[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Huehuecoyotl]

All of those points you mention Brexit has changed for the better though from a UK pov.

The EU has always relied on NATO for its military strength and defence = no change. The UK no longer contributes to the EU budget = UK stronger.
The UK gained economic independence, sovereignty and global influence = UK stronger. Want to deal with us talk to us, not Brussels.
The EU represents a declining 5% of the world's population, it allowed the UK to trade with the other 95% of the world with permission under EU terms and conditions, effectively the UK had one hand tied behind its back in global trade negotiations. Now free from those EU shackles = UK stronger.

A stronger UK means the west overall is stronger. The EU had their chance to stop Brexit when David Cameron sat down at the negotiating table with them and set out his demands. The fact they refused to entertain them and are now weaker as a result is honestly not my concern.

They always needed us more than we needed them and still do, but as you say and I agree This thread should never be closed. It's the ultimate: I told you so.

Brexit reduces our trade, and our GDP goes down by 5%.

We sign a deal with the CPTPP that, by the Brexiteer governments own calculations, might add 0.09% to GDP by 2030.

THIS is what you're celebrating. This is the big win that you keep trumpeting. You've chopped off a foot, and are cheering the fact that you've retained a toenail and painted it with a fucking Union Jack.

Most of the "new" trade deals we've signed are on worse terms than we got as part of the EU. The ones that aren't, like NZ and Australia, are damaging to our country and our industries. But we're having to sign them because Brexiteers are desparate for anything they can sell as a win to gullible idiots. And every country we're negotiating with knows that.

As ever, you've got nothing, and what little you do have you try and misrepresent. Bad faith, as always.

[Fuiking]

I get what you are saying and in isolation for the odd troll post I agree, but when so many people are debunking what he says constantly, quite often with fact's linked from reputable sources, he totality ignores them or disappears from the thread for a few days to a week.

Then he drops back with fresh new claims about how great Brexit is and totally ignores anything anybody said in response to his previous visit. While using Fact4eu as a source or opinion pieces from rightwing rags as legitimate facts, He hardly ever uses links from more highbrow right wing press as they tend to be less hyperbolic and honest for him to use to farm reactions.

This has been going on since 2017, from his first post:


The tone hasn't changed since then, he is trolling look for reactions plain and simple, its not too much to expect the mod team to add 2+2 when this pattern of behaviour has been going on over such an extended period and has no interested in engaging in a straight and honest conversation about Brexit.

I would be quite happy if they closed this thread in 2020 when we left the EU! But here we still are in 2023 and Brexit is still shit and no sunlit uplands!

That first post was such a big lie, also it can technically sow hatred towards a number of nations and organisations right? Bannable offense... right there.. but the moderation on here is hilariously bad most of the time.. I have said things I would have gotten a nice timeout or ban at any place but managed to get through it.. (my utter hate during the covid years a prime example)

[Nymrohd]

That first post was such a big lie, also it can technically sow hatred towards a number of nations and organisations right? Bannable offense... right there.. but the moderation on here is hilariously bad most of the time.. I have said things I would have gotten a nice timeout or ban at any place but managed to get through it.. (my utter hate during the covid years a prime example)

I mean I get the EU is not a country and the rule is specifically for county bashing. But this is exactly what he does in every post. I remember early on with the referendum and after plenty of people got infracted for UK bashing and rightfully so.

[Mazza]

The EU had their chance to stop Brexit when David Cameron sat down at the negotiating table with them and set out his demands.

... You do realise that Brexit has always been more about UK domestic politics than EU-UK relations right? The ONLY reason Cameron held the Brexit referendum was because it was an election promise he used to win a general election, because Farage and his stooges made it a populist election theme and were eating voters from his right wing.

What am I saying, of course you don't realise...

[Xarkan]

A stronger UK means the west overall is stronger. The EU had their chance to stop Brexit when David Cameron sat down at the negotiating table with them and set out his demands. The fact they refused to entertain them and are now weaker as a result is honestly not my concern.

The fact is they did not refuse to entertain those demands though since there were negotiations, there even was a deal back in the day between the EU and cameron.

[Huehuecoyotl]

More educated opinions on the stupidity of Brexit:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sury-secretary

When an economist describes Brexit as an "historic economic error" you know you done fucked up. I guess he isn't impressed by the 0.08% projected GDP increase from the NZ/Australia deal, eh dribbles?

[dribbles]

More educated opinions on the stupidity of Brexit:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sury-secretary

When an economist describes Brexit as an "historic economic error" you know you done fucked up. I guess he isn't impressed by the 0.08% projected GDP increase from the NZ/Australia deal, eh dribbles?

Not everything is about economics, but as you seem so interested in the pessimistic side of it from that remainer rag the Guardian here is a different point of view from a British economist rather than a foreign one..

Looking backwards:- The UK economy has grown as much, or more, than all G7 European peers since Brexit

And looking forwards :- The IMF forecasts that the UK will be best performing G7 European economy between 2024-2028

https://conservativehome.com/2023/05...an-neighbours/

Perhaps you'd like to forward that link to your man James OBrien for comment? Two sides of the coin Huey, Keir Starmer obviously believes in the opinion of the beautiful Brexit I present and not the Guardian one as he reiterates once again this week that Britain's future is outside the EU. it's almost a competition between Labour and the Tories over who can be most Brexity as they attempt to court my vote.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/sta...01783850786816

The rejoin campaign is in tatters and it is only a matter of time before the few left that advocate for it abandon it altogether.

[Veggie50]

Not everything is about economics, but as you seem so interested in the pessimistic side of it from that remainer rag the Guardian here is a different point of view from a British economist rather than a foreign one..

Looking backwards:- The UK economy has grown as much, or more, than all G7 European peers since Brexit

And looking forwards :- The IMF forecasts that the UK will be best performing G7 European economy between 2024-2028

https://conservativehome.com/2023/05...an-neighbours/

Perhaps you'd like to forward that link to your man James OBrien for comment? Two sides of the coin Huey, Keir Starmer obviously believes in the opinion of the beautiful Brexit I present and not the Guardian one as he reiterates once again this week that Britain's future is outside the EU. it's almost a competition between Labour and the Tories over who can be most Brexity as they attempt to court my vote.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/sta...01783850786816

The rejoin campaign is in tatters and it is only a matter of time before the few left that advocate for it abandon it altogether.

"The IMF says..." followed by a source that is suspiciously NOT the IMF.

[Huehuecoyotl]

"The IMF says..." followed by a source that is suspiciously NOT the IMF.

I'm almost fed up with checking dribbles sources, because it's usually pointless. But I'm willing to bet that the Conservative Home spin on what the IMS supposedly said won't be too close to reality.

Also, fucking lolz at dribbles inability to be consistent coming to the fore again. If an economist posts something bad about Brexit, he's all "you can't believe experts". As soon as he thinks one says something positive, suddenly it's a reason for the whole Remain argument to collapse to dust.

He spins so fast he can probably see his own back.

[Edit]. I had a glance through the link that dribbles provided, and I'm pretty sure I can see why it chimed with him. Hell, looking at the article that could actually be dribbles. It's chock full of things that are either obvious lies, or probably lies if I can be bothered to look them up. Along with a healthy ladle of hypocrisy, as she bemoans cherry-picking of statistics while proceeding to do just that.

It's laughably poor, and typical dribbles. I might go through the various specific bits of nonsense if I can face it. But there's no point doing that for dribbles, because he'll ignore everything I write and then strut around pretending he's won. Pigeon. Chess. Etc.

[LeGin v3]

All of those points you mention Brexit has changed for the better though from a UK pov.

The EU has always relied on NATO for its military strength and defence = no change.

Well, this is an entirely separate issue isn't it. The strength of NATO depends entirely on who's in the White House. Russia's interference in US politics is as comprehensively documented as its interference in UK politics. In 2018 Trump said repeatedly he wanted to withdraw the US from NATO. I do not think it's an exaggeration to say that had Biden not won, Russia would have made forays into Finland by now.

The UK no longer contributes to the EU budget = UK stronger.

No, because having withdrawn from the EU the UK is now poorer. I'm not going to bother relinking evidence. You'll simply ignore or deny it.

The UK gained economic independence, sovereignty and global influence = UK stronger. Want to deal with us talk to us, not Brussels.

No-one wants to talk to the UK! We're an irrelevance! Douglas Carswell: "I think free trade would be relatively straightforward between the UK and America". What a joke. Our politicians cannot be trusted! Brandon Lewis stood at the despatch box and announced new legislation for the Northern Ireland protocol which “breaks international law in a specific and limited way”. They're a disgrace. Anyone who votes for these charlatans is a disgrace.

The EU represents a declining 5% of the world's population, it allowed the UK to trade with the other 95% of the world with permission under EU terms and conditions, effectively the UK had one hand tied behind its back in global trade negotiations. Now free from those EU shackles = UK stronger.

The UK is poorer. As above, I'm not going to start relinking evidence. That ship has sailed.

but as you say and I agree This thread should never be closed. It's the ultimate: I told you so.

Yes! We agree!

[dribbles]

I'm surprised this didn't get a mention here, although maybe not.

BREXIT LIFT-OFF

https://conservativepost.co.uk/brexi...deals-go-live/

Anyone else, like me, in the UK looking forward to trying their first Tim Tams with their morning cuppa? More Brexit benefits to add to the unending list...

[Gorsameth]

I'm surprised this didn't get a mention here, although maybe not.

BREXIT LIFT-OFF

https://conservativepost.co.uk/brexi...deals-go-live/

Anyone else, like me, in the UK looking forward to trying their first Tim Tams with their morning cuppa? More Brexit benefits to add to the unending list...

That would be the amazing trade deal that is going to destroy the UK's farming sector by flooding the country with cheap imports right?

Nothing says "taking back control" like becoming completely dependant on another country for your basic food needs.

[postman1782]

I'm surprised this didn't get a mention here, although maybe not.

BREXIT LIFT-OFF

https://conservativepost.co.uk/brexi...deals-go-live/

Anyone else, like me, in the UK looking forward to trying their first Tim Tams with their morning cuppa? More Brexit benefits to add to the unending list...

So far, you haven't added anything to the list yet.

[Kiria]

I'm surprised this didn't get a mention here, although maybe not.

BREXIT LIFT-OFF

https://conservativepost.co.uk/brexi...deals-go-live/

Anyone else, like me, in the UK looking forward to trying their first Tim Tams with their morning cuppa? More Brexit benefits to add to the unending list...

Even your own CONservative ministers are turning against Brexshit.

[jonnysensible]

didnt the aussies bend the uk over because boris is a dumbass who doesn't bother to do any work and just blags it?

[Huehuecoyotl]

I'm surprised this didn't get a mention here, although maybe not.

BREXIT LIFT-OFF

https://conservativepost.co.uk/brexi...deals-go-live/

Anyone else, like me, in the UK looking forward to trying their first Tim Tams with their morning cuppa? More Brexit benefits to add to the unending list...

You don't get to call a list "unending" just because you've never started it. Just saying.

Meanwhile, in the real world, UK exports have fallen for the 16th month in a row. But sure, we're "booming" in our new Brexit world.

[dribbles]

You don't get to call a list "unending" just because you've never started it. Just saying.

Meanwhile, in the real world, UK exports have fallen for the 16th month in a row. But sure, we're "booming" in our new Brexit world.

Not to the commonwealth, a market 5 times the size of the EU.

Value of UK exports to the Commonwealth up by 22% in cash terms in 2022

https://facts4eu.org/news/2023_may_c...lth_and_brexit

And oh dear Mercedes Benz not too happy with the EU as it appears to be sanctioning itself with post Brexit tariffs.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ffs-car-makers

No wonder car manufacturers are flocking back to the sunlit uplands of Brexit Britain in another addition to that long list of Brexit benefit wins.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Not to the commonwealth, a market 5 times the size of the EU.

Value of UK exports to the Commonwealth up by 22% in cash terms in 2022

https://facts4eu.org/news/2023_may_c...lth_and_brexit

And oh dear Mercedes Benz not too happy with the EU as it appears to be sanctioning itself with post Brexit tariffs.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ffs-car-makers

No wonder car manufacturers are flocking back to the sunlit uplands of Brexit Britain in another addition to that long list of Brexit benefit wins.

STOP LYING.

Car manufacturers have been saying very recently that Brexit is forcing them to consider moving out of the UK. I linked an article about it. They certainly aren't "flocking back".

And exports to the Commonwealth going up by an amount that is smaller than the drop in exports to the EU is NOT a good thing. Because the final number is smaller. Want me to draw some diagrams for you? Our exports have been shrinking 16 months in a row. Brexit is damaging this countries exports every month. Every. Single. Month. I'd suggest you talk to an economist to explain the problem with this to you, but I know how Brexiteers recoil from experts.

Oh, and I'll ask the same question I've been asking for years now; where is that long list of Brexit benefits? You keep talking about it like it's a real thing, but you never share it. If I were a Brexiteer and I had a long list of benefits, I'd be sharing it every chance I had. I'd link it everytime a Remainer complained. Hell, I'd put it in my signature. Yet here we are, with you refusing to share this list in any form.

It's almost as if you just continually lie about the existence of this list. It would really help this discussion if you just stopped lying.

[LeGin v3]

The very same. As if getting Tim Tams, when you could buy the British version from the British company, is a Brexit benefit lol

Traitor to his own cause.

IMO you can't beat a Tunnock's Caramel Wafer

[Kallisto]

I'm surprised this didn't get a mention here, although maybe not.

BREXIT LIFT-OFF

https://conservativepost.co.uk/brexi...deals-go-live/

Anyone else, like me, in the UK looking forward to trying their first Tim Tams with their morning cuppa? More Brexit benefits to add to the unending list...

we were supposed to have Tim Tams years ago. It's a joke between myself and my Aussie friends in regards to the lack of Tim Tams here.

Not just that but these deals are always going to be worse than the deals the EU has because the EU is the best at making deals due to them having clauses that basically says "If we think anyone has a better deal than us, we have the right to change our deal to make it better for us than that one."