1. #6001
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    In the meantime, not much new that those people following the investigation with context and common sense didn't know. Accepting illegal foreign money, lying to the IRS about accepting illegal foreign money, lying to the banks about illegal foreign money and what it would be used for, bribing European government officials, lying to the...hoooooooooold up.

    The latest indictment accuses Manafort, with Gates’s help, of secretly retaining a group of former senior European politicians to take positions that were favorable to Ukraine as part of their illegal lobbying work for Kiev’s government. That work included lobbying in the United States.

    “Although the former politicians would appear to be providing their independent assessments of Government of Ukraine actions, in fact they were paid lobbyists for Ukraine,” the indictment says.

    Manafort wired over $2 million from his offshore accounts to pay these former politicians, the indictment alleges.

    The indictment also contains several details about financial-related charges levied against Manafort that were previously public. The charges are related to the work Manafort and Gates did on behalf of pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarch Viktor Yanukovych.

    The indictment alleges that Manafort and Gates concealed their scheme to avoid registering as a foreign agent in the United States by providing a “false and misleading” statement to two unnamed lobbying firms they retained. They allegedly statedthat the European organization they worked with in their lobbying work was not linked or funded in any way by a foreign government.

    The organization, known as the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine, “was created in or about 2012 in Belgium as a mouthpiece for Yanukovych and the Party of Regions,” his political party, the indictment says.

    The U.S. lobbying firms hired by Manafort and Gates, identified only as Company A and Company B, are widely reported to be the Podesta Group and Mercury Public Affairs.
    Wow. Actually bribing government officials. On behalf of Russia.

    But I suppose Trump's rabid fanbase will somehow insist that, while Manafort and Gates were bribing other governments they were "lobbying" for, somehow, they didn't do that while running Trump's campaign.

    Are we tired of winning yet?

  2. #6002
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Wow. Actually bribing government officials. On behalf of Russia.

    But I suppose Trump's rabid fanbase will somehow insist that, while Manafort and Gates were bribing other governments they were "lobbying" for, somehow, they didn't do that while running Trump's campaign.

    Are we tired of winning yet?
    They'll probably continue to argue that it wasn't Russia, just Ukraine.
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  3. #6003
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    In the meantime, not much new that those people following the investigation with context and common sense didn't know. Accepting illegal foreign money, lying to the IRS about accepting illegal foreign money, lying to the banks about illegal foreign money and what it would be used for, bribing European government officials, lying to the...hoooooooooold up.

    The latest indictment accuses Manafort, with Gates’s help, of secretly retaining a group of former senior European politicians to take positions that were favorable to Ukraine as part of their illegal lobbying work for Kiev’s government. That work included lobbying in the United States.



    Wow. Actually bribing government officials. On behalf of Russia.

    But I suppose Trump's rabid fanbase will somehow insist that, while Manafort and Gates were bribing other governments they were "lobbying" for, somehow, they didn't do that while running Trump's campaign.

    Are we tired of winning yet?
    Group has Podesta links, buckle up for "Hillary was the real colluder" making a return.

  4. #6004
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    They'll probably continue to argue that it wasn't Russia, just Ukraine.
    A distinction so stressed it signed up for a yoga class and switched to decaf. Even if these weren't blatantly pro-Russian Ukrainians, I posit that since Russia flat-out invaded the country any distinction is moot anyhow. Speaking of which, how're those sanctions going? Still nothing? That's neat.

  5. #6005
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    Group has Podesta links, buckle up for "Hillary was the real colluder" making a return.
    What are they going to say when most of the Trump campaign is in jail? It'll be fun to see.

    I don't think Mueller gives a fuck about them moving the goalposts or making shit up.

  6. #6006
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    Group has Podesta links, buckle up for "Hillary was the real colluder" making a return.
    They can try, but they'll need to lie to do such. The Russians indicted took out zero ads for Clinton, one for Stein, the rest for Trump. Also, WikiLeaks. Claiming Clinton colluded is objectively against all evidence from Russia's actions so far.

  7. #6007
    Quote Originally Posted by Akaihiryuu View Post
    What are they going to say when most of the Trump campaign is in jail? It'll be fun to see.

    I don't think Mueller gives a fuck about them moving the goalposts or making shit up.
    "This is a coup, pardon everyone".

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    They can try, but they'll need to lie to do such. The Russians indicted took out zero ads for Clinton, one for Stein, the rest for Trump. Also, WikiLeaks. Claiming Clinton colluded is objectively against all evidence from Russia's actions so far.
    When has intellectual honesty stopped them before?

  8. #6008
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Indeed, pleading guilty to two charges only?
    Mueller's tactic :

    *throws a snowball labelled "small charges" at criminal's face*
    "That's just me getting started. Plead out and cooperate or I'm going to bury you under a fucking avalanche."

    Gates, etc. took the hint, Manafort didn't.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  9. #6009
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Mueller's tactic : *throws a snowball labelled "small charges" at criminal's face* "That's just me getting started. Plead out and cooperate or I'm going to bury you under a fucking avalanche." Gates, etc. took the hint, Manafort didn't.
    As I understand it, Gates is getting hit with the more serious charges...as a tactic to get him to cop to lesser charges to implicate bigger fish. If he refused he'd likely get jail time for life.

  10. #6010
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Wow. Actually bribing government officials. On behalf of Russia.
    Well, your politicians are bought and sold, duh.

    Were those Republican or Democrat, btw? Or was it bi-partisan?


    How does current Ukrainian President money-wiring center gets named?

    Ah, right, it's now "The National Reforms Council with the assistance of the Ukrainian Foundation for Support of Reform in Ukraine", hiring BGR Group.

    You might want to check who they paid too.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2018-02-24 at 12:28 AM.

  11. #6011
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Well, your politicians are bought and sold, duh.

    Were those Republican or Democrat, btw? Or was it bi-partisan?
    Not exactly a stinging attempt at an insult given that you're a Putin-Apologist.
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  12. #6012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    Group has Podesta links, buckle up for "Hillary was the real colluder" making a return.
    The link is that they lied to the lobbying group to retain their services. Podesta Group would be in trouble, if Manafort told them the truth.
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  13. #6013
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Not exactly a stinging attempt at an insult given that you're a Putin-Apologist.
    Insult? It is simple fact.

    Which has nothing to do with Putin; it wasn't Putin buying them, after all, but Manafort.

  14. #6014
    I'm surprised no one has brought up how inept manafort was in leaving his paper trail for all of his fraud charges.
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  15. #6015
    So the latest is new charges against Manafort. These are separate from the other new charges.

    https://apnews.com/6ebdbd65b9744284a...-guilty%20plea

    Special counsel Robert Mueller is accusing President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman of secretly paying former European politicians to lobby on behalf of Ukraine.

    The new allegation against Paul Manafort comes in a newly unsealed indictment made public Friday. The indictment followed a guilty plea by Manafort’s longtime business associate, Rick Gates.

    The indictment accuses Manafort of paying the former politicians, informally known as the “Hapsburg group,” to appear to be “independent” analysts when in fact they were paid lobbyists. Some of the covert lobbying took place in the U.S.

    The indictment says the group was managed by a former European chancellor. Court papers accuse Manafort of using offshore accounts to pay the group more than 2 million euros.
    So people are suspecting this is former German chancellor Gerhard Schröder who was replaced by Merkel. He was recently given the chair of Rosnoft and he was at odds with Merkel over his defense of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The other suggestion is Austria's former chancellor Alfred Gusenbaur who worked at a thinktank concerned with Ukraine policy.

    I don't know, but this seems like a really big deal. Like investigations starting in other countries.
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  16. #6016
    Scarab Lord Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    The IRS is going to be insufferable if they get another scalp.
    They just will cut their staff, quadruple their work load, and bury them in bullshit.

    I'm not sure if anyone is the head, not just acting head. I don't want to step on Breccia's brilliant "I don't exist" quotes from department heads.
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  17. #6017
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    I'm not sure if anyone is the head, not just acting head.
    Rettig hasn't been confirmed yet.

    And whoever it is has their work cut out for them. A brand new tax code and also budget cuts for helping people figure them out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    More details emerge.

    Gates also admitted that he helped Manafort mislead Manafort's tax preparer and did not disclose the accounts overseas, which had more than $10,000. He classified overseas payments as "loans," so that Manafort didn't have to pay taxes on them. Gates also did not report their existence on either tax or Foreign Bank and Financial Account Reports (FBAR). Gates admitted that he knew that it was illegal for a U.S. citizen to have an overseas bank account without reporting it to the IRS.
    "More than $10,000" refers to the customs limit for the amount of cash you can bring in without declaration. There is no upper limit past that $10,000 and Manafort is accused of harboring millions.

  18. #6018
    The Unstoppable Force
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    This nothingburger keeps on giving. We're going to have to upgrade it to a 5 course meal at some point.

  19. #6019
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Well, your politicians are bought and sold, duh.
    Lame comeback even by your standards.

    Come on, what does Putin pay you for?
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  20. #6020
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Lame comeback even by your standards.

    Come on, what does Putin pay you for?
    Yeah, yeah, deflect to Putin, clearly politicians would stop being corrupt if Putin would not exist.

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