries in the EU. You can thank them for the fact that every dairy in Heibei province isn't churning out Gruyere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #24042
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Really? Cause I'm pretty sure Slant already posted about the EU's highly extensive network of trade deals which it has managed to negotiate despite being a far from unified bloc.

    The barriers it's erected have been entirely for the benefit of local industries in the EU. You can thank them for the fact that every dairy in Heibei province isn't churning out Gruyere.
    Like how well TTIP or even CETA are progressing and being locally received?

    Such good trade agreements that now instead they are churning the likes of high-tech trains, cars and the likes from appropriated tech?

    Edit : not to mention that the Chinese public would rather buy dairy from the EU than the domestic, melamin-laced variations.
    Last edited by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang; 2020-02-11 at 12:36 PM.
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"

  3. #24043
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    First, I am not even living in the EU, nor the UK, and we slap tariffs on both EU and non EU products anyway, depending on our own trade agreements, and freely slap taxes on them on our own, notably a low, EU-incompatible VAT rate of 7.7%, which make most goods imported from far away cheaper than in neighboring EU countries, despite being a landlocked country.

    Second: ever heard of free ports, of which there are a great number across the EU?

    Third, you are blatantly ignoring several specificities the UK:
    -the UK, is, well, surrounded by the sea, which makes redistribution from a port on another continent a little bit more complex, and costly than on the mainland
    -in turn, being an island, the UK has always been well endowed with harbors
    -tonnage from major UK harbors is like an order of magnitude higher than Eurotunnel traffic
    -each countries can have differing requirements in matter of imported goods : we don't eat the same stuff, we don't wear the same clothes, we don't have the same electric plugs, we don't drive on the same side of the road, etc...
    Exactly, according to trade agreements. Apparently that didn't ring a bell.

    So these free ports are already established and well working. What incentive have companies to change service?

    Wait, so you're telling me being surrounded by the sea makes redistribution from a port on another continent a little bit more complex and costly? Wasn't that what I was saying the whole time? Now follow me here, do you think it's more costly and complex if the continent in question is even farther away?

    The UK is so well endowed with harbors that out of the 10 busiest harbors in the EU it has one in the top 10 on rank 7. That is truly amazing.

    Yep, it is, what is your point? I already explained to you what I was talking about.

    And I use different electric plugs and you know what, manufacturers just include different connectors and are done with it, I have plugs that are designed for British sockets with half my electrics for spare.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  4. #24044
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Like how well TTIP or even CETA are progressing and being locally received?
    I uhm, TTIP died exactly because the EU protected its businesses against the US. What's your point?

    Are you arguing that not selling out is equal to erecting additional barriers?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  5. #24045
    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Like how well TTIP or even CETA are progressing and being locally received?

    Such good trade agreements that now instead they are churning the likes of high-tech trains, cars and the likes from appropriated tech?

    Edit : not to mention that the Chinese public would rather buy dairy from the EU than the domestic, melamin-laced variations.
    TTIP is pretty much dead, because the EU correctly put a stop to it due to outrageous demands from the US (private companies being able to sue European nations or even the EU itself before a US civil court, for example). See, that's what the EU is there for, they are pros and they don't agree to every bullshit because the EU can afford to say no and just walk away. There's an entire fucking planet that wants to deal with us.

    CETA and the Belgian resistance demonstrates democracy at work in the EU. Even if you're some tiny little minority region, yes, you can absolutely block an entire deal between the EU and Canada. That is by design and most of us in the EU would rather have a deal blocked than abandon proper democratic structures and giving even the little man a proper voice in the proceedings.

    No idea what you're talking about... churning who exactly? And what does churning mean in this context?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Except there is a whole wide world beside the EU and the UK.

    Yes the creation of the EU has allowed to bolster trade and circulation of people between its members, but at the same time it has erected additional barriers towards the rest of the world.
    Bullshit. The EU has a big network of trade deals that have the sole aim to reduce barriers. The trade deals of the EU customarily REDUCE prices on both sides and make trade easier. Of course the EU is protecting its markets. From bullshit zero quality rip offs, dangerous and unsafe goods, food sources that provide a danger to our health. People like you seem to have no clue how the world works. They go "Oh, so the EU introduced custom tariffs up to 10%"

    Well, yeah. But the WTO term was more like 20%. That is the real world. WTO terms are shit. They are REALLY bad. People have got to look at the shit and realise just how bad it is before they come here and whinge about the EU introducing negotiated customs that are lower than WTO terms! And the biggest caveat is that the EU insists on maintaining EU regulations. Because, let's be honest, most places don't have this extensive set of customer protection and technical rules and their stuff would fuck up our standard of living if we just let them swamp our continent.

    Don't like it? Zero. That is the aproximate amount of fucks we give. Make your stuff safe, healthy and within regulations and we'll be happy to accept the competition. Try to sell chicken legs from a corona infested market in China to the EU and you can go to hell as far as we're concerned.
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  6. #24046
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    We seem to be doing quite well at present, huh.

    UK economy saw zero growth at the end of 2019

    The UK economy actually did better than some rivals, despite stagnating in the last quarter.

    We don’t have all the GDP reports for Q4 yet, but as things stand we know that America and Spain did OK while France and Italy shrank. China was the standout performer, even though annual growth dropped to a 30-year low.

    China: +1.5% quarter-on-quarter growth in October-December
    US: +0.5%
    Spain: +0.5%
    Eurozone: +0.1%
    UK: zero growth
    France: GDP shrank by 0.1%
    Italy: GDP shrank by 0.3%
    On an annual basis, the UK is mid-table too:

    Thats from the Guardian

    The GDP report also showed that the UK economy grew by 1.4% during 2019.

    That’s faster than the eurozone, where France’s economy shrank 0.1% during the last quarter.

    I watched sky news this morning and said it was in line what economists predicted and that the Imf expected the uk to bounce back in the next quarter and show sighs of growth again.

    So not the best news but not terrible.

  7. #24047

    So not the best news but not terrible.
    However bad the economy is doing somewhere will always be worse.

    We are outperforming Somalia! Yay!

    (EDIT: I checked. We are actually under-performing Somalia...)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post

    And as for your bwahhhaaaha over the Sinn Fein result in Ireland, with the same policies as Corbyn on steroids, well that's a win for Boris. When they start taxing the likes of Amazon, Google, Intel currently in Dublin until the pips squeak, where do you think they will go? England with the newly created Singapore upon Thames just across the water from Europe will be the winner.
    I think you'll find that the Shinners are quite effective dribbles. They got where they are for a reason: they are very good at making socialism work on a practical level. If you have a leaky pipe they send someone round to fix it: this is why they succeed where the English Labour party mostly doesn't. You'll find that they do pretty well at keeping the US corporations on-board while maintaining their core vote.

    Unfortunately they hate the English with a passion and could plausibly start trying to kill us again now they potentially have the resources of a nation-state at their disposal.
    Last edited by Trandwithd; 2020-02-11 at 07:50 PM.

  8. #24048
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Exactly, according to trade agreements. Apparently that didn't ring a bell.
    In our case according to trade agreements negociated outside the EU, tailored to our need. So your point?

    So these free ports are already established and well working. What incentive have companies to change service?
    Ergo your doom and gloom scenario is not gonna happen. And on the contrary the UK will be allowed to create Free Ports independently from EU regulations that tended to limit them to "catching-up" new members.

    Wait, so you're telling me being surrounded by the sea makes redistribution from a port on another continent a little bit more complex and costly? Wasn't that what I was saying the whole time? Now follow me here, do you think it's more costly and complex if the continent in question is even farther away?
    I'm saying that trucking from a major port on another continent is much more complex and costly. We've already established it to be cheaper to ship it from the other side of the world regardless of destination harbor.

    The UK is so well endowed with harbors that out of the 10 busiest harbors in the EU it has one in the top 10 on rank 7. That is truly amazing.
    Looking at a map you'll notice that most countries on the mainland rely on 1 or 2 gateways depending on their geography : limited/divided coastline, major river basin, vast hinterland, being landlocked. Its only logical that their traffic is much more concentrated. Notice that some benefit from Free Port status.
    On the other hand, you'll notice that the UK consists of islands with several centers, connected by harbors, which since ancient times have allowed the easy movement of good, litteraly around the country. It is only logical that tonnage is divided over their numerous harbor, as 1/5 of tonnage is shipping between british harbors.

    And I use different electric plugs and you know what, manufacturers just include different connectors and are done with it, I have plugs that are designed for British sockets with half my electrics for spare.
    Still doesn't work for cars.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I uhm, TTIP died exactly because the EU protected its businesses against the US. What's your point?

    Are you arguing that not selling out is equal to erecting additional barriers?
    That plus Trump put his nose in it. Result : there is no trade agreement, so which trade agreements are you talking about?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    TTIP is pretty much dead, because the EU correctly put a stop to it due to outrageous demands from the US (private companies being able to sue European nations or even the EU itself before a US civil court, for example). See, that's what the EU is there for, they are pros and they don't agree to every bullshit because the EU can afford to say no and just walk away. There's an entire fucking planet that wants to deal with us.

    CETA and the Belgian resistance demonstrates democracy at work in the EU. Even if you're some tiny little minority region, yes, you can absolutely block an entire deal between the EU and Canada. That is by design and most of us in the EU would rather have a deal blocked than abandon proper democratic structures and giving even the little man a proper voice in the proceedings.
    I was refering to Elegiac's post touting the ability of the EU to enable trade agreements. So far I don't see any. On the other hand, we, a non-EU country, already have a number tailored to our needs.

    No idea what you're talking about... churning who exactly? And what does churning mean in this context?
    Churning out, my bad, again I was referring to Elegiac's post thanking the EU trade agreements for protecting us from chinese Gruyère, pointing at the fact that they did not prevent the siphoning of european advanced-technology. So instead of producing knock-off cheese, chinese factories will build knock-off cars, trains, airplanes and the likes. A stellar accomplishment.

    Bullshit. The EU has a big network of trade deals that have the sole aim to reduce barriers. The trade deals of the EU customarily REDUCE prices on both sides and make trade easier. Of course the EU is protecting its markets. From bullshit zero quality rip offs, dangerous and unsafe goods, food sources that provide a danger to our health. People like you seem to have no clue how the world works. They go "Oh, so the EU introduced custom tariffs up to 10%"

    Well, yeah. But the WTO term was more like 20%. That is the real world. WTO terms are shit. They are REALLY bad. People have got to look at the shit and realise just how bad it is before they come here and whinge about the EU introducing negotiated customs that are lower than WTO terms! And the biggest caveat is that the EU insists on maintaining EU regulations. Because, let's be honest, most places don't have this extensive set of customer protection and technical rules and their stuff would fuck up our standard of living if we just let them swamp our continent.

    Don't like it? Zero. That is the aproximate amount of fucks we give. Make your stuff safe, healthy and within regulations and we'll be happy to accept the competition. Try to sell chicken legs from a corona infested market in China to the EU and you can go to hell as far as we're concerned.
    Again, we, as a non-EU country, have our own trade deals that allow us to bolster trade on both ends. And when it comes to quality and safety, well, there is increasing concern that a number of EU products aren't holding to our own standards.
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"

  9. #24049
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Bullshit. The EU has a big network of trade deals that have the sole aim to reduce barriers. The trade deals of the EU customarily REDUCE prices on both sides and make trade easier. Of course the EU is protecting its markets. From bullshit zero quality rip offs, dangerous and unsafe goods, food sources that provide a danger to our health. People like you seem to have no clue how the world works. They go "Oh, so the EU introduced custom tariffs up to 10%".
    Care to explain how in CETA the current stance of the EU "prove that it's safe" is revered to "you can sue when proven unsafe". Or how companies can sue local governments if their decisions undermine the companies investments. Or how the import of meat containing grow hormones forbidden currently in EU is possible with CETA. And that's not just CETA, the same is happening with the deals with Ukraine where importing (especially) meat from chickens not compliant with EU laws all of a sudden is allowed?

    Belgium is not alone in their resistance to CETA, there are a lot more countries. But since the agreements are already being enacted since September 21, 2017 it's futile for solitary countries to go against it.

  10. #24050
    Quote Originally Posted by Trandwithd View Post
    Unfortunately they hate the English with a passion and could plausibly start trying to kill us again now they potentially have the resources of a nation-state at their disposal.
    I was surprised no one had yet mentioned the bomb found at the HGV depot in Northern Ireland. I mean, sure they phoned it in in advance, they aren't monsters; but would have thought it was almost bigger news than "some people got a few scratches at the weekend from a guy with a knife"
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    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  11. #24051
    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Again, we, as a non-EU country, have our own trade deals that allow us to bolster trade on both ends. And when it comes to quality and safety, well, there is increasing concern that a number of EU products aren't holding to our own standards.
    Andean countries
    CARIFORUM trade bloc
    Central America
    Chile
    Eastern and Southern Africa (ESA) trade bloc 
    Faroe Islands
    Georgia
    Iceland and Norway
    Israel
    Jordan
    Kosovo
    Lebanon
    Liechtenstein
    Morocco
    Pacific states
    Palestinian Authority
    Southern Africa Customs Union and Mozambique (SACUM) trade bloc
    South Korea
    Switzerland
    Tunisia

    Those are the countries that you have trade agreements in place when you leave the EU. Taken from this: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade...no-deal-brexit

    I mean, apart from you touting these small population countries as the salvation, let's pick one and see what it entails:

    In the CARIFORUM-UK EPA, the UK commits to providing immediate duty-free, quota-free access to goods exported from these 12 CARIFORUM states.

    In exchange, these 12 CARIFORUM states commit to gradual tariff liberalisation of goods. Some domestically sensitive products in these CARIFORUM states are excluded from tariff liberalisation.
    You are being owned by the Caribbeans. THE CARRIBEANS! I realise they're practically pirates, but really... this isn't benefitting you. This is benefitting them. They can sell you all their shit while they get to protect their markets against you.

    If you think that's a win I have a bridge to sell you.

    That's what blocs do. That's why they are important. That's why everyone on this planet told you Brexit was a dumb idea. And yet, here we are, pointing out the obvious to you, from your own Governments website... and I know you'll refuse to listen, refuse to acknowledge and refuse to see reason... because being right on the internet is more important than, you know, making the right decision.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Boy View Post
    Care to explain how in CETA the current stance of the EU "prove that it's safe" is revered to "you can sue when proven unsafe". Or how companies can sue local governments if their decisions undermine the companies investments. Or how the import of meat containing grow hormones forbidden currently in EU is possible with CETA. And that's not just CETA, the same is happening with the deals with Ukraine where importing (especially) meat from chickens not compliant with EU laws all of a sudden is allowed?

    Belgium is not alone in their resistance to CETA, there are a lot more countries. But since the agreements are already being enacted since September 21, 2017 it's futile for solitary countries to go against it.
    That's how.

    ARTICLE 2.11 Import and export restrictions
    2. If a Party adopts or maintains a prohibition or restriction on the importation from or

    exportation to a third country of a good, that Party may:

    (a) limit or prohibit the importation from the territory of the other Party of a good of that third

    country; or

    (b) limit or prohibit the exportation of a good to that third country through the territory of the

    other Party.
    I'll never figure out why you lot keep parroting blogshitpages and start arguing when clearly you have no fucking clue about any of this.
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  12. #24052
    In the CARIFORUM-UK EPA, the UK commits to providing immediate duty-free, quota-free access to goods exported from these 12 CARIFORUM states.

    In exchange, these 12 CARIFORUM states commit to gradual tariff liberalisation of goods. Some domestically sensitive products in these CARIFORUM states are excluded from tariff liberalisation.
    This is as big surrender of terms in negotiations than when Trump basically came out of North Korea saying "Yeah we'll loosen sanctions while you someday down the road one day will pull back on your nuclear wishes."

  13. #24053
    Just to add... I talked a few posts ago about how the EU is prepared to walk away. As usual, I suspect people don't believe me. Especially not Brexiteers that have lost touch with reality... I'll just leave this here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9328681.html

    If you think you get out on top after this, you've clearly not been paying attention in the past three years, let alone the past few decades. Up until now, you've been in a cooperative negotiation. The EU was playing nice. Now you're in an adversarial position. Everyone else that wants to deal with us tries to cooperate with us and hammer out a deal that benefits everyone. The UK is out to oppose the EU out of fucking spite and only tries to serve self-interest.

    I'll say this now... it'll end in tears for the UK. And I'll sit here and I will say "To the surprise of abso-fucking-lutely nobody else on this planet that was the inevitable outcome."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    This is as big surrender of terms in negotiations than when Trump basically came out of North Korea saying "Yeah we'll loosen sanctions while you someday down the road one day will pull back on your nuclear wishes."
    It's a joke. And it does reflect the trade position the UK actually has. And these are just 12 Carribbean nations. As wonderful as they are, they aren't even the size of the UK. And they share this supposedly tight Commonwealth bond. Fat lot of good that will do for the UK, it seems.
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  14. #24054
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    I was surprised no one had yet mentioned the bomb found at the HGV depot in Northern Ireland. I mean, sure they phoned it in in advance, they aren't monsters; but would have thought it was almost bigger news than "some people got a few scratches at the weekend from a guy with a knife"
    The provisional IRA general gave coded warnings: that is very much the tradition.

    There seems to be an attitude that "we aren't going back to the Troubles, ignore any indications of violence". Maybe that is the right strategy. I can't help feeling however that the situation is actually pretty dire and that many are in denial.

    It seems very likely to me that the SF victory in Eire will embolden the new manifestations of the IRA in the North.

  15. #24055
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    In our case according to trade agreements negociated outside the EU, tailored to our need. So your point?
    They are still trade agreements, are you having trouble to discern between WTO terms and trade agreements?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Ergo your doom and gloom scenario is not gonna happen. And on the contrary the UK will be allowed to create Free Ports independently from EU regulations that tended to limit them to "catching-up" new members.
    Wait what? You're telling me that right now, there are a number of Free Ports operating within the EU right now and that finally the UK will be allowed to create Free Ports independently from EU regulations that tend to limit them (how?) and companies will use them (why?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    I'm saying that trucking from a major port on another continent is much more complex and costly. We've already established it to be cheaper to ship it from the other side of the world regardless of destination harbor.
    I was never talking about trucking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Looking at a map you'll notice that most countries on the mainland rely on 1 or 2 gateways depending on their geography : limited/divided coastline, major river basin, vast hinterland, being landlocked. Its only logical that their traffic is much more concentrated. Notice that some benefit from Free Port status.
    On the other hand, you'll notice that the UK consists of islands with several centers, connected by harbors, which since ancient times have allowed the easy movement of good, litteraly around the country. It is only logical that tonnage is divided over their numerous harbor, as 1/5 of tonnage is shipping between british harbors.
    So even less relevant then, internationally speaking, got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Still doesn't work for cars.
    rofl
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  16. #24056
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    I'm sorry @Slant but I need to get this off my chest...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  17. #24057
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    They are still trade agreements, are you having trouble to discern between WTO terms and trade agreements?
    What exactly your point? The UK will be able to make tailored trade agreements on its own, instead of the one-size-fits-all that ends up being vetoed by a couple member states.

    Wait what? You're telling me that right now, there are a number of Free Ports operating within the EU right now and that finally the UK will be allowed to create Free Ports independently from EU regulations that tend to limit them (how?) and companies will use them (why?).
    From https://fullfact.org/europe/free-ports/

    There are around 80 free zones within the EU. Until 2012 there were five free ports within the UK, until the UK government allowed the domestic laws that set up those ports to expire.

    However, some experts have claimed that EU law limits the scope of free ports.

    Professor of EU law Catherine Barnard wrote last year that while there are many potential benefits of free ports, within the EU “it is not, however, easy for companies to benefit from these arrangements.”

    “Approvals for FZ [free zones] are also subject to EU state aid rules.”

    EU state aid rules generally prohibit EU governments from providing support to certain companies over their competitors. This can limit the abilities of member states setting up free ports with tax incentives (as this would essentially provide support for businesses within free ports compared to those outside of them).

    Professor Barnard illustrated this, saying: “The difficulty of obtaining an FZ status can be illustrated by the Shannon FZ in the Republic of Ireland. The Shannon FZ was successfully launched in 1958 but, upon Ireland’s accession to the EU in 1973, the incentives in the Shannon FZ were limited in order to comply with EU state aid rules (e.g. the 0% corporate income tax was increased to 10%).”

    EU rules also mean it’s more difficult for businesses to engage in something called “tariff inversion”. Because tariffs on component parts are often higher than tariffs on finished goods, it can be advantageous for a business to transport components to a free port, turn them into finished goods, and then import those finished goods into the rest of that country with a lower tariff.

    A 2005 paper from a UN body said: “The [European] Commission does allow the establishment of free zones within its territory but its definition of free zone is a very narrow one.”
    I was never talking about trucking.
    Then what are you talking about? Redistribution to the UK via ships from Rotterdam and the likes?

    From : https://www.bifa.org/news/articles/2...or-uk-shipping

    The UK lo-lo container port sector derives 31% of its total volume from trade with the rest of the EU (see Figure 1), so any new tariffs on trade between the UK and the EU will pose of risk of lower intra-Europe maritime trade volume.
    So over 2/3 of british container traffic is directly with the wide world, and less than 1/3 is from the EU. Given that the EU and the UK do trade their own stuff, not solely redistributing china-stuff and the likes, that results in your redistribution, be it via ships or trucks, a minute part of UK trade.

    So even less relevant then, internationally speaking, got it.
    Au contraire.

    rofl
    You're cute. Cars are the obvious, extreme example, but maybe you haven't noticed that a lot of appliance still have fixed power cords, type A is common in America and other parts of the world, and continental Europe is able to share the type C (or Europlug), but the UK's type G is just too specific, beside being shared with some distant ancient parts of the empire, ie if there are potential commonality gains it would be with them.
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    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"

  18. #24058
    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    From : https://www.bifa.org/news/articles/2...or-uk-shipping

    So over 2/3 of british container traffic is directly with the wide world, and less than 1/3 is from the EU. Given that the EU and the UK do trade their own stuff, not solely redistributing china-stuff and the likes, that results in your redistribution, be it via ships or trucks, a minute part of UK trade.
    Just to illustrate this dude's dishonesty for everyone to see...

    He's mentioned an article specifically about Lo-Lo container traffic. And then he goes on to talk about all "container traffic" in general. This is intentionally misleading, distorting the truth to convince people he has a point. Here's some fun facts:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-final-figures



    So, Lo-Lo container traffic is the smallest chunk of freight. By far.

    And a more general statement looks like this:



    And if you want to know who the UK is dealing with:



    This last picture is interesting, because it shows the discrepancy of what this dude pretends and how reality looks like. And do take note of the "other European countries", because every single one of them is fed through the EU. England doesn't drive a ship all the way around the EU to the black sea to finally deliver something to the Ukraine. They ship it to Rotterdam and then it gets sent on its merry way to the Ukraine. That's how the real world works.

    So when he pretends the UK doesn't trade a lot with the EU, he's full of shit.
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  19. #24059
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    What exactly your point? The UK will be able to make tailored trade agreements on its own, instead of the one-size-fits-all that ends up being vetoed by a couple member states.
    They are welcomed to do so, and I wish them all the best. The point is, the only great agreements they can likely strike are with countries smaller than them and there aren't that many left that fit that description, oh, maybe they try to fuck up Switzerland, this could be fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Got it, well then good luck UK, put some money into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Then what are you talking about? Redistribution to the UK via ships from Rotterdam and the likes?

    So over 2/3 of british container traffic is directly with the wide world, and less than 1/3 is from the EU. Given that the EU and the UK do trade their own stuff, not solely redistributing china-stuff and the likes, that results in your redistribution, be it via ships or trucks, a minute part of UK trade.
    I was talking about increased costs due to delays, customs declarations and so on and so forth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Au contraire.
    Great argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    You're cute. Cars are the obvious, extreme example, but maybe you haven't noticed that a lot of appliance still have fixed power cords, type A is common in America and other parts of the world, and continental Europe is able to share the type C (or Europlug), but the UK's type G is just too specific, beside being shared with some distant ancient parts of the empire, ie if there are potential commonality gains it would be with them.
    This is getting beyond ridiculous.
    Last edited by Mayhem; 2020-02-12 at 09:58 AM.
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  20. #24060
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Just to illustrate this dude's dishonesty for everyone to see...

    He's mentioned an article specifically about Lo-Lo container traffic. And then he goes on to talk about all "container traffic" in general. This is intentionally misleading, distorting the truth to convince people he has a point. Here's some fun facts:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-final-figures



    So, Lo-Lo container traffic is the smallest chunk of freight. By far.
    Nah, no dishonesty, I'll plead not researching the subject to the end of its hair tips. But thanks for showing that:
    -there are indeed lots of british harbors
    -aforementioned harbors can be very specialized
    -bulk is the biggest share of trade anyway, so usually from far away across the World

    BTW I'm wondering what is the methodology for calculating ro-ro tonnage. Does it include the trucks?

    And a more general statement looks like this:



    And if you want to know who the UK is dealing with:



    This last picture is interesting, because it shows the discrepancy of what this dude pretends and how reality looks like. And do take note of the "other European countries", because every single one of them is fed through the EU. England doesn't drive a ship all the way around the EU to the black sea to finally deliver something to the Ukraine. They ship it to Rotterdam and then it gets sent on its merry way to the Ukraine. That's how the real world works.

    So when he pretends the UK doesn't trade a lot with the EU, he's full of shit.
    And? I was countering those pretending that the UK doesn't trade a lot with the rest of the World. The growth shown in trade with America and Africa are very interesting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    They are welcomed to do so, and I wish them all the best. The point is, the only great agreements they can likely strike are with countries smaller than them and there aren't that many left that fit that description, oh, maybe they try to fuck up Switzerland, this could be fun.
    They are already busy re-signing EU-equivalent agreements, like they did with Switzerland last year. Switzerland doesn't fit your description anyway, as untill Brexit it was the EU's 3rd trading partner and the UK's 10th, its economy ranking 20th.

    See :

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47213842


    Where does the UK trade?
    % of total UK trade in 2018

    EU : 40%
    Countries with EU trade agreements : 11%
    Rest of the World : 49%

    While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals the EU had struck with more than 70 countries.

    In the run-up to Brexit, the UK was given permission to copy these agreements. So far, the UK has managed to agree 20 such deals, covering 50 countries or territories. These represent just over 8% of total UK trade.

    The following deals are expected to take effect at the end of the transition period, according to the Department for International Trade:

    Kosovo (£8m of trade in 2018)
    Jordan (£448m in 2018)
    Morocco (£2.5bn in 2018)
    Georgia (£123m in 2018)
    Southern African nations (£10.2bn in 2018)
    Tunisia (£542m in 2018)
    Lebanon (£762m in 2018)
    South Korea (£14.8bn in 2018)
    Central America (£1.1bn in 2018)
    Andean countries (£3.4bn in 2018)
    Norway and Iceland (£30.6bn in 2018)
    Caribbean countries (£3.7bn in 2018)
    Pacific Islands (£163m in 2018)
    Liechtenstein (£146m in 2018)
    Israel (£4.2bn in 2018)
    Palestinian Authority (£41m in 2018)
    Switzerland (£32.4bn in 2018)
    The Faroe Islands (£252m in 2018)
    Eastern and Southern Africa (£2bn in 2018)
    Chile (£2bn in 2018)
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"

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