[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Gorsameth]

That's great then, everyone is happy and both sides are ready for that glorious no deal. Group hug in celebration? When, after the no deal, Britain booms and shines like a light to the still imprisoned EU27 and they all want some freedom and begin demanding to leave, what happens to the EU then?



The UK won't break the GFA and will not impose a border across the middle of Ireland. The EU will break the GFA by insisting Ireland puts one up.

Once again the EU will be seen globally to be the bad guys and deal breakers acting against the wishes and interests of their citizens.

yeah I'm sure rowdy Irishmen will blame the EU and not the UK rofl.

[zealo]

The Withdrawal Agreement is now a binding ratified international treaty between the UK and the EU. It is a separate thing from whether any trade deal gets signed.

Anyone who thinks the EU doesn't have a range of options available to it that are none too pleasant to the UK to apply pressure, if the UK decides to breach it, is in for a shock.

[shimerra]

That's great then, everyone is happy and both sides are ready for that glorious no deal. Group hug in celebration? When, after the no deal, Britain booms and shines like a light to the still imprisoned EU27 and they all want some freedom and begin demanding to leave, what happens to the EU then?



The UK won't break the GFA and will not impose a border across the middle of Ireland. The EU will break the GFA by insisting Ireland puts one up.

Once again the EU will be seen globally to be the bad guys and deal breakers acting against the wishes and interests of their citizens.

Well it's pretty clear most people in the EU think you and people like you are children throwing tantrums because they wouldn't let you eat a gallon of their ice cream and diarrhea all over their couch. And they definitely don't care for you now that you've eaten a gallon of your own ice cream and are caked in your own shit blaming them for it. And they'd be right because you and your ilk are being whiney unreasonable children. You want to have your cake and eat it too and get mad when others take issue with that and quite honestly the EU has been far too kind to you given your government's massive incompetence in no small part driven by the dumb and unrealistic expectations of people like yourself.

And I can tell you most Americans generally also think you're morons and the ones that don't are usually pretty stupid and barely understand America politics let alone international politics. Ya'll took negotiations that normally takes most of a decade, tried to rush it through because of a dumb ass referendum that if it were held now would probably give a different result because enough people died who never were going to live through the consequences of their vote, and didn't understand that even you shitheads couldn't agree what kind of brexit you wanted. And despite the EU basically playing softball you whined and shrieked that your stupidity and incompetence was somehow their fault.

Britain managed to out stupid Trump with Brexit and Boris Johnson. And that's impressive because Trump is god damn fucking stupid beyond comprehension almost.

[Pann]

Considering I can still travel and trade with the UK as any other EU country I'm going with 'no, you haven't left'. You have announced your leaving for realz, but you haven't left until 2021.

And you really aren't paying attention if you think the EU gives 2 shits about your threats to walk away. The EU is ready for a no-deal.

ps.
What is your opinion on a return of the NRA bombings if Boris tears up the WA and in doing so violates the Good Friday agreement?

Well the EU would beg to differ on that one... but what they know, hey?

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries_en

Of course the EU care if the UK walks away - what an utterly ridiculous statement.

I honestly think that the NRA will have better things to do you know what with lobbying against gun control and everything . The UK is not going to go back on the Withdrawal Agreement however I am curious as to how you think the Good Friday Agreement would be violated.

[Inuyaki]

@dribbles
You can't possibly believe that the UK would be fine with a no-trade deal.

That position is so stupid that I... that can't be.
Brexit with a trade deal would be already bad enough for you, but really one without a deal is devastating. Have fun being a 3rd world country, I guess?

[dribbles]

@dribbles
You can't possibly believe that the UK would be fine with a no-trade deal.

That position is so stupid that I... that can't be.
Brexit with a trade deal would be already bad enough for you, but really one without a deal is devastating. Have fun being a 3rd world country, I guess?

The UK will be more than fine if it ends up with an Australian style trade relationship with the EU. Are they a 3rd world country?

No deal of course will be devastating for the EU just look how their services will be affected if they jump off that cliff in December without the UK parachute.
"
Latest EU figures reveal UK is EU27's top export market for services, bigger than USA.
UK is bigger for EU27 than China, Singapore, Japan, Russia, Canada, Brazil & India combined."

https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_feb_uk_top_customer

It is the EU who risks turning into a 3rd world continent because of barmy Barnier.

[Demolitia]

Well the EU would beg to differ on that one... but what they know, hey?

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries_en

Of course the EU care if the UK walks away - what an utterly ridiculous statement.

I honestly think that the NRA will have better things to do you know what with lobbying against gun control and everything . The UK is not going to go back on the Withdrawal Agreement however I am curious as to how you think the Good Friday Agreement would be violated.

One might question whether the EU believes Johnson will even try in good faith to negotiate. Today the UK published its position which is as expected widely clashing with the eu's position, and then attached a 3-4 months ultimatum for sufficient progress (whatever the fuck that means in practice) to be made on data and financial services, which are by no means trivial topics.
Does the EU care? Sure, but signals from the the uk or not really constructive so far

[Huehuecoyotl]

Of course the EU care if the UK walks away - what an utterly ridiculous statement.

For somebody who is always so ready to nitpick other people, you've been a bit careless there. He said that the EU don't care about the UK threats to walk away. Not that the EU wouldn't care about the UK walking away. The former is childish posturing for the Brexit masses. The latter will have negative ramifications for both parties. Moreso for the UK, of course, but the EU wouldn't come out unscathed either.

If you're going to accuse someone of making a ridiculous statement, maybe make sure they actually said what you think they did first?

[Pann]

One might question whether the EU believes Johnson will even try in good faith to negotiate. Today the UK published its position which is as expected widely clashing with the eu's position, and then attached a 3-4 months ultimatum for sufficient progress (whatever the fuck that means in practice) to be made on data and financial services, which are by no means trivial topics.
Does the EU care? Sure, but signals from the the uk or not really constructive so far

Might they?? I would hope that unlike this thread that the EU has a more reliable source than twitter.

[Demolitia]

Might they?? I would hope that unlike this thread that the EU has a more reliable source than twitter.

It was a direct quote from "the government" in the guardian. Granted i did not double check where they got this, but I assume they don't invent quote. Might have been out of context but i doubt it.
Anyway ...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-talks-in-june

[Fusipia]

Of course the EU care if the UK walks away - what an utterly ridiculous statement.

They care that:

a) their populations who would prefer a tough line on the UK vote for them and

b) they care about not making membership of the EU pointless by giving all the benefits and none of the disadvantages to countries that leave.

The UK has no leverage at all. Being overly diplomatic with the UK could cost an EU politician their job or cause the break-up of the institution. Brexiteers such as Pann and Dribbles are simply deluding themselves, and I mean Tolkien-level delusions.

The Brexiteers seem quite unable to grasp the simple truth that as they are not motivated by economics, neither is the EU.

[Demolitia]

They care that:

a) their populations who would prefer a tough line on the UK vote for them and

b) they care about not making membership of the EU pointless by giving all the benefits and none of the disadvantages to countries that leave.

The UK has no leverage at all. Being overly diplomatic with the UK could cost an EU politician their job or cause the break-up of the institution. Brexiteers such as Pann and Dribbles are simply deluding themselves, and I mean Tolkien-level delusions.

The Brexiteers seem quite unable to grasp the simple truth that as they are not motivated by economics, neither is the EU.

Pann is not a brexiteer. He is just doing the fact checking around here and keeping us on our toes.

[Pann]

It was a direct quote from "the government" in the guardian. Granted i did not double check where they got this, but I assume they don't invent quote. Might have been out of context but i doubt it.
Anyway ...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-talks-in-june

Oh, why didn't you say that it was in The Guardian? If it's in The Guardian then it must be true!?! But I do not see any mention of bad faith in that article.

It is no secret that Johnson has said that he will walk away if a FTA cannot be negotiated - I don't believe this to be an idle threat. However no-one has even sat in a room together as of yet and both sides are puffing their chests out, rattling their sabres and playing politics. Maybe just wait see what happens once actual negotiations start?

------

Oh and shouldn't the burner be busy yelling at Yorkshire Tea's twitter account?

[Acidbaron]

More of the same tough talk and no substance from the british side to anyone's surprise, i do find the threat that they'll just leave the negotiation table if the EU won't budge . Standing on the ledge and threatening to jump, hardly the best starting position in the talks but again this was to be expected.

[Demolitia]

Oh, why didn't you say that it was in The Guardian? If it's in The Guardian then it must be true!?! But I do not see any mention of bad faith in that article.

It is no secret that Johnson has said that he will walk away if a FTA cannot be negotiated - I don't believe this to be an idle threat. However no-one has even sat in a room together as of yet and both sides are puffing their chests out, rattling their sabres and playing politics. Maybe just wait see what happens once actual negotiations start?

------

Oh and shouldn't the burner be busy yelling at Yorkshire Tea's twitter account?

Woah chill out. So now we can't discuss anything unless we have a video or government publication as a source?
From the look of the uk position it doesn't necessarily look like one FTA covering everything.
I have no problem with both sides banging their chests and making impossible demands, but the place to do so is in your negotiating position paper.
The difference is that the has EU stated they would do their best until the last moment to reach an agreement.
The "we walk away in June if the thorniest issue hasn't worked the way we want" is just childish.
I understand this are THE most important aspects for the UK and they want it sorted out first and are trying to impose their schedule of negotiations, but still ... that once again doesn't make the UK look like the adult in the room. I really don't see the point

[Slant]

Well the EU would beg to differ on that one... but what they know, hey?

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries_en

Of course the EU care if the UK walks away - what an utterly ridiculous statement.

I honestly think that the NRA will have better things to do you know what with lobbying against gun control and everything . The UK is not going to go back on the Withdrawal Agreement however I am curious as to how you think the Good Friday Agreement would be violated.

Put up a claim, link something completely unrelated, then attempt to use that unrelated as a source for another completely fictious claim that you just made up on the spot.

Typical shitposting...

The EU cared 3 years ago about the UK walking away. They have accepted the fact and right now the EU is in the mindset of striking an FTA with a third nation. The times to regret Brexit are over.

But hey, enjoy your high horse... or pony rather, in your case.

- - - Updated - - -

Might they?? I would hope that unlike this thread that the EU has a more reliable source than twitter.

They do. And unlike you, they know how to use sources properly.

- - - Updated - - -

Pann is not a brexiteer. He is just doing the fact checking around here and keeping us on our toes.

He's really not. He's a smart ass, that's all.

[Pann]

Woah chill out. So now we can't discuss anything unless we have a video or government publication as a source?
From the look of the uk position it doesn't necessarily look like one FTA covering everything.
I have no problem with both sides banging their chests and making impossible demands, but the place to do so is in your negotiating position paper.
The difference is that the has EU stated they would do their best until the last moment to reach an agreement.
The "we walk away in June if the thorniest issue hasn't worked the way we want" is just childish.
I understand this are THE most important aspects for the UK and they want it sorted out first and are trying to impose their schedule of negotiations, but still ... that once again doesn't make the UK look like the adult in the room. I really don't see the point

Sorry, my post does come across more aggressive than I intended. With that said I find The Guardian's Brexit reporting to be pretty poor.

I have to disagree that walking away is childish. I think that even the most pro-EU person would agree that the EU is partial to odd bit of can kicking and given the opportunity to procrastinate the EU will take it, even more so when it is in their best interests to keep the UK locked to EU rules. But for better or worse we've left and June will mark four years since the referendum was held at some point the UK has to fully leave EU - we simply cannot continue to adhere to EU law, rules and regulations in perpetuity especially as we have no voice in how the EU will move forward - whether we agree with Brexit or not it is time for all of us to move on.

I would also point out that this is schedule that the EU agreed. Also I might be misremembering this but wasn't it the EU that insisted that the progress of talks would be assessed in June?

[Demolitia]

Sorry, my post does come across more aggressive than I intended. With that said I find The Guardian's Brexit reporting to be pretty poor.

I have to disagree that walking away is childish. I think that even the most pro-EU person would agree that the EU is partial to odd bit of can kicking and given the opportunity to procrastinate the EU will take it, even more so when it is in their best interests to keep the UK locked to EU rules. But for better or worse we've left and June will mark four years since the referendum was held at some point the UK has to fully leave EU - we simply cannot continue to adhere to EU law, rules and regulations in perpetuity especially as we have no voice in how the EU will move forward - whether we agree with Brexit or not it is time for all of us to move on.

I would also point out that this is schedule that the EU agreed. Also I might be misremembering this but wasn't it the EU that insisted that the progress of talks would be assessed in June?

We have until september or so to reach an agreement to allow both sides to ratify an fta. June was the deadline agreed by both sides for an extension of the transition period. An assesment would have made sense at that point to ser if an extension was needed but I guess that's not really relevant anymore.
I still don't see the point of threatening to rage quit in the middle of the negotiations when both futures are at stake. The EU is acutely aware that time is short, but it has to come up with a solution that's palatable to 27 members with vastly different priorities. Depending on the agreement all member states need to ratify it. It's not procrastinating it just takes alot of back and forth to build consensus.

The Guardian is not perfect, but they don't strike me as a paper that makes up quotes for the lols. There are easier and more ethical ways to plug your opinions and political bias.

[Crispin]

The UK will be more than fine if it ends up with an Australian style trade relationship with the EU. Are they a 3rd world country?

No deal of course will be devastating for the EU just look how their services will be affected if they jump off that cliff in December without the UK parachute.
"
Latest EU figures reveal UK is EU27's top export market for services, bigger than USA.
UK is bigger for EU27 than China, Singapore, Japan, Russia, Canada, Brazil & India combined."

https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_feb_uk_top_customer

It is the EU who risks turning into a 3rd world continent because of barmy Barnier.

The EU, taken as a whole is the UK’s largest trading partner. In 2018, UK exports to the EU were £291 billion (45% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £357 billion (53% of all UK imports).

https://researchbriefings.parliament...mmary/CBP-7851

You’re not doing yourself any favours by ignoring reality, son.

[Pann]

We have until september or so to reach an agreement to allow both sides to ratify an fta. June was the deadline agreed by both sides for an extension of the transition period. An assesment would have made sense at that point to ser if an extension was needed but I guess that's not really relevant anymore.
I still don't see the point of threatening to rage quit in the middle of the negotiations when both futures are at stake. The EU is acutely aware that time is short, but it has to come up with a solution that's palatable to 27 members with vastly different priorities. Depending on the agreement all member states need to ratify it. It's not procrastinating it just takes alot of back and forth to build consensus.

The Guardian is not perfect, but they don't strike me as a paper that makes up quotes for the lols. There are easier and more ethical ways to plug your opinions and political bias.

The UK has repeatedly said that it will not agree to an extension.

The UK is following the schedule was set out and agreed by the EU. So what should the UK do? Continue to follow EU laws without say and pay into the budget until the 27 get around to agreeing with each other? I'm sorry but as much as I think Brexit is a mistake I do not think that is a reasonable expectation.