Difficulty/Complexity

[Protean]

A discussion with a guild mate is the basis of my question.

If you could swing a magic wand and have it your way, which would you choose?

I think classes don't need complexity, as long as the bosses are interesting. Adding complexity to the class isn't necessary for interesting encounters, but it does add to repeating encounters with different classes.

[netherflame]

Remove the ability of DBM, Raid Tools, WA, etc to track things so well. /thread

[Socialhealer]

i'd prefer harder raid mechanics ALL classes can deal with not just immunties like ToS, and blizzard need to consider how much movement affects classes, some are not hindered at all and some are completely crippled, i don't see how moving half the encounter is "difficulty" losing half my casts or die isn't much of a choice and you can't really plan to have instants or use mobility because sometimes it just goes on too long.

[Protean]

Remove the ability of DBM, Raid Tools, WA, etc to track things so well. /thread

I honestly wouldn't mind if they broke all these addons.

It feels cheap to beat a boss because of having an addon that tells you where to go and what to do.


Just let me keep non-dynamic TellMeWhen. I'm || this close to being able to completely remove my action bars from sight.

[Myztikrice]

They would have to completely redesign their fight mechanic philosophy if they got rid of WA or other raid tools. They are necessary to track certain things Blizzard is still half-assing with their visuals/cues.

[kamuimac]

A discussion with a guild mate is the basis of my question.

If you could swing a magic wand and have it your way, which would you choose?

I think classes don't need complexity, as long as the bosses are interesting. Adding complexity to the class isn't necessary for interesting encounters, but it does add to repeating encounters with different classes.

remove dbm/ weakuaras / recounts / logs etc and 3/4 of people will be unable to clear HC - this would bring complexity and difficulty back to game.

sadly devs are to big of pussies to do whats nessesary.

[Deleted]

I would prefer harder spec mechanics than raid difficulty because when the spec is really simple easy content looses a lot of appeal since there isn't much to be optimized.

[Deleted]

I feel harder class mechanics. Back when they removed snapshotting of DoTs they really pushed dpsing towards a easier style. WoD and their removal of spells also helped with this.

[Leih]

remove dbm/ weakuaras / recounts / logs etc and 3/4 of people will be unable to clear HC - this would bring complexity and difficulty back to game.

Well yeah cause the basic UI sucks ass and I'd rather play a game with a decent UI if they removed the addons that make it not suck.

If they remove addons they damn sure better do a full rework of the base UI.

Fuck looking to the top right of my screen just to see the remaining timers on my procs or debuffs.

[Deleted]

I think classes don't need complexity, as long as the bosses are interesting. Adding complexity to the class isn't necessary for interesting encounters, but it does add to repeating encounters with different classes.

Wrong. Boss ability bloat means that you don't learn a spec and adjust your knowledge as it gets changed. You learn every boss instead. Also, removing the difficulty from the character you play and transferring it to an NPC that is fought by a group decreases your ability to stand up to the challenge.
Best example: Any level KJ and, say, Mythic Maiden. You can be the best in the world, but it doesn't mean you won't get wiped by someone else easily and unavoidably.

[Lightbull]

I'm kinda neutral on the topic, but I'll give my 2 cents:

Right now, I don't think we could get any easier in terms of class/spec gameplay without causing problems with how interesting the rotations are. So if we stuck to easier class mechanics, what we have right now is fine. I'm enjoying how easy the classes are to just pick up and play.

On the other hand, the raids are pretty complex. One of the reasons I don't like raiding is because I don't want to read a big article or memorize the mechanics required for all 9-13 fights in a raid tier just to be able to come to a raid. Having harder classes and easier raid mechanics would make it easier for casual players to get their feet wet without feeling overwhelmed.

[Constraint]

I'd rather have more simpler but more punishing raid mechanics - I don't want to have to read a fucking book for half an hour to just get my head around half of the mechanics. And at the same time I wish almost every class wasn't able to be mastered in a 5-minute training dummy session..

[gushDH]

Remove the ability of DBM, Raid Tools, WA, etc to track things so well. /thread

There would be applications for mobile phones, or 3rd party computer applications to track them. AFAIK there are already such things for the Final Fantasy mmo, so I don't think there would be a reason not to make them for wow as well.

On topic, Although superficially I think that a semi complex class is a good balance, I found myself having the most fun when I played my BM hunter at mythic raids. Where I could laser focus on the tactics and nail them, with thinking of my rotation on the background.

Same thing happens with cuphead as well. Cuphead is pretty much only boss fights, and if you look at it like such, the bosses have some tough mechanics, but the rotation is just keeping a button pressed, aiming and parrying some stuff. Pretty simple, yet the game is quite enjoyable to me, having the last 2 bosses left now.

[Millyraynge]

A lot of people are already completely overwhelmed, if WA is not working properly. Even the easiest mechanics like to dodge a void zone overwhelms people without a 10*10inch WA icon and a warning sound. And this problem happend not only by the plebs but also by players inside the top 100 guild bracket.

The only way to explain this circumstance is, that these players are distracted by other things. Imo in the most cases by the dps/hps rotation. The majority of the specs are hard enough to play, especially at its best, that the most people were not able to play them on any standard level anymore without any sort of support. Tracking all the timers/procs/priorities of your rotation besides complexe mythic raid mechanics without any sort of technical help wouldnt work at current encounter complexity level and degree of pre-nerfed tuning.

[Gaidax]

I think current situation is fine overall, specs are engaging enough without being overwhelmingly complex and raids have a ton of mechanics, but we got the tools to handle it, so this makes for some spectacular complex encounters which are doable.

My only complaint is immunity soak fad which seems to start getting out of hand, there needs to be some moderation.

[durrtygoodz]

remove dbm/ weakuaras / recounts / logs etc and 3/4 of people will be unable to clear HC - this would bring complexity and difficulty back to game.

sadly devs are to big of pussies to do whats nessesary.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ar...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Raqubor]

Break the addons, problem fixed.

[durrtygoodz]

Break the addons, problem fixed.

Forcing me to squint to at the top right hand corner of my 27 inch monitor to look at rapidly changing icons is not real difficulty.

[Raqubor]

Forcing me to squint to at the top right hand corner of my 27 inch monitor to look at rapidly changing icons is not real difficulty.

I didn't mean interface addons, I meant DBM and such. Anything that warns you for boss mechanics.
I think they should keep the interface addons that rearrange visual feedback, but remove buff timers and cd trackers / boss mechanic warning signs.
That way you REALLY need to learn the bosses and classes. Develop an internal clock for stuff.

[Deleted]

remove dbm/ weakuaras / recounts / logs etc and 3/4 of people will be unable to clear HC - this would bring complexity and difficulty back to game.

sadly devs are to big of pussies to do whats nessesary.

You think you want this, but you don't. Also your reasoning is flawed. The devs develop with DBM etc. in mind these days. breaking these addons would mean they wouldn't design raids as they do now. What it would mean is a return to Molten Core/BWL levels of "complexity"; it would remove complexity, not bring it back.