[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Demolitia]

The UK has repeatedly said that it will not agree to an extension.

The UK is following the schedule was set out and agreed by the EU. So what should the UK do? Continue to follow EU laws without say and pay into the budget until the 27 get around to agreeing with each other? I'm sorry but as much as I think Brexit is a mistake I do not think that is a reasonable expectation.

But that's not really the EU's problem, or its member states', is it?
We have wasted all of the article 50 time and extensions watching the UK's political shitshow with a mix of dismay and amusement, and now somehow you decided that the actually complicated, and actually critical bit will be mostly wrapped up in 4 months? It will have been 4 years since the referendum, starting the clock without a plan and fucking around in Patliament.
I understand things are still complicated in your politics but I don't think the UK gets to push us around because things are not moving fast enough now and tell us to focus. Oh the fucking irony ...
I do not think that is a reasonnable expectation ...
Your PM seems to be more interested in grabbing power and getting his no deal than your country's future. That's on you, you chose him. Not on the EU.
If you don't want our rules and oversight we'll need new ones on a sector by sector basis, but that's not going to happen this year, or in the next few.

[Huehuecoyotl]

The UK has repeatedly said that it will not agree to an extension.

The UK is following the schedule was set out and agreed by the EU. So what should the UK do? Continue to follow EU laws without say and pay into the budget until the 27 get around to agreeing with each other? I'm sorry but as much as I think Brexit is a mistake I do not think that is a reasonable expectation.

Disingenuous as ever I see. The schedule was agreed before the UK literally wasted all of the time voting down agreements and behaving like toddlers. Now we are facing a timetable in which it is almost certainly impossible to agree even a simple deal where we try and continue with things much as they are today. Much less try and agree a deal that involves the kind of divergence that Boris has decided he now wants.

Boris decided to play politics and say "no extension under any circumstances!" He is the one causing this issue, having been one of the people responsible for wasting time in the first place. This isn't the fault of the EU, and if we crash out with no deal the blame is all going to sit in the lap of Boris and his Brexit cronies. Not that I'd expect you to agree with any of that, of course.

[dribbles]

Disingenuous as ever I see. The schedule was agreed before the UK literally wasted all of the time voting down agreements and behaving like toddlers. Now we are facing a timetable in which it is almost certainly impossible to agree even a simple deal where we try and continue with things much as they are today. Much less try and agree a deal that involves the kind of divergence that Boris has decided he now wants.

Boris decided to play politics and say "no extension under any circumstances!" He is the one causing this issue, having been one of the people responsible for wasting time in the first place. This isn't the fault of the EU, and if we crash out with no deal the blame is all going to sit in the lap of Boris and his Brexit cronies. Not that I'd expect you to agree with any of that, of course.

The clock started because the EU refused to negotiate unless and until Article 50 was triggered. That is defective EU legislation all on them and not the fault of the UK.

Not our problem though now we hold all the cards.

Walking Away Without Deal Will Hurt European Union, Not Britain. The British side now holds all the cards, as the European Union cannot afford to let Britain go without a deal.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/202...-not-britain/#

Chop chop eurochums, the clock is ticking...

[Pann]

But that's not really the EU's problem, or its member states', is it?
We have wasted all of the article 50 time and extensions watching the UK's political shitshow with a mix of dismay and amusement, and now somehow you decided that the actually complicated, and actually critical bit will be mostly wrapped up in 4 months? It will have been 4 years since the referendum, starting the clock without a plan and fucking around in Patliament.
I understand things are still complicated in your politics but I don't think the UK gets to push us around because things are not moving fast enough now and tell us to focus. Oh the fucking irony ...
I do not think that is a reasonnable expectation ...
Your PM seems to be more interested in grabbing power and getting his no deal than your country's future. That's on you, you chose him. Not on the EU.
If you don't want our rules and oversight we'll need new ones on a sector by sector basis, but that's not going to happen this year, or in the next few.

No it is not, likewise it is not the UK's problem that the EU wants or needs time to sort out whether all member states agree.

Indeed there has been much time wasted I would have thought that as a result all parties would want to bring the matter to close as swiftly as possible. It is the EU's timetable. Whether you think the plan is good or not the UK does have a plan - agree a FTA or trade on WTO terms - to say that there is no plan is simply false.

The UK is not pushing anyone around. If it is not possible to agree a FTA - or a least the minimums - within agreed time then perhaps a different timetable should have been agreed?

Many would say that that the whole of Brexit but hey ho.

Well then I guess that it's going to be WTO terms then.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Walking Away Without Deal Will Hurt European Union, Not Britain. The British side now holds all the cards, as the European Union cannot afford to let Britain go without a deal.

That's what you're going with now? That no-deal will hurt the EU, and somehow magically not damage Britain?

This is beyond simple Brexiteer stupidity and veered into satire now, surely?

[Gibblewink]

No it is not, likewise it is not the UK's problem that the EU wants or needs time to sort out whether all member states agree.

Indeed there has been much time wasted I would have thought that as a result all parties would want to bring the matter to close as swiftly as possible. It is the EU's timetable. Whether you think the plan is good or not the UK does have a plan - agree a FTA or trade on WTO terms - to say that there is no plan is simply false.

The UK is not pushing anyone around. If it is not possible to agree a FTA - or a least the minimums - within agreed time then perhaps a different timetable should have been agreed?

Many would say that that the whole of Brexit but hey ho.

Well then I guess that it's going to be WTO terms then.

Good grief man! The EU built in mechanisms that allow extensions if there is a need for it. It is solely the UK that for some idiotic reason refuse to use them.

[Demolitia]

No it is not, likewise it is not the UK's problem that the EU wants or needs time to sort out whether all member states agree.

Indeed there has been much time wasted I would have thought that as a result all parties would want to bring the matter to close as swiftly as possible. It is the EU's timetable. Whether you think the plan is good or not the UK does have a plan - agree a FTA or trade on WTO terms - to say that there is no plan is simply false.

The UK is not pushing anyone around. If it is not possible to agree a FTA - or a least the minimums - within agreed time then perhaps a different timetable should have been agreed?

Many would say that that the whole of Brexit but hey ho.

Well then I guess that it's going to be WTO terms then.

Reconciling the two positions will just take time. You can't say it's not your problem when you have helped build the eu and its processes over the last 40 years. Saying that we can agree to something vastly more complex than the WA which took over 3 years in just 4 months is just disingenuous.
The timeline was decided together with the UK with provisions for extensions. I guess BoJo thought that would be easier to sell than the backstop? But the UK shut down that possibility.
But back on topic. Considering how long this thing has been going on, how much there is to do and how little time there is to do it, i don't see the point of saying "you guys better agree to my demands in 4 months or else "... when there are only 7 or 8 months anyway.
But that's how I see it I guess. Or BoJo is just playing strongman to appeal to his fanbase.
If wto is the plan he could just have said so and not wasted everyone's time though ..

[Pann]

Reconciling the two positions will just take time. You can't say it's not your problem when you have helped build the eu and its processes over the last 40 years. Saying that we can agree to something vastly more complex than the WA which took over 3 years in just 4 months is just disingenuous.
The timeline was decided together with the UK with provisions for extensions. I guess BoJo thought that would be easier to sell than the backstop? But the UK shut down that possibility.
But back on topic. Considering how long this thing has been going on, how much there is to do and how little time there is to do it, i don't see the point of saying "you guys better agree to my demands in 4 months or else "... when there are only 7 or 8 months anyway.
But that's how I see it I guess. Or BoJo is just playing strongman to appeal to his fanbase.
If wto is the plan he could just have said so and not wasted everyone's time though ..

I'm not saying that at all nor am I saying that it can be agreed.

The provision for an extension does not mean that it has to be taken, both the EU and UK could decide that extension is not in their best interests and I suspect that come June with no agreement reached that if the EU was to decide that it did not want an extension that you and, most certainly, other posters would not only be supportive of this position but keen to press upon those of us from the UK that we deserve everything coming to us.

The UK is not saying that the EU better agree to our demands. And even if it was - why is this an issue? I mean from we've all been told, in this very thread, that the UK holds no power and that EU is so much stronger than the UK therefore form where you're sitting there is nothing to worry about whilst we in the UK will be shown the error of our - I mean dribbles' - ways.

WTO is neither the plan nor desirable however the UK will accept these terms if a deal cannot be reached.

[Inuyaki]

That's what you're going with now? That no-deal will hurt the EU, and somehow magically not damage Britain?

This is beyond simple Brexiteer stupidity and veered into satire now, surely?

Yeah... at this point it is not really worth discussing with him anymore. He is so far into fantasy land, that any reasonable argument or fact will land on deaf ears anyway

[Gorsameth]

The clock started because the EU refused to negotiate unless and until Article 50 was triggered. That is defective EU legislation all on them and not the fault of the UK.

Not our problem though now we hold all the cards.

Walking Away Without Deal Will Hurt European Union, Not Britain. The British side now holds all the cards, as the European Union cannot afford to let Britain go without a deal.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/202...-not-britain/#

Chop chop eurochums, the clock is ticking...

Unironically quoting Breitbart. Oh boy

Ofcourse there is no negotiation until article 50 is triggered.
Its like haggling over who gets what in a divorce and then deciding if you want a divorce or not based on how much of the other persons stuff you managed to score.

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No it is not, likewise it is not the UK's problem that the EU wants or needs time to sort out whether all member states agree.

Indeed there has been much time wasted I would have thought that as a result all parties would want to bring the matter to close as swiftly as possible. It is the EU's timetable. Whether you think the plan is good or not the UK does have a plan - agree a FTA or trade on WTO terms - to say that there is no plan is simply false.

The UK is not pushing anyone around. If it is not possible to agree a FTA - or a least the minimums - within agreed time then perhaps a different timetable should have been agreed?

Many would say that that the whole of Brexit but hey ho.

Well then I guess that it's going to be WTO terms then.

I'd say the UK is most certainly trying to push around by having a position that goes against the basic tenants of the EU.
Heck basic principles of any trade treaty, ensuring a (somewhat) equal opportunity market.

[Demolitia]

I'm not saying that at all nor am I saying that it can be agreed.

The provision for an extension does not mean that it has to be taken, both the EU and UK could decide that extension is not in their best interests and I suspect that come June with no agreement reached that if the EU was to decide that it did not want an extension that you and, most certainly, other posters would not only be supportive of this position but keen to press upon those of us from the UK that we deserve everything coming to us.

The UK is not saying that the EU better agree to our demands. And even if it was - why is this an issue? I mean from we've all been told, in this very thread, that the UK holds no power and that EU is so much stronger than the UK therefore form where you're sitting there is nothing to worry about whilst we in the UK will be shown the error of our - I mean dribbles' - ways.

WTO is neither the plan nor desirable however the UK will accept these terms if a deal cannot be reached.

That is just not true. I do not support the EU slamming the door. Since the referendum we have seen the UK going from "we want a close partnership! Still love you guys!", to 3 years of "what do we do?" to a PM forcing an impossible schedule and binary choice (after conveniently shutting parliament oversight on the process).
The EU's position in the meantime has been "take all the time you need but know this and this is not going to work for us".
We are now in the part of the negotiations that matters, that will most impact businesses, jobs and people in the future, and somehow your government decides that an extension will not happen (the point is not whether it would be used or not, a lot can happen in the next few months), and that a full 8 months of work on this might be too much to ask from you.

There was a time when WTO was a horrifying prospect. What happened to you guys in the meantime? We did not ask for Brexit, and we sure as hell did not ask for no deal, but your government sure as hell make it harder and harder to avoid before we even try to find compromises and ways to minimise the damage to both sides.

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VDL is on record that if the UK ends up prefering trade on WTO terms over what the EU is prepared to offer, that's fine with us too. So we are going full ahead to no deal at the end of this year and then implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement.

Well if the UK rather trades on wto terms than work on an agreement, there is not much the EU can do about it.

[Slant]

The UK has repeatedly said that it will not agree to an extension.

The UK is following the schedule was set out and agreed by the EU. So what should the UK do? Continue to follow EU laws without say and pay into the budget until the 27 get around to agreeing with each other? I'm sorry but as much as I think Brexit is a mistake I do not think that is a reasonable expectation.

Crash out and find out what the consequences are. And it's not the EU that has a problem making decisions, as your Parliament has shown being indecisive about one question for almost 4 years. So don't give us that bullshit.

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No it is not, likewise it is not the UK's problem that the EU wants or needs time to sort out whether all member states agree.

The EU has already agreed and has its roadmap planned out. FFS, being so dishonest. It was never the EU that was the reason for any holdup. Sure, the EU didn't push the UK into decisions to hurry things up. That is what happens if you don't want to interfere into the internal matters of a sovereign fucking nation. You just don't get to pin that on the EU now.

[cranspidid]

Pann is not a brexiteer. He is just doing the fact checking around here and keeping us on our toes.

He's a Brexiteer and a conservative. Despite denying both things he consistently argues for both positions.

Basically he's someone who is too cowardly to admit his own position.

As for "fact-checking", he's one of those half-wits who believes only establishment resources. His entire output could be easily replicated by a text algorithm that scanned the headlines of the newspapers. Like most similar idiots he doesn't understand those sources essentially present the views of their wealthy owners. He clearly has no idea what a primary source is: even when presented with very clear and specific information he will post some guardian or times article as if it were gospel. I'm not impressed.

[Pann]

The government has published the terms of reference on the UK-EU future relationship negotiations which includes discussions on Level Playing Field for open and fair competition in the agenda.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...p-negotiations

[dribbles]

I mean, he's using things like Breitbart and facts4eu as his sources. He's an actor playing a part, nobody is this daft.

Look breitbart was the mailman, the Messenger was David Davis - someone who has spent a lot of time in the EU trenches and is recently back from the front line. If anyone is a brexologist he is, moreso than anyone on here.

[Gibblewink]

Look breitbart was the mailman, the Messenger was David Davis - someone who has spent a lot of time in the EU trenches and is recently back from the front line. If anyone is a brexologist he is, moreso than anyone on here.

A man who didn't even know which country the negotiations were going to be held in and who famously showed up for a few minutes per week when negotiations were ongoing? Yeah right...

[Acidbaron]

Why would the EU grant more extensions when all it does is increase the further uncertainty and Britain is incapable of delivering a coherent and detailed plan what they want out of the Brexit, not to even mention not even capable of delivering adults to the table.

Man i feel sorry for everyone involved with those british clowns for politicians, this extends to the diplomats trying to do the ground work for a bunch of kids.

The current leadership wants to crash out because it fits their long term view or personal political gain, there is no denying that.

[Kotuthan]

Looks like the EU is making life easier for the British who are Working and Living in the EU by creating a Residence Card.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brit...ence-documen/#

The Commission told POLITICO it wants to ensure British residents in the EU have a “simple, uniform” physical document that helps them prove their residence status and continue to be able to exercise their rights.

[Acidbaron]

Looks like the EU is making life easier for the British who are Working and Living in the EU by creating a Residence Card.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brit...ence-documen/#

Well someone has to look out for the british, cause it sure as shit won't be their own government. Sadly i doubt this level of civility won't be granted to EU citizens in the UK.

Not a matter of goodwill though, just a matter of making things work and so this is an most likely a request from employers.

[Temp name]

Looks like the EU is making life easier for the British who are Working and Living in the EU by creating a Residence Card.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brit...ence-documen/#

That just sounds like a universally good thing. The EU gets to keep labourers, and the UK either does the same, or get to look like idiots.