Hunters need a complete rework

[Ulfarr]

No, thanks. I like MM the way it is and petless.

I have to agree as well. I really like MM without the pet.

[Ettan]

If I could I would change hunters to something like this. Just flodding the specs with abilities and return every hunter spec to being a whackamole with your only downtime being the steady shots/ cobra shots you sometimes have to weave in.

For Bm, overall shift more damage into kill command/ give the spec more buttons to optimize the spec with.

-Return a cast time to cobra shot, as a focus generator.
-Change dire beast/ dire frenzy into a focus dump/ filler by giving it a focus cost.
-Rework the old focus fire + dire frenzy (add in dire beast)
-Return as a talent; Lynx rush
-Create more pet talents like Lunx rush (active; not more passive shit).
-Return the old stampede, bm only; no longer a talent.
-Return glaive toss as a talent
-Return kill shot

For MM, overall shift damage away from aimed shot to other finishers.

-Chim shot; mm only and not a talent.
-Give mm powershoot as a talent.
-Return steady shot as focus generator, castable on the move
-Return arcane shoot as a filler
-Keep vulnerable for aimed but also adding a second debuff something like exposed weakness - that increases the damage from chim shot/ kill shot,
and make it so casting aimed on exposed -> loses you the debuff and vice verca for chim/ kill shot if vulnerable is up.
-Return glaive toss
-Return kill shot

For Surv, Remake survival into the ranged spec it once was, (serpent spread multishoot; serpent sting, black arrow/explosive shot).

-> Build the spec araund dot damage
->Design on use cd(s) that increase their active dot damage.
->Reward maintaining dot uptime/ reacting to procs and debuffs.
->Allow snapshotting for the specs dots.

-> If needed to differentiate survival EVEN further from marks/bm; remove any passive focus regen + focus generating abilities from survival and make the dot damage done be the focus regen for the spec.

->If there is a large enough demand for it (as in alot more players start maining survival befoure legion ends); Make a fourth spec out of current the survival -> just call them Tracker or something.

-Utility as a base (not talent) for all 3 specs;
Return 2 stack disengage and 2 stack deterrence; lose turtle.
Return aspect of the cheetah
Return explosive trap (knockback)
Return master's call
Return pet abilities; stuns/slows/dissorient/disarm/root/petrify + make up new abilities for mechanical + other new pet families that lack any ability.

[Yakibob]

If I could I would change hunters to something like this. Just flodding the specs with abilities and return every hunter spec to being a whackamole with your only downtime being the steady shots/ cobra shots you sometimes have to weave in.

For Bm, overall shift more damage into kill command/ give the spec more buttons to optimize the spec with.

-Return a cast time to cobra shot, as a focus generator.
-Change dire beast/ dire frenzy into a focus dump/ filler by giving it a focus cost.
-Rework the old focus fire + dire frenzy (add in dire beast)
-Return as a talent; Lynx rush
-Create more pet talents like Lunx rush (active; not more passive shit).
-Return the old stampede, bm only; no longer a talent.
-Return glaive toss as a talent
-Return kill shot



-Utility as a base (not talent) for all 3 specs;
Return 2 stack disengage and 2 stack deterrence; lose turtle.
Return aspect of the cheetah
Return explosive trap (knockback)
Return master's call
Return pet abilities; stuns/slows/dissorient/disarm/root/petrify + make up new abilities for mechanical + other new pet families that lack any ability.

Yes please. MoP BM hunter was great fun!

[FAILoZOFF]

No, thanks. I like MM the way it is and petless.

And that's your right to like it, just as it is anyone's right to like some other "designs", then again there is probably way more people not quite happy about current state of hunters than those happy with them.
Problem with petless MM is about that same as locks without demon, once you adjust everything and allow it to work, chances are (quite high at that...) that people choosing the pet will end up with inferior playstyle. If you'd read what I wrote you could see for instance my ideas regarding the pet for MM. One of which was to make pet as MMs autoattack, petless MM would still keep their autoshot, because as soon as you slap plain +xx% overall damage, it will either be a "go to" or suboptimal way of playing (because of how the spec scales, by its design, ie. MMs pet do not scale very well)
BTW what did you think when you rolled a PET CLASS? Some of us very much liked the idea of MM with pet, problem now is to make that met not suck, and not "disappear" as if it never existed. Even now when petless MM is at the top, the class/spec feels super awkward with all the useless pet abilities and such.

[Slicer299]

Yes to the rework, but absolutely NO to keeping Melee in any way. And a HELL NO to making that melee more powerful. People don't roll a Hunter to play melee. The melee people who tried it out are not Hunter life mains, and therefore their opinion on it is irrelavent. I've been playing a Hunter since Wrath, and will never change. I've already stopped playing, and stopped subbing, because the next tier will continue the destruction of the BM spec.

T21 has great set bonuses during the first patch or two on the PTR, then they gutted it and are giving use the worst set bonuses in the history of the game. I also won't touch MM until the broken vulnerable mechanic is removed. I put up with MM through most of EN, but no longer. The current zoo build for BM is amazing. Being a Hunter main I love having a half dozen pets out at once. But using that build going forward will require using T19 2pc for a 3rd tier in a row. And no the answer to that is NOT nerfing the T19 set bonus. It's called giving us new bonuses that don't suck.

[Goondicker]

I have to agree. Hunter feels like complete dogshit.

I've played hunter almost exclusively, and always as a main, for a decade... I completely rerolled in Legion. It makes me sad.

I do agree with one counter point being made: I enjoy petless gameplay and I think there should be an option to keep that for at least one spec.

[FAILoZOFF]

Nothing is wrong with hunters. You're just not playing it correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

I use to main a hunter, but switched to druid for tanking reasons. My co-gm is a master BM Hunter and puts most other classes to shame. I do love people complaining BM is terrible and yet, she tops dps, especially with people 15+ ilvls above her.

This only means you are all awful at this game then, first of all BM should not "top meters" and the only reason for why it might be possible is just for the fact that BM is braindead AI spec with little to no skill required. Thats a fact and always been this way. That's ok on its own, but don't make it sound like an achievement, because it's not. My brother rerolled to BM some time ago, and he did this so he can have an easy time watching a TV while he raids but doesn't go and brag for for awesome player he is.

So nothing is wrong, it's just takes time to learn and understand how to control them better now.

Yeah ok. Tho might take some time before I learn, how to send pet and spam these 3 or 4 skills, I am just a simple MAN.

I do agree that BM should have been the melee, however, she disagrees with me and skins my bear because of it. Lol

In that case she shouldn't be too afraid of moving to melee, but rather fear that blizz will scrap the idea of AI spec as it is, and chances are bit higher here, she should be very afraid.
;]

[Queen of Hamsters]

Survival needs a complete rework, in returning it to what it was in MoP...

BM and MM need tweaks and fixes to their gameplay, but a complete and utter rework? Nah.

Also, it's always funny when people brand specs as "braindead", yet 95+ percentile performance with specs is rare as ever.

[munkeyinorbit]

I wanted Meele hunters and I rolled a hunter because they could do both and have a pet. Even if meele wasn't part of the main rotation doesn't mean it wasn't part of the class.

Then you are wrong. Hunter should never have been melee and was never melee.

[Trapstarz]

BM should not be touched, this spec is necessary for the casual gril gamers on twitch and for MoP survival player.

MM should be reversed back to HFC gameplay with maybe even more way to differenciate actual good player and dogshit casual.

Keep surv the way it is, having a hard spec to manage (mecanicaly and not damage wise) is goodfor the game and has his niche of hardcore player.

+ a 4th spec that basicaly is Cata surv and make sure it's not braindead as MoP and WoD surv. If it become a dot spec makes it actually a hard spec to pull number with like castable dots and with dots and wounds explosion. It should be a very steady spec that has a lot of choice to make in order to rotate efficiently and isn't just press Explosiv when it procs (hence make Exploshot like Cata back).

[Tack980]

current MM is so shit to play. basically stare at weakaura and cast aimed shots. i can only assume most people who like the class now didn't play much of it before legion.

I's way better now then in HFC in my opinion. You had 3 buttons, chimera, on cooldown, aimshot, when you had focus, and arcane when you needed focus. literally nothing but face roll and those 3 buttons did stupid amounts of damage for some reason. Now marksman isn't perfect ( not by a long shot) but at least there's some management .

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Then you are wrong. Hunter should never have been melee and was never melee.

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Wing_Clip

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Raptor_Strike

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Mongoose_Bite

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Counterattack

the facts disagree with you. survival was a melee range hybrid sure the melee wasn't optimal for dps but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.

[threads]

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Wing_Clip

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Raptor_Strike

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Mongoose_Bite

http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Counterattack

the facts disagree with you. survival was a melee range hybrid sure the melee wasn't optimal for dps but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.

nobody played that shitty version of survival. surv was only popular when they added black arrow and explosive where it killed MM for cata and mop.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

nobody played that shitty version of survival. surv was only popular when they added black arrow and explosive where it killed MM for cata and mop.

so no one played it from classic to cata? i guess i should tell all the people i know including my self they never did it.

[Spiral Mage]

Any time I see another Hunter in a dungeon, I'm just boggled that anyone could actually *like* any of the available play choices. I get that obviously some people do like them but I just cannot for the life of me understand how or why. I also assume some of them just have been playing their Hunter forever, and just don't have any other classes to swap to.

Survival is .. not a bad spec to play.
It's just a horrid idea. Melee Hunter? Who wanted that? No one.
The spec plays the best out of any of the Hunter specs, there's no question.
But there's no reason for a Hunter to be melee. There's lots of other melee choices, good ones.
Plenty of other melee specs are fun to play. We didn't need this too.

OP: Everyone always says "It's easy to code this,"
but the sheer fact you said "I'm pretty sure it is .." means you don't code. In reality, things are seldom easy to code, especially in a game as large as WoW, where there are so many variables, ref'-links to other skills, etc. It can take a lot of time to make even the simplest changes due to that. You have to go through every variable, every class code, and make sure it's all working right without any bugs or weird, unintended behavior.

But Hunters desperately need help.
SV is "fun" in the way most specs are in Legion.
That's most specs getting F'd pretty hard in Legion. Though a few got better, but most got worse.
And MM and BM are both completely horrible.

My G/F abandoned her Hunter entirely and main's her Warlock and Rogue now.
I don't even see a point in leveling my Hunter the rest of the way, other than to get ready to level him again for the next expac. I'll probably level Survival due to the easy of AOE, and momentum it has in combat. But I don't like it. I just know it makes leveling easy.

I had a long time Hunter friend return to the game, log on his Hunter, and he IM's me and goes: "wtf did they do to hunter? this is terrible" And began leveling his Warlock, heh. Interesting he swapped to the same class as my G/F.

But that's been the reaction mostly in my experience. Abandon the class until BLIZ does something major.

[threads]

so no one played it from classic to cata? i guess i should tell all the people i know including my self they never did it.

no i said it was pretty much a dead spec until wrath when it got explosive shot. cata and mop were the peak of the spec. then for some reason blizzard thought it was a good idea to go back to a failed idea and no surprise the spec is dead again.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

no i said it was pretty much a dead spec until wrath when it got explosive shot. cata and mop were the peak of the spec. then for some reason blizzard thought it was a good idea to go back to a failed idea and no surprise the spec is dead again.

funny cause i would comply disagree cata-wod was the worse period for hunters if you ask me. i dropped hunter after cata going back to try it in both mop and wod and found it horrible classic-wrath were the best period for hunters survival or any spec by far and legion was a big improvement over what we had even if it isn't perfect. i think hunters were a dead class for me from cata-wod as you think survival was a dead spec.

[Aesde]

Then roll another class. A hunter should always have a pet.

Your knowledge about WOW is extraordinarily awful - there is no other class with archer class fantasy.
Why do MM need the pet? To have zero interaction with it again? To be bad parody on BM?
So alluring.

Guys like you already have destroyed SV with mindless demands "I want the melee hunter".

Hope Blizz don't listen you again anymore.

[Bepples]

funny cause i would comply disagree cata-wod was the worse period for hunters if you ask me. i dropped hunter after cata going back to try it in both mop and wod and found it horrible classic-wrath were the best period for hunters survival or any spec by far and legion was a big improvement over what we had even if it isn't perfect. i think hunters were a dead class for me from cata-wod as you think survival was a dead spec.

Ok, but be aware that that's you're personal perspective and it's contrary to just about every other Hunter given that Hunters reached peak popularity in Cata-WoD.

You're also clearly confused about the tenure of melee Hunters because Hunters most certainly did not stop being melee "at Cata". All Hunter specs had melee capabilities from Vanilla-MoP, but moreso before Cata than afterwards. Survival had several talents that buffed melee abilities plus a couple unique melee abilities of its own. It still preferred ranged weapons at all times, even before 1.7. After 1.7, it was reworked to be much more ranged focused. I don't believe you're being honest when you say you picked a Hunter in Vanilla with the intent of playing a melee class. The goal was always to get to ranged and stay in ranged. The melee only existed because you couldn't use ranged weapons from within 8 yards, which was always a silly limitation. Once that limitation was g one, there was no reason to keep the melee abilities around other than inane nostalgia, which seems to be your platform here.

[Mavick]

Seriously, linking melee abilities from vanilla-whatever using the argument of "lol range/melee hybrid" as if that's a serious conversation topic is just asinine. Sure, they had melee abilities. To insinuate those were used over ranged given the choice is a complete show of disrespect to the class. There was a REASON those abilities were removed after a few expansions, afterall.