View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #29221
    Apparently, when your goal is ethno-nationalism, and you don't want foreigners... someone will eventually have to do all the jobs the foreigners were doing.

    The Brexiteers never really thought this through.

  2. #29222
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Apparently, when your goal is ethno-nationalism, and you don't want foreigners... someone will eventually have to do all the jobs the foreigners were doing.

    The Brexiteers never really thought this through.
    That's what the Irish were for before the foreigners took their jobs away.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  3. #29223
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Apparently, when your goal is ethno-nationalism, and you don't want foreigners... someone will eventually have to do all the jobs the foreigners were doing.

    The Brexiteers never really thought this through.
    On the bright side, look at how much jobs are available for British people now that the UK got rid of the damn foreigners stealing the honourable people's jobs! Unemployment rates should be at a historical low. They should be happy they took back control of the market place. But what do you mean, British don't want those jobs either and the whole UK economy relies on foreigners doing the shittiest/less interesting tasks? Who could have predicted that you don't get rid of the people you need the most.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-09-25 at 04:20 PM.

  4. #29224
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    That's what the Irish were for before the foreigners took their jobs away.
    Irish what century is this?

    buddy of mine does stuff for events usually ships in 450 Romanians for litter picking. because of brexit and covid had to hire brits only 125 turned up out of 450, half left after 2 days of 7. utter clusterfuck.

    the funny thing is the Europeans aren't coming back, gonna have to go further a field. the brexiteers who had problems with poles are about to get Turks and Algerians as neighbors. sure they will take it well.

  5. #29225
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    No shortages in my local Waitrose this morning I,m pleased to report, however...

    The global supply chain issues are no more to do with Brexit than global warming is. Many places in the EU, Poland for example, have it worse than the UK in terms of lorry driver shortages. Did Brexit cause that too?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/garthfr...h=103194f43491

    Silly attempt to stray off the topic of Brexit to deflect from a sour remainers lost cause. Start another thread would be my advice, it has nothing to do with this one.
    Oh, so because yours is fine, means that all of them are fine? Talk about anecdotal bullshit. I will go with the sources, over someone who doesn't go outside of his bubble very often, when he knows he is wrong.

  6. #29226
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    No shortages in my local Waitrose this morning I,m pleased to report
    Didn't know they had Waitrose in Australia.
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    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  7. #29227
    South of England dweller here.

    Currently have petrol and diesel shortages.

    Food seems plentiful at the moment, i haven't seen any major shortages yet.

    There are multiple reasons for HGV driver shortages. Currently losing about 2,000 drivers per week.

    This is mostly due to retirees not being replaced by younger people believe it or not, training of which can cost up to £7,000 and low wages being a big deterrent.

    Covid has played a big part, especially since EU lorry drivers can't actually get in to the UK due to PCR testing requirements.

    Brexit has played a part too, but according to sky news its nowhere near as big as the retiree and covid issues.

    We will soon find out though, UK government have increased driver wages to excellent levels, moving to a green / red covid system and creating priority working visas for EU workers.

    If the crisis isn't resolved with those measures, then yes we can say the only factor remaining to blame was Brexit.

  8. #29228
    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    This is mostly due to retirees not being replaced by younger people believe it or not, training of which can cost up to £7,000 and low wages being a big deterrent.

    Covid has played a big part, especially since EU lorry drivers can't actually get in to the UK due to PCR testing requirements.

    Brexit has played a part too, but according to sky news its nowhere near as big as the retiree and covid issues.
    The retiree part is still a Brexit consequence if UK used to replace retirees with EU drivers, which means due to Brexit you can't replace old drivers anymore.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-09-25 at 07:13 PM.

  9. #29229
    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    The retiree part is still a Brexit consequence if UK used to replace retirees with EU drivers, which means due to Brexit you can't replace old drivers anymore.
    Will be interesting to see.

    If the covid requirements are relaxed and still there no EU drivers coming, then it was Brexit.

    If the EU drivers do come though, then it was covid.

    I suspect they will come due to the salaries being so high.

    65,000 EUR isn't bad pay.

  10. #29230
    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    Will be interesting to see.

    If the covid requirements are relaxed and still there no EU drivers coming, then it was Brexit.

    If the EU drivers do come though, then it was covid.

    I suspect they will come due to the salaries being so high.

    65,000 EUR isn't bad pay.
    It wasn't just the Covid restrictions. They couldn't get a work visa due to the changes made for Brexit. That was the rule change that Boris is in the process of reversing for HGV drivers.

    If they come back, it will be Brexit. If they don't come back, it will STILL be Brexit. And yes, we'll need to be paying them about triple what they used to get before Brexit. Because one of the side-effects of Brexit is that the salaries of HGV drivers have gone through the roof.

    Once everything settles down again, it will be interesting to see if Boris reinstates the exclusion of EU drivers. Because if British people aren't stepping up to fill those roles, we will be back to square one.
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  11. #29231
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    It wasn't just the Covid restrictions. They couldn't get a work visa due to the changes made for Brexit. That was the rule change that Boris is in the process of reversing for HGV drivers.

    If they come back, it will be Brexit. If they don't come back, it will STILL be Brexit. And yes, we'll need to be paying them about triple what they used to get before Brexit. Because one of the side-effects of Brexit is that the salaries of HGV drivers have gone through the roof.

    Once everything settles down again, it will be interesting to see if Boris reinstates the exclusion of EU drivers. Because if British people aren't stepping up to fill those roles, we will be back to square one.
    If you were a Brexit voting UK lorry driver, as i expect many are, would you be over the moon about your salary tripling? I bet you'd be spreading the Brexit benefits gospel far and wide as you rejoice at just where you were going to buy your next 2nd holiday home.

    No way would you want unrestricted cheap EU labour flooding in and halving your wages to pre-brexit levels. And for lorry drivers who once voted remain I bet they have switched sides cementing the referendum result and regret every moment how they made such a silly mistake.

    So many winners from Brexit and it's great to see that fact publicised so widely on here.

    Of course in my opinion the global shortage of HGV drivers is nothing to do with Brexit, but on the other hand if people say it is who am I to disagree with yet another benefit of Brexit, if as an unintended consequence, having the spotlight shone on it. Especially by remainers.

    Got any more?...
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  12. #29232
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post

    Once everything settles down again, it will be interesting to see if Boris reinstates the exclusion of EU drivers. Because if British people aren't stepping up to fill those roles, we will be back to square one.
    Legit question tho. I know it takes a while to train up a driver (contrary to popular belief), and it's not the world's most comfortable job, but how high does the pay need to go before UK citizens go like - You're paying what? Sure, I'll do it.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2021-09-25 at 10:22 PM.

  13. #29233
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Of course in my opinion the global shortage of HGV drivers is nothing to do with Brexit, but on the other hand if people say it is who am I to disagree with yet another benefit of Brexit
    What about the UK being in the EU was stopping it from mandating higher wages for lorry drivers? Minimum wage laws and industry awards are a thing. Rofl.

    Other countries also have both COVID and an HGV shortage without it resulting in a bottleneck on basic goods. This is entirely the fault of Brexit, and the fact that it has to get to a point of desperation before you bother paying lorry drivers more is indicative of just how little of a shit you give about said lorry drivers, or any member of society besides yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #29234
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post

    Got any more?...
    Your opinions are irrelevant.

    There are driver shortages everywhere, yet there are no actual shortages of basic food products anywhere outside the UK.

    More importantly, have you considered getting professional help? Even if you're in the middle of the Outback, I'm sure there are mental health professionals in Australia who provide online consultations.

  15. #29235
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    It wasn't just the Covid restrictions. They couldn't get a work visa due to the changes made for Brexit. That was the rule change that Boris is in the process of reversing for HGV drivers.

    If they come back, it will be Brexit. If they don't come back, it will STILL be Brexit. And yes, we'll need to be paying them about triple what they used to get before Brexit. Because one of the side-effects of Brexit is that the salaries of HGV drivers have gone through the roof.

    Once everything settles down again, it will be interesting to see if Boris reinstates the exclusion of EU drivers. Because if British people aren't stepping up to fill those roles, we will be back to square one.
    I agree with most of this with the additional comment that it's easy to see why UK lorry drivers would have been pro-Brexit.

    Their salaries have gone through the roof.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Your opinions are irrelevant.

    There are driver shortages everywhere, yet there are no actual shortages of basic food products anywhere outside the UK.

    More importantly, have you considered getting professional help? Even if you're in the middle of the Outback, I'm sure there are mental health professionals in Australia who provide online consultations.
    London is the largest city in the EU by a long way.

    10 million people.

    Next largest is Madrid with 3.5 million people.

    It stands to reason that London / UK having the biggest city and the fact it's an island would run out of stock first.

    There are many factors outside of Brexit that have contributed, not just Brexit.

  16. #29236
    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post

    London is the largest city in the EU by a long way.

    10 million people.

    Next largest is Madrid with 3.5 million people.

    It stands to reason that London / UK having the biggest city and the fact it's an island would run out of stock first.

    There are many factors outside of Brexit that have contributed, not just Brexit.
    Shortages are UK wide. Not London specific.

    Again, the shortages the UK experiencing are UK specific and are the compounded results of various factors, ranging from higher prices and tariffs, to bureaucratic hurdles, paper work, lack of regulatory clarity, global supply chain complications rooted in Covid, British immigration and labor policies.

    Almost every single one of those factors is either directly caused by Brexit or made worse by Brexit.

    It's a self inflicted wound and addressing the driver shortage might ameliorate the problem, but won't fix it, as the myriad of other problems are still there.

    Tho notion that British drivers now making an extra buck is a Brexit benefit is absurdly idiotic considering the economy wide damage the shortages are causing.

    The collapse of the energy sector and the sky rocketing energy prices midst of a fuel shortage and a CO2 shortage are also not helping. Not helping the consumers and not helping the producers.

    These are the very moments when drawing upon the vast resources of a massive trading block would be quite handy.... A trading block like the one upon which the UK is fully reliant but chose to leave?
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2021-09-26 at 06:56 AM.

  17. #29237
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    London is the largest city in the EU by a long way.

    10 million people.

    Next largest is Madrid with 3.5 million people.

    It stands to reason that London / UK having the biggest city and the fact it's an island would run out of stock first.

    There are many factors outside of Brexit that have contributed, not just Brexit.
    hahaha what is your source for this, I want to laugh some more.
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  18. #29238
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    If you were a Brexit voting UK lorry driver, as i expect many are, would you be over the moon about your salary tripling? I bet you'd be spreading the Brexit benefits gospel far and wide as you rejoice at just where you were going to buy your next 2nd holiday home.
    So what are you saying is that we should make everyone pay more for goods and services because British drivers want more pay.

    I don't think British people actually want that. I think if they can get in foreigners to do the job cheaper then they will. The government obviously agrees, that's why they are letting foreign drivers in.

    Thought experiment: would the British people like to pay extra taxes to subsidize the wages of those drivers? I very much doubt it. But that is essentially the same thing.

    I'd add that I and most of British economy have to complete in the global marketplace: if foreigners can do a job cheaper for the same quality then clients will go to them, not us. I don't see why drivers should be some exception to that rule.

    Btw Lorry drivers will be largely replaced by automation in 3-5 years. Only an idiot would get involved in a dying industry right now.
    Last edited by handlup; 2021-09-26 at 09:09 AM.

  19. #29239
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    hahaha what is your source for this, I want to laugh some more.
    Sky News.

    The list seems pretty conclusive to be fair.

    There are lots of reasons according to them.

    Edit - can't paste the link.

    Google this, you should find it.

    story/supply-crisis-why-is-there-a-hgv-driver-shortage-and-how-bad-could-the-problem-get-12417317
    Last edited by Korno8k; 2021-09-26 at 09:08 AM.

  20. #29240
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    Sky News.

    The list seems pretty conclusive to be fair.

    There are lots of reasons according to them.
    So Sky News is unaware of Berlin and using a not stupid measurement Paris and it seems Brexit as they still think London is part of the EU.

    Yeah, that's a source I'd trust. Even better though, Istanbul and Moscow seem to just not light up on the radar despite depending on the same routes as every other city in Europe.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

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