View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #24161
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...de-deal-brexit

    Hmm, this is getting interesting. And at least for us kinda funny, seeing the UK implode.
    I know that the normal British people can be pretty naive, but BoJo has to know better. This can't even be in the interest of his weatlhy friends.
    Wait so you're telling me that one country has a poorer negotiating position than a bloc of 27 countries? :surprisedpikachu:
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #24162
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Just goes to show you the amount of trust the UK has lost internationally as a result of this episode, don't it.
    Yeah, a bunch people on an obscure gaming website are an accurate yardstick.

  3. #24163
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Jesus Christ! We've gone from an unconfirmed story - which contains no real detail - without a named source that Johnson's government is looking at a way around sea checks between mainland Britain and NI to the UK is going to violate international agreements!?!
    Yep. Welcome to mmoc-ot
    Edit: but to be fair, you guys voted for this with 0 plan, and nothing will baffle us anymore.
    Last edited by Demolitia; 2020-02-24 at 09:50 PM.

  4. #24164
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...de-deal-brexit

    Hmm, this is getting interesting. And at least for us kinda funny, seeing the UK implode.
    I know that the normal British people can be pretty naive, but BoJo has to know better. This can't even be in the interest of his weatlhy friends.
    Macron playing tough guy to a domestic crowd to try to win local elections he is going to lose against Le Pen in a couple of weeks don't mean a lot.

    But then nothing the EU says means anything to the UK at all now. WE HAVE LEFT.
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  5. #24165
    Will Brexit split the UK now? Scotland leaving? Will Northern Ireland leave and Ireland unite? Wales and England will stand alone?

  6. #24166
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Will Brexit split the UK now? Scotland leaving? Will Northern Ireland leave and Ireland unite? Wales and England will stand alone?
    time will tell, but at least SCO and NI will voice their stances at every opportunity.

  7. #24167
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Macron playing tough guy to a domestic crowd to try to win local elections he is going to lose against Le Pen in a couple of weeks don't mean a lot.

    But then nothing the EU says means anything to the UK at all now. WE HAVE LEFT.
    If the EU passes a new law by the end of Q2, you have to implement it in domestic law. If you want to charge a 200% tariff on French wine, you can't. If you want to stop Europeans entering the country to work, you can't. If you want to act against somebody's rights, the ECHR can bitch slap Johnson into accepting their decision. Doesn't sound like you left yet, bud.

    Wait, you didn't read the WA? You would know this if you had...

  8. #24168
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    WE HAVE LEFT.
    YOU JUST AGREED WE HADN'T YET A FEW POSTS AGO.

    ALSO, WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING SO MUCH? ARE YOU ANGRY THAT YOU STILL HAVEN'T GOT YOUR BREXIT UNICORN?

    It's like the slightly deaf racist old relative that you have to pretend to find amusing at Christmas. While they witter on about how terrible it is that they aren't allowed to call people darkies any more. "It's political correctness gone mad. Bring back National Service I say. I got buggered 5 times a night, but it made a man of me".
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
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    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  9. #24169
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...de-deal-brexit

    Hmm, this is getting interesting. And at least for us kinda funny, seeing the UK implode.
    I know that the normal British people can be pretty naive, but BoJo has to know better. This can't even be in the interest of his weatlhy friends.
    whole EU is now behind the idea and will sanction the shit out of UK, if they misbehave. so it is no deal or a deal Boris cannot rearrange on on a whim.

  10. #24170
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Macron playing tough guy to a domestic crowd to try to win local elections he is going to lose against Le Pen in a couple of weeks don't mean a lot.

    But then nothing the EU says means anything to the UK at all now. WE HAVE LEFT.
    Yes, you have "left" one of the 3 economic powerhouses on the planet. Pointing out macron's politicaL struggles at home is like poitIng out Sturgeon's. How does it matter?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    whole EU is now behind the idea and will sanction the shit out of UK, if they misbehave. so it is no deal or a deal Boris cannot rearrange on on a whim.
    It's even better/worse. A mandate is given to the commission, which then has all powers within this mandate. And the commission is basically an army of experts and lawyers the UK can never dream to match, or ever possibly emotionally appeal to. The UK will have to talk to Barnier again from now on not Macron or Merkel.

  11. #24171
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    If the EU passes a new law by the end of Q2, you have to implement it in domestic law. If you want to charge a 200% tariff on French wine, you can't. If you want to stop Europeans entering the country to work, you can't. If you want to act against somebody's rights, the ECHR can bitch slap Johnson into accepting their decision. Doesn't sound like you left yet, bud.

    Wait, you didn't read the WA? You would know this if you had...
    The likelihood of the EU passing a law between now and the end of Q2 is slim to non-existent and even if it pass a law there would be an implementation period which would likely mean that the UK would not have to implement it.

    Oh and the ECHR is nothing to do with the EU.

  12. #24172
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I think we hit peak comedy with the "I hope you've learned your lesson about buying EU goods since the UK will just delay their transit across the Atlantic" when the obvious outcome is that these companies are just going to start routing shipping directly through continent. Or Ireland.

    Honestly I will confess some surprise at BoJo actually reneging on this WA considering getting it passed brought down a government and that doing so will start the UK's "independence" off with a declaration of political unreliability but...this is the bad timeline.

    I think in the good timeline the British government managed to reform and set the grounds for a genuinely British identity rather than retreating further into English colonialism.
    When you read this, remember that I'm looking in from the outside... to us in the EU it matters not who calls the shots, what we see is "the UK" acting as a unit. So maybe you'll understand that I was not even surprised a little bit, considering how often the UK changed its position, how indecisive and divided they were on practically every aspect of Brexit and how the quality of the personnel we dealt with (the Government) deteriorated from bad to worse to utterly worst option available.

    The second we saw May getting bullied by her own party and moving back and forth on her demands (!) from the EU I think most people considered the United Kingdom to be an untrustworthy partner. Coming to negotiations with demands is... weird. The US was politely turned down for the very same reason. The EU is all about cooperation and compromises that benefit both. The UK, being a major player in the EU, should have known this.

    All of these things will be reflected in the upcoming negotiations:

    1. The EU dislikes being bullied and will stonewall any attempt at being forced into an undesireable position. As Turkey has found out, the EU is very happy to "negotiate" for 20 years if need be.

    2. The EU knows very well about the power imbalance. And the EU is very much compelled by its member states to get the best possible outcome of this "event" for the member states. The EU is not yet a self-serving purpose. It's very much a servant of the EU member states and by extension the population of the EU. And the sentiment across the continent seems to be more akin to "no quarter" than "mercy on them". Especially after the decades of WW2 rhetoric against Germany, the disdain for France in general, the disrespect towards Spain and the recent prejudicial claims about basically any Eastern European nation.

    3. The EU is well aware of anything going on in the UK. A fact British politicians, so engrossed and drunken on their perceived importance, do not seem to be aware of. We watch every single publically available Parliamentary session, we watch most interviews. And the EU officials most likely have people just analysing British politics at this stage to gauge how far the British can be pushed or how serious they are about certain claims. And this also means that the EU is very well aware of the time limit and will use it as leverage. Something Johnsson seems to think is in his favour. For some reason he thinks the EU owes him or that the EU would take pity on the British people, the Remainers at least. What he doesn't understand is that the EU has internalized the cut already. They're done with it. And the British people and British concerns are no longer the business of the EU. That's the ironic bit.. once you leave and tell everyone to fuck off, don't expect them to not heed your wish and actually stop being concerned about your wishes/needs.

    But hey, we have Dribbles and the other scared Brexiteers harping on about how nobody cares what Germany thinks. Well, that's right. But the EU cares what Germany and all the other member states think. And right now, they are uniting against an outside force trying to bully them. As history has demonstrated time and again, nothing unites people better than outside pressure. So please, keep it up Brexiteers. You're doing more to stabilise and unite Europe than anything else could.

    In fact, right now I'd say the EU is immune to pretty much all of Putin's attempts to disrupt the EU and destabilise it. I'm happy to speculate about these issues as people know, so I'll throw it out there... as a scheme to counteract Putin's efforts, this couldn't have been planned better. Who knows...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Jesus Christ! We've gone from an unconfirmed story - which contains no real detail - without a named source that Johnson's government is looking at a way around sea checks between mainland Britain and NI to the UK is going to violate international agreements!?!
    I think he was talking about BoJo outright ignoring the WA, hasn't he said so bluntly?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Yeah, a bunch people on an obscure gaming website are an accurate yardstick.
    Considering that the people posting here are from all kinds of countries, saying we got a pretty good cross section of the EU's average opinion is not that far fetched. Certainly the big opinion streams here don't diverge enough from the polls you guys seem to believe almost religiously in. Also, don't forget that unlike you, most people here can actually back up what they say and don't just pull stuff out of thin air or simply deny the validity of arguments without a proper counter argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    whole EU is now behind the idea and will sanction the shit out of UK, if they misbehave. so it is no deal or a deal Boris cannot rearrange on on a whim.
    Don't fall for the hyperbolic British phrasing. It's not sanctions as much as it's regulated consequences that every member state has to suffer if they diverge. In the simplest terms: If the UK dicks around and diverges in financial services, they will lose access to the EU's financial markets. Sure, you could say it's a sanction of sorts, but it's more appropriate to call that a regulatory necessity.
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  13. #24173
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Jesus Christ! We've gone from an unconfirmed story - which contains no real detail - without a named source that Johnson's government is looking at a way around sea checks between mainland Britain and NI to the UK is going to violate international agreements!?!
    Well, the UK isn't really showing much trustworthiness lately, and by lately I am talking about the past 3 to 4 years, so believing they'd try to fuck this up right away shouldn't come as a surprise.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  14. #24174
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Jesus Christ! We've gone from an unconfirmed story - which contains no real detail - without a named source that Johnson's government is looking at a way around sea checks between mainland Britain and NI to the UK is going to violate international agreements!?!
    Well, at the start of the WA negotiations there were Tories who openly said the UK could just agree to whatever the EU felt was needed, since the UK could just turn around and ignore it later. Might even have been Boris though I can't be arsed to look it up.

  15. #24175
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quoted without further comment, because I don't feel I'm qualified to comment on EU economic affairs.

    British exports to EU could fall 14% in no-deal scenario: UN study

    British exports to the European Union could fall by as much as 14% if the two sides are unable to strike a free trade deal and could be 9% lower even if an agreement is reached, a United Nations study found.

    The imposition of tariffs under a no-deal scenario would crimp trade, with the effect amplified by so-called non-tariff measures (NTMs) such as quotas, licensing and regulatory measures protecting health, safety and the environment.

    NTMs would double the negative impact of tariffs and could lead to an overall $32 billion hit to British exports, according to the UN Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) study released on Tuesday.

    The agriculture, food and beverages, and wood and paper sectors seem particularly exposed, it found, with a weaker impact on electrical and machinery, metal products, chemicals, and textiles and apparel.

    NTMs affect more than 80% of trade in developed counties and more than 90% in the European Union, it noted.

    Even if a “standard” free trade agreement emerged from the talks, British exports to the EU could still drop by 9%, dealing a major economic blow as the single market absorbs 46% of Britain’s sales abroad, it said.

    “EU membership has its advantages to deal with non-tariff measures that even the most comprehensive agreement cannot replicate,” UNCTAD’s director of international trade, Pamela Coke-Hamilton, said in a statement.

  16. #24176
    Aaaah Germany, I love ya <3


  17. #24177
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Quoted without further comment, because I don't feel I'm qualified to comment on EU economic affairs.

    British exports to EU could fall 14% in no-deal scenario: UN study
    Lets just put the rest in to make sure everyone gets the full picture.

    In a no-deal scenario, Ireland’s exports to the United Kingdom are expected to drop 10% as a result of non-tariff measures and tariffs, the study based on 25 years of data found.

    On the other hand, exports from developing countries into Britain and to a smaller extent into the EU could increase if Britain does not increase tariffs for third countries, it added.

    The study did not estimate the impact of a “soft” exit scenario that largely maintains the status quo, saying much depends on the details of the relationship that results.

    Britain has said it wants a Canada-style trade deal with the EU, but the EU has said this would require Britain to accept a level playing field in areas from state aid to taxation.

    Britain has said that it does not want regulatory alignment with the bloc and that this was not what the EU demanded of Canada for a free trade deal.

  18. #24178
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glitch View Post
    Aaaah Germany, I love ya <3
    But, but, but... it was a "once in a generation" choice.

    I'm not sure they got his likeness right, though. He's less Kurt Cobain, more Cartman:


  19. #24179
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    But, but, but... it was a "once in a generation" choice.

    I'm not sure they got his likeness right, though. He's less Kurt Cobain, more Cartman:

    You know I would pay really good money for like, a Buzzfeed compilation where we contact the spirits of every previous Prime Minister and filmed their reaction to seeing this photo and being told this idiot obtained the premiership.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  20. #24180
    Quote Originally Posted by sircaw View Post
    Britain has said it wants a Canada-style trade deal with the EU, but the EU has said this would require Britain to accept a level playing field in areas from state aid to taxation.

    Britain has said that it does not want regulatory alignment with the bloc and that this was not what the EU demanded of Canada for a free trade deal.
    Well, tough.. that's how the cookie crumbles.
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