Blizzard needs to no longer balance Mythic for Method.

[FrostyK]

Out of curiosity, how do Blizz "designed and balance" a mythic raid around Method?

Most guild would have achieved the ilvl that Method had on their world first. Or even higher. A lot of nerfs had been put in place. Yet you still don't see these guilds killing M KJ. In fact I know a lot of Heroic guilds on my realm that were H8/9 and STILL on H8/9 after crucible was released.

Blizz don't balance around Method. They don't balance at all. They just plain suck at it. Method merely became their Live playtesters for free. How do you balance when it doesn't matter if you're ilvl 920 or 950, the raid mechanic one shot you anyway should you fail the mechanic. After a series nerfs, there isn't really an encounter in M ToS that are HARD dps check.

[shaunika123]

How about not screwing hundreds of thousands of players that do mythic content because 20 players who raid 2x-3x more than any other top 10 guild in the world want to the content to cater specifically to their guild. And instead release a well balanced raid in the first place which they have done in the past, and if a guild that raids 12 hours finds it 'too easy' than they can deal with it.

People need to realize this is not natural, ruining the experience of hundreds of thousands of players who all pay subs too and don't want their time wasted on encounters badly designed on purpose to suit 20-30 people who raid unnaturally long hours on purpose to prevent competing with any other guild for world first.

It is not fair for top10 guilds in the world.
This is not natural.
This should not be encouraged.

first of all thanks for thoughtfully reading through my post before jumping to any fast conclusions and attacking a point i didnt even make

second of all, if you think method is world first because they raid more than others, then your opinion literally doesnt matter, because you're clueless about it(which isnt an issue, but then dont make blanket statements about it)

consistent nerfs as well as gear scaling are more than enough to lower boss difficulty for the appropriate people once they get there

EXCEPT for a few outliers (which avatar Kj are, dont get me wrong, but basing a whole game on 2 bosses is just wrong)

why not just have your cake and eat it too instead of just eating it.

if you put out bosses tuned for top 10 guilds, then nerf them when the race is basically over, then the guilds that werent there anyway wont even notice it

so you make sufficently challenging content for everyone

if every mythic race was over in a day, then people would also slowly stop raiding because there's no challenge in it.

nobody wants another emerald nightmare

the raid mechanic one shot you anyway should you fail the mechanic. .

uhm, how exactly is that a bad thing?

punishing raid mechanics are only a problem if the fight also has a super tight dps check, otherwise you can freely do the mechanic since the boss wil drop anyway (which is basically the state at which avatar and Kj are at atm)

[ls-]

TBF, it's better when they makes bosses hard and then nerf them. Otherwise Bill will end up in a situation where raiding is perceived as joke, even if it's hard for everyone, but Method and Exorsus, it'll be seen as such just because Top2's wipe count wasn't that big or it's cleared too fast.

Such perception is really bad for a game that's famous for its PvE content.

[Deleted]

Speak for yourself.

If you can't cut it in Mythic, go raid heroic. Only 3% of the WoW population, give or take a %, actually raids Mythic, changing the difficulty wouldn't change that number much, it would just make the top end have less to do, and make a few more heroic raid guilds think they're mythic guilds. Legion has been pretty fantastic for PvE, just not so much for Mythic raiding. Again though, we're such a small percentage of the population why would they ever cater to us? I'm amazed we get the things that we do.

Finally a smart answer !

[Myztikrice]

They are balancing around Titanforge, not Method

[Socialhealer]

They are balancing around Titanforge, not Method

and crucible which wasn't around when the raid released, there was still a huge lack of kills without this.

[Gaidax]

Blizz don't balance around Method. They don't balance at all. They just plain suck at it. Method merely became their Live playtesters for free. How do you balance when it doesn't matter if you're ilvl 920 or 950, the raid mechanic one shot you anyway should you fail the mechanic. After a series nerfs, there isn't really an encounter M ToS that are HARD dps check.

I completely disagree with this statement, if you take such encounter like Mythic Mistress it shows very well just how good Blizzard is at creating encounters - it is engaging with a lot of various mechanics and phases, it is difficult, but doable - not a crazy wall and not falling over.

You don't make complex encounters like that when you suck - it was clearly carefully tuned and it delivers.

And no it does not mean Blizz are infalliable, they do undertune or overtune - namely Xavius and Avatar being polar opposites there. But most of the encounters are really well done and the rest are often fixed pretty fast anyway.

[shaunika123]

I completely disagree with this statement, if you take such encounter like Mythic Mistress it shows very well just how good Blizzard is at creating encounters - it is engaging with a lot of various mechanics and phases, it is difficult, but doable - not a crazy wall and not falling over.

You don't make complex encounters like that when you suck - it was clearly carefully tuned and it delivers.

And no it does not mean Blizz are infalliable, they do undertune or overtune - namely Xavius and Avatar being polar opposites there. But most of the encounters are really well done and the rest are often fixed pretty fast anyway.

mistress is probably the most horrible fight out of all of ToS, because dropping the fish is tied to %hp, which is so counter intuitive, because the more dps you do, the less dps you do.

then again, that's maybe my inner dps whore speaking, but i hate fights that basically make it impossible to do good dps without making others do less on purpose

i did more dps on mistress in 7.2.5 then i do now and im 8ilvls above what i was then

[exjay]

I forget which interview it was, but one of the devs had stated that they do tune the bosses for top10 guilds like method. Their internal raid testers use to be high level raiders so I don't see encounters becoming any easier.

[Xjev]

Its Method's problem they tried to do it first few feeks, end boss of Mythic raids are designed to go down after 2 3 months of gearing.

[Gaidax]

mistress is probably the most horrible fight out of all of ToS, because dropping the fish is tied to %hp, which is so counter intuitive, because the more dps you do, the more difficult it is.

The more DPS you do the easier it is all you need to do is slightly change your strategy and not try to religiously copy paste what you seen on youtube or twitch. Finally if you are hellbent on doing that in a specific way you can always do a simple thing... stop dps and wait for good opportunity to drop fish for everyone.

When our Raid Leader calls stop DPS, we put our e-peen back in our pants and stop DPS, so we transition or trigger mechanic when it's a good time to do so and not just bum rush into 50 things together and get owned. We did it on Mistress at some specific point.

As a whole, Mistress with more DPS is significantly easier because you can finish the fight with more people dead instead of enraging. Mistress does not have any mechanics that wipe raid if one guy fails it (except for maybe dropping fish in melee which is simply retarded really), so more DPS means you can afford more deaths and it makes it "easy" really.

Besides the hardest part of it is P3 and fish is FFA personal responsibility there and you can drop it super easy there, on the other hand more DPS allows to finish that part faster and allows to have more dead people. Don't see how you think DPS makes Mistress harder, seriously.

[FrostyK]

I completely disagree with this statement, if you take such encounter like Mythic Mistress it shows very well just how good Blizzard is at creating encounters - it is engaging with a lot of various mechanics and phases, it is difficult, but doable - not a crazy wall and not falling over.

You don't make complex encounters like that when you suck - it was clearly carefully tuned and it delivers.

And no it does not mean Blizz are infalliable, they do undertune or overtune - namely Xavius and Avatar being polar opposites there. But most of the encounters are really well done and the rest are often fixed pretty fast anyway.

Not downplaying Blizzard but I agree they get some encounters right, and is very enjoyable. I love mythic Gul dan. But looking from Blizzard extreme "balancing" from M Xavius to M Fallen Avatar.... it really does appear to me that they just pluck in numbers that they feel is balanced, see how guilds fares. Sometime they nail it right, in which the fight is not only challenging but enjoyable. And sometime they miss, making the encounter become really frustrating. Then they start nerfing once they get a feedbacks and data from top guild who are progressing.

Not to say they don't put in the effort or learn from their mistakes, I do hear from PTR testing that Antorus is great. Hope it doesn't disappoint.

[Deleted]

blizzard wants people to spend as much time as possible online (hence all the possible grinds in legion)

thats also why they dont care about more subs... as long as the smaller amount of subs spent more time in the game.

so making content not beatable with getting better gear and im not even talking about that gear is kind of irrelevant in Legion (since all the content gets buffed too. mythic+ and new raids which are ofc. harder).

and also not tuning the raid for the middle of the pack is all in favor for blizzard.

tldr: "its working as intended"

[Gaidax]

blizzard wants people to spend as much time as possible online (hence all the possible grinds in legion)

thats also why they dont care about more subs... as long as the smaller amount of subs spent more time in the game.

so making content not beatable with getting better gear and im not even talking about that gear is kind of irrelevant in Legion (since all the content gets buffed too. mythic+ and new raids which are ofc. harder).

and also not tuning the raid for the middle of the pack is all in favor for blizzard.

tldr: "its working as intended"

Yes it's all a giant conspiracy there, man.

I am sure when they are tuning raids that's exactly what they have in mind... not.

[Deleted]

Yes it's all a giant conspiracy there, man.

eh... no? its just basic modern bussiness... keep the shareholders happy.



you should ask yourself "do we care if people smash their heads against a brick wall?" no they dont as long as MAUs and time spent in-game are stable.

but yeah... ignore that legion is a giant grindfest... and "all the content" is actually always the same... just with changing backrounds and for instances changed powerlevels / itemlevels.

[Gaidax]

eh... no? its just basic modern bussiness... keep the shareholders happy.

You know what will keep shareholders happy? Game being fun, because game being fun means more subs and more purchases.

If you think they have this "delaying tactic" for bloody mythic raid tuning as any sort of priority out of concern for shareholders happiness, then you are not very bright. I am not even talking about how it affects what... couple % of the playerbase for whom Mythic is relevant, that couple % that so much love Twitch, YouTube and would expose any sort of shady shit there before the whole patch even hits?

Mythic tuning is done for mythic players who love challenge, that's all. If you want tourist raider mode - you have Heroic which was pugged right and left frikkin' second month in.

[Deleted]

You know what will keep shareholders happy? Game being fun, because game being fun means more subs and more purchases.

If you think they have this "delaying tactic" for bloody mythic raid tuning as any sort of priority out of concern for shareholders happiness, then you are not very bright. I am not even talking about how it affects what... couple % of the playerbase for whom Mythic is relevant, that couple % that so much love Twitch, YouTube and would expose any sort of shady shit there before the whole patch even hits?

Mythic tuning is done for mythic players who love challenge, that's all. If you want tourist raider mode - you have Heroic which was pugged right and left frikkin' second month in.

ofc they dont want mythic to be "broken" but in the end they dont even care. and if you really think shareholders care for happy players.. you are wrong... they care for money... and less people paying more money still makes the run...

they dont care for millions of subs when they can earn double that with just a sold wowtoken.

means if tuning is out of hand (which all of legion was the case with crazy mid-tier tuning undertuning overtuning etc.) its not that important for blizzard anymore. do they want content to be done in one week? hell no.. so why tune it?

and since you need to attack me... i dont think you can comprehend what really matters for the industry today.

[Gaidax]

Heck, the whole previous expansion just shows how this "shareholders" talk is just bullshit. In WoD you could not login at all and only show up for raids and it was fine, because there really was nothing useful to do, even for casual players.

What happened to this delay everyone with grinds for shareholders sake plan there? It was not "basic modern business" time yet? In short you are talking out of your ass, bigjason.

The "grind" we have now happened as a direct result of players quitting in droves, because there was literally nothing to do in WoD outside raids, which was a whole what, 1 year ago and a bit?

[ls-]

You know what will keep shareholders happy? Game being fun, because game being fun means more subs and more purchases.

If you think they have this "delaying tactic" for bloody mythic raid tuning as any sort of priority out of concern for shareholders happiness, then you are not very bright. I am not even talking about how it affects what... couple % of the playerbase for whom Mythic is relevant, that couple % that so much love Twitch, YouTube and would expose any sort of shady shit there before the whole patch even hits?

Mythic tuning is done for mythic players who love challenge, that's all. If you want tourist raider mode - you have Heroic which was pugged right and left frikkin' second month in.

Although I do agree that game being fun = more people playing and thus paying, but this metric is irrelevant to shareholders unless they themselves actually play it

I agree w/ everything else though, making game harder to milk very few % of people who raid M for more profit is laughable.

[Umbrex]

i quit the game because i burned out on those last 2 bosses and blizzard obviously tuning the game for exorsus and method ...it was beyond ridiculous to progress pre-nerfs