[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Forogil]

Post-Brexit Brussels could become 'economic BACKWATER' predicts Andrew Neil.

Realistically there's a possibility that the EU will play second fiddle to the growing Asian markets.

So, we might see Asian powers (in particular China) dominating followed by the US and then the EU - or possibly the EU and the US competing for the second spot; and then some minor powers like Russia.

[farsas]

Realistically there's a possibility that the EU will play second fiddle to the growing Asian markets.

So, we might see Asian powers (in particular China) dominating followed by the US and then the EU - or possibly the EU and the US competing for the second spot; and then some minor powers like Russia.

You do understand the EU just gained de facto control over a massive and strategically important slice of British territory?

I honestly cannot believe we lost Gibraltar and Northern Ireland. I'm very far from a nationalist little Englander but this is an absolutely horrible and unprecedented humiliation.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Realistically there's a possibility that the EU will play second fiddle to the growing Asian markets.

So, we might see Asian powers (in particular China) dominating followed by the US and then the EU - or possibly the EU and the US competing for the second spot; and then some minor powers like Russia.

Then it's a good thing that while agreeing a landmark deal with Japan, the EU has been working on a deal with China enabling businesses in European Union member states to compete with Chinese businesses on a more even playing field, improving transparency for European investors and businesses, and eliminating discriminatory and predatory rules regarding legal due process, state subsidies and protecting investments from governmental intervention.

See https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/pr...ex.cfm?id=2115

And the UK gets none of it, of course. They can negotiate their own deal.

[Forogil]

You do understand the EU just gained de facto control over a massive and strategically important slice of British territory?

So what? N. Ireland and Gibraltar are not that significant for the EU.

I'm not saying that growing Asian power might happen because of the brexit-deal; just that they might happen anyway.

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Then it's a good thing that while agreeing a landmark deal with Japan, the EU has been working on a deal with China enabling businesses in European Union member states to compete with Chinese businesses on a more even playing field, improving transparency for European investors and businesses, and eliminating discriminatory and predatory rules regarding legal due process, state subsidies and protecting investments from governmental intervention.

See https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/pr...ex.cfm?id=2115

Yes, of course. Although it's not clear how much those agreements will be worth in practice.

[Kotuthan]

So if I understand all opf this correctly.

1. The UK locked itself out of Projects it invested in. Such as the Galileo Satelites (atleast the military encription.
2. The UK now has to follow EU regulations if it wants to trade with the EU, but now does not get a say in what those regulations are.
3. It promoted a minor fishing industry but at the expense of larger industries such as Financial services. Wich lost preffered treatment and now have to compete in the EU alongside Wallstreet, Hong Kong etc.
4. Lost access to Erasmus, and research access to programs suchs as Horizon Europe.

I will be surprised if the UK Parliament passes it unless they are desperate.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

So if I understand all opf this correctly.

1. The UK locked itself out of Projects it invested in. Such as the Galileo Satelites (atleast the military encription.
2. The UK now has to follow EU regulations if it wants to trade with the EU, but now does not get a say in what those regulations are.
3. It promoted a minor fishing industry but at the expense of larger industries such as Financial services. Wich lost preffered treatment and now have to compete in the EU alongside Wallstreet, Hong Kong etc.
4. Lost access to Erasmus, and research access to programs suchs as Horizon Europe.

I will be surprised if the UK Parliament passes it unless they are desperate.

The UK retains access to Horizon under the terms of the agreement.

Keir Starmer confirmed last night that the Labour party will be whipping to vote for the deal, as it is the only alternative to a no-deal brexit. He will, however, be holding Boris' feet to the fire when it turns out to be a bit of a turd.

The Lib Dem leader said that his party will not be supporting the deal, because he thinks that the government can get something better (possibly more cynical reason: the lib dems want people to remember that they exist), but there's only half a dozen of them so that's unlikely to tip the balance.

I expect the ERG Tories (i.e. dribbles' heroes) to vote against the deal, because they want no-deal (and have done from the start).

I expect the majority of Tory MPs to vote for the deal (it wouldn't surprise me if a two or even a three line whip was imposed by the Chief Whip).

Plaid Cymru and the SNP won't be happy with the deal but will probably vote for it, rather than be responsible for bringing around a no-deal brexit.

On the EU side, I expect it to pass in the Parliament when they reconvene in the New Year. They want this done.

[farsas]

Keir Starmer confirmed last night that the Labour party will be whipping to vote for the deal, as it is the only alternative to a no-deal brexit. He will, however, be holding Boris' feet to the fire when it turns out to be a bit of a turd.

No he won't. He's been completely useless since he became leader. I can barely remember him challenging the government on anything. Even if he did all the government has to say is "you voted for it".

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So what? N. Ireland and Gibraltar are not that significant for the EU.

They are very significant for the Irish and the Spanish. I don't think you understand the enormous political implications of this. Many people died trying to prevent what is now inevitable.

[Gorsameth]

So if I understand all opf this correctly.

1. The UK locked itself out of Projects it invested in. Such as the Galileo Satelites (atleast the military encription.
2. The UK now has to follow EU regulations if it wants to trade with the EU, but now does not get a say in what those regulations are.
3. It promoted a minor fishing industry but at the expense of larger industries such as Financial services. Wich lost preffered treatment and now have to compete in the EU alongside Wallstreet, Hong Kong etc.
4. Lost access to Erasmus, and research access to programs suchs as Horizon Europe.

I will be surprised if the UK Parliament passes it unless they are desperate.

But they are desperate, because the only other option is a no-deal Brexit.
There is no support for a full surrender and staying in the EU.

[Forogil]

They already have in this deal. The only part that so far has been retained in security and judicial cooperation seems to be data sharing. Tho for example British and EU warrants or court orders are no longer mutually applicable.

The point was that the things that remain in the that sector in the brexit deal are subject to the uk abiding by ECHR.

Obviously we can't expect british tabloids to be as alert as this forum, but they have noticed it a day later and are screaming Betrayal - https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13...ooperation-spt

[Omega10]

Realistically there's a possibility that the EU will play second fiddle to the growing Asian markets.

So, we might see Asian powers (in particular China) dominating followed by the US and then the EU - or possibly the EU and the US competing for the second spot; and then some minor powers like Russia.

Regardless of what EU does, the Asian markets are growing fast and are overtaking the west. EU, if it works hard and gets a few breaks, will be able to keep up with Asia, or come in at a close enough second. UK is no longer relevant.

The US is on a downward spiral, and is not likely to reverse this for the foreseeable future. Too many divisions and too much corruption and anger to move forward. The US and Russia can play the roles of "balancer countries". In our own ways we are both between Europe and Asia but not really a part of either. Our jobs will be to preserve a balance between the two power blocks.

[Forogil]

Regardless of what EU does, the Asian markets are growing fast and are overtaking the west. EU, if it works hard and gets a few breaks, will be able to keep up with Asia, or come in at a close enough second. UK is no longer relevant.

That was my point. Except I ignored the irrelevant parts.

[Dhrizzle]

The point was that the things that remain in the that sector in the brexit deal are subject to the uk abiding by ECHR.

Obviously we can't expect british tabloids to be as alert as this forum, but they have noticed it a day later and are screaming Betrayal - https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13...ooperation-spt

Just pissing and moaning to rile up their readers for some reason. The fuckers even mention the European Court of Justice to muddy the waters.

The issue a lot of people had with the ECJ is it was an EU institution higher than the UK's High Court and therefore a threat to muh sovereignty. The European Court of Human Rights is a completely different thing. It was set up long before the EU with the UK as a founding member. It's purpose isn't about trade regulation or petty legislation, it was a moral stand against the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany to help guarantee human rights.

It 100% makes sense that nations sharing sensitive security information will want to make sure it is going to nations with similar ethical standpoints and this is a post-war institution that does just that.

I've already noticed grumbling over the ECHR on social media over the past week (hence I can regurgitate the keypoints from wikipedia on demand) and there is definite ignorance to the fact that it is nothing to do with the EU, other than all EU members also signing up to the European Convention on Human Rights along with the other 19 members of the Council of Europe.

[Easo]

I can totally foresee expenses for UK as a country increasing after this.
I wonder what will get the first cut - military, especially the fleet (again) or maybe the golden, but massively bloated child called NHS?
P.S.
The style of Dribbles comments would have seen other posters infracted long time ago. But what do I know... xD

[Temp name]

I can totally foresee expenses for UK as a country increasing after this.
I wonder what will get the first cut - military, especially the fleet (again) or maybe the golden, but massively bloated child called NHS?
P.S.
The style of Dribbles comments would have seen other posters infracted long time ago. But what do I know... xD

Considering that one of the main "draws" for Brexit was the bus which said they'd fund the NHS instead of the EU, if they cut the NHS instead, there'd be riots

Or you know, slightly annoyed facebook posts about it.

[farsas]

The more that comes out about the deal the happier I am.

Britain still has to abide by EU legislation protecting workers but can't actually vote or influence the EU parliament in any way.

Since Britain is controlled by the Tory party this is the best possible outcome for British workers. I might well have voted for it had I known this would happen.

[dribbles]

The more that comes out about the deal the happier I am.

Britain still has to abide by EU legislation protecting workers but can't actually vote or influence the EU parliament in any way.

Since Britain is controlled by the Tory party this is the best possible outcome for British workers. I might well have voted for it had I known this would happen.

Absolutely agree.

Considering the UK has far higher standards than the EU for workers rights in most areas it's good that the level playing field will mean the EU has to raise its game to match ours. About time too.

Brexit even has benefits for eurochums, no wonder everyone is in favour of it.

[farsas]

Absolutely agree.
.

No you don't Dribbles. I am saying the UK has less say now than it did when we were in the EU, which I think is a good thing but you definitely don't.

[Crispin]

Absolutely agree.

Considering the UK has far higher standards than the EU for workers rights in most areas it's good that the level playing field will mean the EU has to raise its game to match ours. About time too.

Brexit even has benefits for eurochums, no wonder everyone is in favour of it.

Are you serious lol?

You’ll play by EU rules kid, be happy for it.

[Forogil]

Absolutely agree.

Considering the UK has far higher standards than the EU for workers rights in most areas it's good that the level playing field will mean the EU has to raise its game to match ours. About time too.

Two wrongs does not make right.

• The uk does not have higher standards for workers rights than the EU, in fact many of the uk worker rights are just implementations of EU law.
• The level playing protects against parties lowering their standards compared to the end of the transition period (which afaik is December 31st 2020) (Part 2, Heading 1 Title XI Article 6.2§2) ; and to strive to improve them (-- Article 6.2§3) - there's nothing about matching the other parties existing standards.

[dribbles]

Are you serious lol?

You’ll play by EU rules kid, be happy for it.

Of course I'm serious.

UK statutory sick pay 28 weeks vs EU no worker protections.
UK holiday pay 5 weeks vs EU 4 weeks
UK maternity leave 52 weeks vs EU 14 weeks
and so on and so on.

We won't play by EU rules, in fact because of Brexit and the level playing field deal we now outside the EU have more chance of improving EU standards than when we were in it! How crazy is that?

Anyhow I'm pleased to celebrate one thing today with you and your President Von der Leyen who tweeted in celebration how finally you are going to begin Covid vaccinations. Very very pleased for you and just glad once again the UK didn't have to follow EU rules in that regard. Seems in the replies to her tweet many eurochums agree with me, I just wish we had been able to raise EU standards in that regard too, I suppose Brexit does have its limitations.

We won't be following many EU rules I promise you with 6 sleeps to go...