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  1. #1

    Hunters need a complete rework

    and by "complete" I don't mean to turn them upside down for no good reason, more like "set things right this time", because in Legion all specs feel and play like a total, poorly thought out mess, both by theme and gameplay.

    TBH I'd scrap idea of survival spec entirely. Cataclysm brought us idea of "specs" we know today, but before that we were playing classes, that happened to be able to follow certain path that would lead them to become better at what they do. So while it works for paladins to have 3 specs, as they have 3 possible roles to perform, it does not quite fit all classes and so some specs feel kind of forced as "survival" is just a generic hunter toolkit (traps, camouflage, feign death etc) no hunter should be ever left without. I was glad to hear they decided to just stick to 2 specs for DHs.
    For hunters tho, I'd go for option for BM hunter to be both, melee and ranged at will in a way Fwarriors had option to use 1handers or 2handers. Perhaps there could be slight TAX for ranged option compared to melee but nothing too big, say a ~5% difference, and with as small change in play style as possible, just an option to go melee or ranged. BM requires a revamp too so it would align very well.
    I am pretty sure its not all that hard to code abilities to change their functionality based on either equipped weapon type or some kind of stance (something like boomie talent http://www.wowhead.com/spell=202360, unusable in combat, or glad stance named "Way of the Mok'Natha") where it would change abilities between their melee and ranged version:
    Raptor Strike <---> Cobra Shot ST filler
    Carve <---> Multi-Shot AoE filler
    Moongose Bite <---> Chimera Shot
    Harpoon <---> Disengage
    Muzzle <--->Counter Shot
    etc
    option for 2hander or dual-wield would be welcome too, even if not totally balanced.
    overall, mechanically It could very well work 1:1 with little to no problem too as now even agi trinkets work for both melee and ranged attacks.
    For MMs "fantasy" is strictly ranged combat obviously, but pet could either:
    - be mostly an utility tool, and provide close to no damage, lets say ~3% of overall MM damage
    - or pet could work in tandem with hunter, more or less how it works for surv now, where it procs something like "vulnerable" debuff increasing hunters own damage (kind
    of like Quinn's pet from LoL)
    - or I'd scap idea of autoshotts and make pet perform that autoattack damage for hunter, while hunter fires just hard hitters in a way casters do. Monks were supposed to be a class with no autoattack but Blizzard has scapped the idea, so I don't know.
    Pre-Legion surv felt and played a lot like a weird twist of MM and I can see possibility to implement such talents into MM tree to regain that "original" surv feel.

    In before you start to scream at me for "destroying" legion surv spec you happened to like:
    As I said above, marksman's could choose to play "regular" marksman or more in a way old surv did (explosive shot instead of aimed, serpent sting, black arrow(It never fit hunter nor surv theme imo, such a random spell) etc), so really just a names of few abilities would change, that means hunters would have right of the bat not 3 styles of play/themes but 4, despite 2 specs, just without all the shenanigans that would come with trying to make 4 completely unique specs where there is a common base anyway, this way we could avoid problem with different loot tables and such. Basically MM could play like they always did, people that liked old surv would hgave it too, just under different spec name, and Bm, BMs would have to... L2P a bit as I can see bit of shift from pet doing 80% of the work to more active gameplay. For better in all honestly as even blizzard seems to have a problem with "AI specs" which is hard to balance, specially in PvP.

  2. #2
    The Patient Donkeywing's Avatar
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    They don't care and aren't competent enough, save yourself the trouble and reroll/quit if you still believe its a mess.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Zapgreen's Avatar
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    While I don't agree with scrapping specs, I'd say BM definitely needs an overhaul. I think they missed the boat on making BM the melee spec though, they surely must have forgotten about perhaps the most famous BM in lore who happens to melee (Rexxar).

    Barring in mind they are going to want to stick to their guns and keep SV the melee spec, I'd like to see BM become more of a DoT spec like feral. It would give hunters the options of being a heavy hitter with casting shots (MM), a melee spec (SV), and a DoT build (BM). It makes sense to me that ferals scratches and bites cause bleed damage, well they're just turning into animals to do that. We tame animals to do that. I'd actually tap into the DK's niche and use disease DoTs as well, boosting the power of dispel disease which is only functional against DKs in PvP.

    I think that for all the shit that we summon it's too easy to avoid (aoe cc or walking away at a brisk pace) and so personally I'd like to get it away from the AI damage. I could see much of our attacks working like Murder of Crows where the hunter applies the damage and the animal is more of a spell effect/cosmetic thing than the dealer of the damage. The way the Dire hawk works is another great example. Blizz obviously knows how to attach shit to our heads (like murlocs in ToS) so a spell where we throw a raccoon on the target and it inflicts rabies on them would be cool and right up our alley. The talent Aspect of the Beast should probably just be baseline where Kill command does a hit and applied a short bleed. and replace it with the return of an execute under the name "go for the throat" to make the talent choice in that row meaningful.

    Those are just a few ideas I've had regarding the spec, I also had a thought about BM as a true ranged/pet tank but I don't really see that happening, as much as I would love it. I think that tweaking BM into a bleed/disease DoT spec would make balancing a lot easier since we could cut out much of the AI out of range/out of LoS bull shit that blizz hates to balance around.
    "Always wash your berries before you eat them...And fly towards the sun!"

  4. #4
    The Patient Ladyoftheforest's Avatar
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    No, thanks. I like MM the way it is and petless.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyoftheforest View Post
    No, thanks. I like MM the way it is and petless.
    Agree.
    If you want to manage a pet, you can always choose bm.
    If you don't want to bother with pets, no options then?

    I don't mind if Blizz change PS to the flat bonus (It will solve all our issues with movement).

    But the pet, no, thx.

  6. #6
    I like BM how it is currently personally.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Razorice's Avatar
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    I like BM the way it is.
    Survival on the other hand ssshould just be reverted to how it was back in MoP, I loved it.

  8. #8
    I like all the specs as they are now. Other then how mongoose bite works on survival, I'd rather they keep the base they have now and add stuff and tweak some stuff then a full rework.

  9. #9
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razorice View Post
    Survival on the other hand ssshould just be reverted to how it was back in MoP, I loved it.
    Not sure how much actually changed, but man I loved early-cataclysm survival, those explosive shots were awesome.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zapgreen View Post
    While I don't agree with scrapping specs, I'd say BM definitely needs an overhaul.
    You have it wrong there...they already scrapped Surv to make another useless melee class no one asked for. BM is the only spec that is remotely playable because its the least changed spec from before.

    I laugh at people who like MM, HFC MM, DS MM, ICC MM all those playstyle were better then it was now. Todays MM is the worst incarnation of that spec.

    and surv...bring back the old spec. I didnt roll Hunter 12+ years ago to play melee.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyoftheforest View Post
    No, thanks. I like MM the way it is and petless.
    (1) MM playstyle was better in HFC (petless), DS and ICC (with pet)

    (2) There should never be a option for no pet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesde View Post
    Agree.
    If you want to manage a pet, you can always choose bm.
    If you don't want to bother with pets, no options then?

    I don't mind if Blizz change PS to the flat bonus (It will solve all our issues with movement).

    But the pet, no, thx.
    Then roll another class. A hunter should always have a pet.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyoftheforest View Post
    No, thanks. I like MM the way it is and petless.

    petless is fine but current mm is dreadful, vulnerable is a colossus smash copy (lol so much for class fantasy)
    chimera shot, our most iconic ability since wrath given to bm who don't even use it... and the mobility is gutted. No. this is a terrible version of MM and i can't wake up

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    You have it wrong there...they already scrapped Surv to make another useless melee class no one asked for. BM is the only spec that is remotely playable because its the least changed spec from before.

    I laugh at people who like MM, HFC MM, DS MM, ICC MM all those playstyle were better then it was now. Todays MM is the worst incarnation of that spec.

    and surv...bring back the old spec. I didnt roll Hunter 12+ years ago to play melee.

    - - - Updated - - -



    (1) MM playstyle was better in HFC (petless), DS and ICC (with pet)

    (2) There should never be a option for no pet.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Then roll another class. A hunter should always have a pet.
    I wanted Meele hunters and I rolled a hunter because they could do both and have a pet. Even if meele wasn't part of the main rotation doesn't mean it wasn't part of the class.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    You have it wrong there...they already scrapped Surv to make another useless melee class no one asked for. BM is the only spec that is remotely playable because its the least changed spec from before.

    I laugh at people who like MM, HFC MM, DS MM, ICC MM all those playstyle were better then it was now. Todays MM is the worst incarnation of that spec.

    and surv...bring back the old spec. I didnt roll Hunter 12+ years ago to play melee.

    - - - Updated - - -



    (1) MM playstyle was better in HFC (petless), DS and ICC (with pet)

    (2) There should never be a option for no pet.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Then roll another class. A hunter should always have a pet.
    I honestly like current MM way more than HFC, I also think MM should be petless baseline, with no option for a pet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by reimmi2016 View Post
    petless is fine but current mm is dreadful, vulnerable is a colossus smash copy (lol so much for class fantasy)
    chimera shot, our most iconic ability since wrath given to bm who don't even use it... and the mobility is gutted. No. this is a terrible version of MM and i can't wake up
    MM mobility is fine especially with legendary ring+gloves which is what a lot of people use now in raids. I personally enjoy not being able to cast and move because it adds extra difficulty to playing the class.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesde View Post
    Agree.
    If you want to manage a pet, you can always choose bm.
    If you don't want to bother with pets, no options then?

    I don't mind if Blizz change PS to the flat bonus (It will solve all our issues with movement).

    But the pet, no, thx.
    The hunter class had pet as the central mechanic for 12 years. If you don't like the pet, it didn't dawn on you that maybe the class is not the right fit for you? Some people...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    The hunter class had pet as the central mechanic for 12 years. If you don't like the pet, it didn't dawn on you that maybe the class is not the right fit for you? Some people...
    It really doesn't matter what what class had, the game changes if you don't like the play style of one spec play another or mabye the clsss is not the right fit for you.

  16. #16
    current MM is so shit to play. basically stare at weakaura and cast aimed shots. i can only assume most people who like the class now didn't play much of it before legion.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by piethepiegod View Post
    It really doesn't matter what what class had, the game changes if you don't like the play style of one spec play another or mabye the clsss is not the right fit for you.
    I never said such thing, but it strikes me as a bit odd when the hunter class was literally always about having a beast pet and then suddenly not only is it ok to not have a pet (something which I would be fine with) but it's also the best choice numbers wise?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    I never said such thing, but it strikes me as a bit odd when the hunter class was literally always about having a beast pet and then suddenly not only is it ok to not have a pet (something which I would be fine with) but it's also the best choice numbers wise?
    I'd say it makes sense that it should be the best choice, mm was always a long range sniper more or less if you want the pet you can take it but a sniper having his pet run 2 miles to get to a target that should already be dead doesn't make much sense fantasy wise.

  19. #19
    Nothing is wrong with hunters. You're just not playing it correctly.

    I use to main a hunter, but switched to druid for tanking reasons. My co-gm is a master BM Hunter and puts most other classes to shame. I do love people complaining BM is terrible and yet, she tops dps, especially with people 15+ ilvls above her.

    So nothing is wrong, it's just takes time to learn and understand how to control them better now.

    I do agree that BM should have been the melee, however, she disagrees with me and skins my bear because of it. Lol

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Taukra Goundin View Post
    Nothing is wrong with hunters. You're just not playing it correctly.

    I use to main a hunter, but switched to druid for tanking reasons. My co-gm is a master BM Hunter and puts most other classes to shame. I do love people complaining BM is terrible and yet, she tops dps, especially with people 15+ ilvls above her.

    So nothing is wrong, it's just takes time to learn and understand how to control them better now.

    I do agree that BM should have been the melee, however, she disagrees with me and skins my bear because of it. Lol
    did u even read the thread. he said the specs feel like shit to play not their damage numbers. and if she is beating everyone as BM then everyone else is pretty awful in that group.

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