View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #26981
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    This is how Dribbles will sell his fish to the EU:
    You're missing the point.

    Dribbles doesn't need to sell his fish to the EU anymore, now he can sell it to China because our waters are SOVERIGN again so we can sink any Chinese trawlers who try to STEAL our fish, which means they will have to PAY us for our fish!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    UK Companies can now deviate from EU regulations, providing they don't ship to the EU. But what kind of goods are we talking about then that would be made in the UK and then shipped half way across the world, that are not better off being made closer to their destination?
    This is a very good point, because one of the main complaints about the CE mark and EU standards in general when they first became the standard for EU members is that they weren't as strict as the BS mark and British standards we already had.

    One would assume if we're bringing our own system in again then at a minimum it would be as strict as the EU one, which means any goods that don't meet standards for export to the EU won't meet standards for sale in the UK either, so what is our plan here? To produce Chinese grade tat and try to sell it to Africa cheaper than China can? lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    Also, what kind of company is going to set up two production lines, one for the EU and one for "other"? They'll either produce to the same standards for both (fulfilling the requirements for both), or they'll stop selling to the stricter market because production is too expensive.
    There is actually something of a historical precedent for this, back when the EU banned plasma TVs it effectively killed them off globally because with the planets largest market for technology now closed to them manufacturers opted to simply cease development and focus on LCD instead of having a separate development/production line for non-EU markets.

  2. #26982
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    There is actually something of a historical precedent for this, back when the EU banned plasma TVs it effectively killed them off globally because with the planets largest market for technology now closed to them manufacturers opted to simply cease development and focus on LCD instead of having a separate development/production line for non-EU markets.
    The EU did not ban plasma. Every body stopped making them for various reasons. One of them being the cost compared to lcd.

  3. #26983
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    The EU did not ban plasma. Every body stopped making them for various reasons. One of them being the cost compared to lcd.
    There are some indications that the EU also tried to ban plasma TV when they were already on the way out; https://www.tomsguide.com/us/Plasma-...news-3281.html

    However, I agree that they mostly disappeared on their own.

  4. #26984
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    There are some indications that the EU also tried to ban plasma TV when they were already on the way out; https://www.tomsguide.com/us/Plasma-...news-3281.html

    However, I agree that they mostly disappeared on their own.
    Sure, they did discuss it because of energy efficiency issues, but it is not an EU ban that killed off plasma.

  5. #26985
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Sure, they did discuss it because of energy efficiency issues, but it is not an EU ban that killed off plasma.
    Perhaps banned in the sense that the EU required manufacturers to label the power usage of their appliances on every house hold device.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
    ― Anthony Hopkins

  6. #26986
    Again, we’re coming back to semantics aren’t we. No, the EU didn’t ban plasma TVs. The EU introduced energy efficiency legislation that led to their obsolescence. And a good thing too.

    BS standards never went away and ran concurrently with EN standards.

    British manufacturing - aerospace, specialised components, - isn’t going to branch out into cheap tat. That ship sailed a long time ago.

    Personally, I’m not worried about a reduction in the standards of our exports. I am worried about a possible reduction in the standards of our imports.

  7. #26987
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Perhaps banned in the sense that the EU required manufacturers to label the power usage of their appliances on every house hold device.
    It seems that there might have been a plan to really ban them - similarly as for incandescent light bulbs (that are sort of banned for households saving lots of energy; and a similar case could be made for plasma TV); but the technical development (and possibly the power usage labelling) made it unnecessary.

  8. #26988
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Thanks to people like me the UK is now in charge of its own destiny.
    We are free to set our own course as the 51st state....

  9. #26989
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    The EU did not ban plasma.
    Oh god here we go

    Yes it's correct that the EU legislation that banned plasma TVs didn't specifically state the technology by name, but that's just semantics. Before the EU passed the legislation it was fine to import/sell them in the EU, afterwards it was not (though ones already on sale could still be sold).

    Once plasma was outlawed in the EU it meant it was no longer a viable technology as non-EU sales wouldn't merit the R&D costs so manufacturers cancelled R&D and stopped producing new models, resulting in a lost decade for displays while LCD R&D rushed to catch up. If that had not happened we would have got the 4K plasmas that were in development and the technology would have stuck around until OLED replaced it.
    Last edited by caervek; 2021-01-04 at 12:13 AM. Reason: Spelling

  10. #26990
    Quote Originally Posted by dwertius View Post
    We are free to set our own course as the 51st state....
    Or just become a territory, like Puerto Rico. Getting taxation without representation would be the height of irony, so it has some chance of happening.

  11. #26991
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Oh god here we go

    Yes it's correct that the EU legislation that banned plasma TVs didn't specifically state the technology by name, but that's just semantics. Before the EU passed the legislation it was fine to import/sell them in the EU, afterwards it was not (though ones already on sale could still be sold).

    Once plasma was outlawed in the EU it meant it was no longer a viable technology as non-EU sales wouldn't merit the R&D costs so manufacturers cancelled R&D and stopped producing new models, resulting in a lost decade for displays while LCD R&D rushed to catch up. If that had not happened we would have got the 4K plasmas that were in development and the technology would have stuck around until OLED replaced it.
    Oh I wasn't trying to go for semantics or be a smartass. I genuinely was curious about this as I'd never heard about it before and couldn't find anything about it.
    All the articles vaguely mentioning it are from british tabloids, and the article linked by Forogil from Tomsguides above uses the Daily Mail as their source. So understandably I have more questions than answers after reading this.
    My understanding is that at the time (the draft regulation in question was in march 2009, and I don't know when that regulation came into force), Panasonic, LG and Samsung had panels that were compliant with this regulation. In 2014 they all stopped making plasma panels, but I can't find anything saying it was because they were too power hungry, or outlawed. The main issue seems to be that by then, LCD tvs had caught up with plasma in size, and resolution (OLED and 4k were already a thing), while being cheaper, thinner and more power efficient.

    Today you can buy a 55inch 8k OLED smart tv for quite a bit less than a similarly sized high end plasma tv 7 years ago.
    I'm not sure this is something we should lament, and blame legislators for.

  12. #26992
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Thanks to people like me the UK is now in charge of its own destiny. How will historians in years to come record this momentous occasion?
    "Stupidity and lack of education leads to the end of what used to be one of the great nations in the world that struggled to remain significant after WW2." It's been fun, UK, you won't be missed.

  13. #26993
    My new ambition is to get the UK back in the EU within Farage's lifetime.

  14. #26994
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    "Stupidity and lack of education leads to the end of what used to be one of the great nations in the world that struggled to remain significant after WW2." It's been fun, UK, you won't be missed.
    /yawn @ nation-bashing. That’s an uninformed and inflammatory comment worthy of Dribbles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    My new ambition is to get the UK back in the EU within Farage's lifetime.
    That said, IDD with e.g., some of the EU posters here like Slant and Acidbaron. Best thing now for the UK to be out for a significant chunk of time.

    You reckon Farage’s lifetime? So, a generation / 20 - 30 years? I reckon that’s the absolute minimum:

    - For people to realise the promised land of Brexit dividends was in fact a non-existent pot of gold at the end of the chunder rainbow streaming from the mouths of the profiteering charlatans who brought this about.

    - Complete the natural transfer of power from the anti-EU Boomers & ambivalent Gen X to the pro-EU Gen Y & Gen Z. Unless the Boomers start farming the younger folk for their organs in a bid for immortality a la Never Let Me Go.

    - For Gen Y & Gen Z to bring about the electoral reform necessary to bring the UK kicking and screaming out of the 19th century and into the 21st.

  15. #26995
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    "Stupidity and lack of education leads to the end of what used to be one of the great nations in the world that struggled to remain significant after WW2." It's been fun, UK, you won't be missed.
    As someone who reads quite a lot of non-fiction for a hobby, actual historians generally are not in the business of passing judgement on historical figures in an outright derogatory manner, but documenting motivations driving the actions of individuals, and the consequences to events there off. Neither do they engage in the sort of propaganda spreading Dribbles imagines it to be.

    That is to say, even though poor knowledge about what the EU does is certainly part of what drove Brexit, they certainly won't frame it anywhere near that crudely.

  16. #26996
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    to bring the UK kicking and screaming out of the 19th century and into the 21st.
    Right on time for the 22nd ?

  17. #26997
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    As someone who reads quite a lot of non-fiction for a hobby, actual historians generally are not in the business of passing judgement on historical figures in an outright derogatory manner, but documenting motivations driving the actions of individuals, and the consequences to events there off. Neither do they engage in the sort of propaganda spreading Dribbles imagines it to be.

    That is to say, even though poor knowledge about what the EU does is certainly part of what drove Brexit, they certainly won't frame it anywhere near that crudely.
    Out of interest, who's he quoting / misquoting?

    Either way - it's not a lot of use is it. I'll take flack all day long from the informed posters in this thread but not from baity McBait face above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Right on time for the 22nd ?
    Ha. Yes. I see you share my pessimism!

  18. #26998
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Right on time for the 22nd ?
    I'm convinced that a lot of the voters over here would vote to keep us out of the Federation of Planets. "Bloody aliens, coming over here with their warp technology and replicators. They can sod off and leave us to roll around in the mud".
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
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  19. #26999
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Out of interest, who's he quoting / misquoting?

    Either way - it's not a lot of use is it. I'll take flack all day long from the informed posters in this thread but not from baity McBait face above.

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    Ha. Yes. I see you share my pessimism!
    If he's quoting someone, it isn't anyone that should be called a historian.

    Classifying Brexit and the consequences of it as "end of a nation" is hyperbolic nonsense.

  20. #27000
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    If he's quoting someone, it isn't anyone that should be called a historian.

    Classifying Brexit and the consequences of it as "end of a nation" is hyperbolic nonsense.
    Depends, if Brexit cause Scotland and N. Ireland to leave the uk it wouldn't be that farfetched to use that as a label. A bit exaggerated, but not full on hyperbolic.

    However, we don't know if that will happen.

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