View Poll Results: WoD or Legion hunter better?

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  • WoD

    292 75.84%
  • Legion

    93 24.16%
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  1. #121
    Can anyone actually find out on a mythic Brackenspore a kill time and how many CS's were used during for any Hunter? I'm curious about something and unable to find ignorant on warcraftlogs anywhere.
    Tried finding it, but not super familiar with accessing everything or if it's just not showing because of how long ago it was.

  2. #122
    Nirv, i honestly don’t see how if you have been playing a hunter since 2006 you could be so completely clueless as to the myriad of nerfs hunters recieved with the Legion class changes. Like honestly there’s just no way to refute it. I won’t even bother responding to your post anymore because it’s already been pointed out that you are flat out wrong but you just won’t see it. I know in your head this means you “won” and think I’m too scared to get on Discord and debate it but the simple fact is there is absolutely nothing to debate. I wish you all the best in your future speed runs and youtube channel

  3. #123
    Here's what I don't understand about the debate with Nirv, Fpic, and you...what are you jusging everything off of? Are you just talking endgame (raids and dungeons) or are you talking about everything?
    If we are talking everything, then yes, Hunters can be considered faster as far as movement goes with everything available (professions, consumables, etc) to them. If we are talking about raids and dungeons, then I am inclined to agree with Fpic and you. Now, with raids and dungeons, it's a little harder to quantify. As Fpic stated, we had a glyphed Cheetah that would prevent stun; however, on any steady pulsing AoE fight or in a solo'ing instance, it's not as valuable as it's going to get turned off and be useless. I do give the edge to current standing content that WoD was faster with Cheetah.
    As far as soloing content, that's also slightly tough to quantify. Sure, you can say we have nerfs that lowered this, but when you consider the things we got it's again not so cut and dry. As Fpic said, we lost things like Spirit Bond, Distract Shot, Mend Pet, unlimited MD to pet; but, we also gained 40% damage reduction on pet for duration of MD, Play Dead (instant threat drop for pet), and legendaries. Just between things like a turtle's shell ability, Play Dead, FD, MD damage reduction, Mend Pet, Posthaste, and Turtle, you can kite and ping pong the boss around. That's without legendary additions. Tack on Roots and Prydaz, and you gain a lot of survivability with those things. Now, I get it if you don't want to include things like legos, but we are comparing "current then vs current now," which means you have to consider everything available at the time.
    For the last point, I'm not really sure how to quantify downtime vs pacing/actions per minute without access to logs showing total cast times. Explaining as best I can, downtime does not necessarily mean slower paced or less done overall. Just a for instance, let's say CS was cast 50 times over a 5 minute fight and you have it equaling the GCD (1.0 seconds). Even with a 100% uptime during the fight, that's 50 casts at 1 second a piece for 50 seconds of doing nothing other than casting an ability. Looking at the flip side, as Fpic pointed out, with optimal gear a current BM Hunter has roughly 10% downtime. Over 5 minutes, 60 seconds a minute, equaling 300 seconds overall, a 10% downtime is 30 seconds of doing nothing. You actually have more actions per minute with current Legion BM than you did in WoD, even though you have more uptime as any casted ability equates "doing something." Obviously, the amount of CS's cast can be more or less and those numbers are made up as an example, but something that should be considered when comparing the 2.
    Slight alternative comparison, Legion BM vs Legion MM. On a 100% standstill fight lasting 2 minutes, a MM Hunter with 100% uptime is foreseeable to have less actions per minute than BM simply because even with 100% uptime, there are 1.7-2.5 seconds used to cast AiS and Windburst, even though BM has downtime.
    Downtime is quantified as "not doing anything," (obviously) and a casted ability counts as doing something; however, a Mage that casts over 10 seconds a 1.5 second frostbolt means they get 7 casts vs a BM Hunter that also gets 7 casts, even though they have downtime. A MM Hunter with 2 second AiS's would only get 5 casts off, while BM still maintains 7. Even with downtime, BM still has more actions per minute and a slightly faster playstyle.

  4. #124
    I like both, but WoD was better.

  5. #125
    The Lightbringer DeicideUH's Avatar
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    I like Survival in Legion (because it's different, and because I never cared for Survival before). And I loved MM in WoD, because it was the only time the spec felt like a real marksman.

    IMO, they need to improve Survival a bit, and bring more of the old MM, but now with some old (ranged) Survival skills as talents, so people can emulate that playstyle if they so choose.
    Not a native english speaker, so pardon my typos and grammar errors.

  6. #126
    Yup, Eapoe is right. We have so many tools despite the removal of many abilities from ALL CLASSES. Don't forget, the purging happened with all classes--not just hunter. As much as I hate having utility taken away from us, I'm still having a lot of fun. NOBODY is more bitter than I am about how Blizzard handles the development of this game. If you don't believe me, some guy on these very forums interviewed me recently and put it on youtube (just search Interview with Painbow). Do I sound pissed in that interview? Yup.

    But I could make a youtube video right now showing just how awesome hunters are for ALL content -- even raiding and mythic+. For example, the value of having disengage on Helya in Maw of Souls is amazing. As a hunter, you will NEVER get hit with Corrupted Bellow if you're good at disengaging and don't land in a hole. Speaking of those holes in the ship on that fight, did you know tossing a flare on the ground will light those holes up? I've had lots of group members thank me for that.

    Again, I will fight to the DEATH on discord if any other class wants to step up to the plate. Hunters are the best class in the game--period.

  7. #127
    If they would bring back WoD Highmaul Survival Hunter (Or HFC MM with 4-set), i would reroll back to hunter without ever looking back!
    Best iterations of the 2 specs in my opinion.

  8. #128
    I mainly played Survival in MoP and Wod so I obviously prefer those version over Legion since it doesnt have the spec I played.

  9. #129
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by gushDH View Post
    Overall I don't like any changes. BM is only about pets and removes all the shooting, MM is only about shooting and removes pets, survival is horrible in every way in my opinion. What do you think?
    WoD MM with 4p HFC and class trinket was one of my top 3 favorite specs of all time honestly. It's right up there with 4p HFC+class trinket frost mage, and CB/Nem Havoc DH
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  10. #130
    I prefered Hunter at the end of Vanilla.

    It all went down hill with the change from mana to focus, from aimed shot and multi shot hitting like trucks to steady shot and steady dmg.

    I liked the burst Hunter had back then, tracking your autoshots to put aimed shot in between autoshots, even the feign death and drink to regen mana in fights. The overall dmg numbers could have been better in comparison to fire mages later but yeah I liked it.

    I remember I was 10th in damage in t2 gear and the quest bow on a top 10 world Loatheb kill ahead of the hunters in t3 and with xbows.
    Last edited by quizzlemanizzle; 2017-12-06 at 04:58 PM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by BeerWolf View Post
    Survival in Legion is awesome!

    and was not needed. instead of re-working surv into melee the current melee surv spec playstyle should of been a demon hunter tree.

  12. #132
    MoP Surv. Best spec ever

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    and was not needed. instead of re-working surv into melee the current melee surv spec playstyle should of been a demon hunter tree.
    no, demonhunter is fine with 2 specs

    the survival hunter theme simply should be removed and spread over the other 2 specs, hunter does not need 3 dmg specs.

  14. #134
    MoP hunter or get the fuck out.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2017 - that's two-zero-one-seven, as in the 21st Century - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    For a lot of reasons, I don't like the various changes they've made to hunter in Legion.

    2.) Beast Mastery's focus on a large number of beasts that the hunter did not choose has increased, while I've always felt like the spec was about bonding strongly with a single, or a few, chosen companions, and fighting using the powerful bond between hunter and pet- not summoning random beasts from the wild, and having a specific beast forced upon us that is not one of out longterm companions. I really liked the give-and-take of Focus Fire, where power cycled between hunter and pet and they both empowered the other.
    So much this. BM was in such a good place during MoP and you described exactly how i want bm to be like. The bond between pet and hunter empowering each other. Giving the sense of loyalty your pet has to you that it would do anything to protect you.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by quizzlemanizzle View Post
    no, demonhunter is fine with 2 specs

    the survival hunter theme simply should be removed and spread over the other 2 specs, hunter does not need 3 dmg specs.
    We under no circumstances should have less options on how to play. Introducing a class with 2 specs was a piss poor decision. The time that went into reworking a range spec into melee that the community as a whole was not asking for could of went into a third spec for DH.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    We under no circumstances should have less options on how to play. Introducing a class with 2 specs was a piss poor decision. The time that went into reworking a range spec into melee that the community as a whole was not asking for could of went into a third spec for DH.
    Exactly - instead of making one less ranged spec they could have made one more for DH.

  18. #138
    Bloodsail Admiral HeiAggra's Avatar
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    Gameplay wise WOD all the way, one of the best moments for Hunters.
    As soon the pre exp patch camed i benched my hunter unti this day.
    And it was my first ever char since classic wow
    PS: I like the new Survival if the make some changes on the rotation.

  19. #139
    Hunter went from one of my favorite classes to least favorite classes over the last few years.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    We under no circumstances should have less options on how to play. Introducing a class with 2 specs was a piss poor decision. The time that went into reworking a range spec into melee that the community as a whole was not asking for could of went into a third spec for DH.
    The problem with demon hunters is there was no theme for a 3rd spec even if they didn’t change survival demon hunters still wouldn’t have had a 3rd spec as what we did get with survival wouldn’t have made sense on a demon hunter.

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