1. #6001
    Deleted
    You have to think Wilbur Ross is going to get caught up sooner or later.

  2. #6002
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    If the reports from a while back that Deutsche Bank handed over Trump's bank records are correct, that should make Trump very nervous indeed.
    Yes, based on what we're seeing, Manafort/Gates took some illegal loans -- possibly because they weren't loans -- and didn't disclose them. It is reasonable to believe that Trump's tax returns are in play.

  3. #6003
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Yes, based on what we're seeing, Manafort/Gates took some illegal loans -- possibly because they weren't loans -- and didn't disclose them. It is reasonable to believe that Trump's tax returns are in play.
    Boy, we sure have come a long way from "Trump colluded with Russia". Whatever works, I guess.

    And I guess if it turns out he's guilty of some crime completely divorced from Trump-Russia, who am I to object?

    But man, this Mueller probe sure was a great second-place prize for Democrats. Get to investigate Trump for all the things!

  4. #6004
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Boy, we sure have come a long way from "Trump colluded with Russia". Whatever works, I guess.

    And I guess if it turns out he's guilty of some crime completely divorced from Trump-Russia, who am I to object?

    But man, this Mueller probe sure was a great second-place prize for Democrats. Get to investigate Trump for all the things!
    Yes, we know that Russia worked on behalf of Trump’s campaign and his campaign has several members that are tied Russian money laundering. We also know that Trump has something in his tax record, that he is afraid for the world to see. Something in his tax records, that a man who claims he can shoot someone and his support will not waver, is afraid to reveal.

    This is while Russian forces attacked US troops... the same Russian forces Trump defends as helping us fight terrorists. Sanctions that congress passed on Russia, have not been enforced by Trump. The same Trump who claims he never denied Russian interference, even though he is on record saying he asked Putin and he doesn’t believe Putin will lie.

    I know it happened after the election. But, what do you call Trump asking Putin and then repeating his lie to the public, claiming Putin was an honest person? What do you call Trump ignoring US intelligence, claiming FBI is out to get him, but trusting Putin?

    @Dacien do you deny that Trump was touting Putin saying he did not interfear in our elections, as the truth and a trust worthy comment. While at the same time insulting US intelligence, claiming the FBI is lying, firing Comey due to the cloud of the Russian investigation. If not collusion, what do you call Trump trusting Putin, more than US institutions?
    Last edited by Felya; 2018-02-23 at 04:57 AM.
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  5. #6005
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Boy, we sure have come a long way from "Trump colluded with Russia". Whatever works, I guess.

    And I guess if it turns out he's guilty of some crime completely divorced from Trump-Russia, who am I to object?

    But man, this Mueller probe sure was a great second-place prize for Democrats. Get to investigate Trump for all the things!
    Just what is your purpose here? In any of your posts here, I mean. Seriously... what is your purpose here?

    I don't get your posts at all as they make no sense. You try to write like some half-baked whimsical pothead who's seen some magical epiphany, and yet talk complete nonsense - literally nonsense, as in literally your postings makes no sense.

    There's nothing to suggest he's innocent, and yet you speak as though it's inevitable. That doesn't make any sense...

    You say strange things like "the Probe was a great second-place prize for democrats". Not only do you speak as if the investigation is in past tense (that doesn't make sense) but also the phrase "Second place prize" doesn't make any sense either...

    "Get to investigate Trump for all the things!"? What the hell does that mean? You speak like it's some great honor or something. How does that make any sense?

    Seriously, I don't get your purpose in any of your posts.

  6. #6006
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Boy, we sure have come a long way from "Trump colluded with Russia". Whatever works, I guess.

    And I guess if it turns out he's guilty of some crime completely divorced from Trump-Russia, who am I to object?

    But man, this Mueller probe sure was a great second-place prize for Democrats. Get to investigate Trump for all the things!
    Imagine how tedious it must be to play chess with you. Every time someone takes one of your pieces, you launch into a spiel about how it's just a pawn or a rook or the Queen, so there's no way this game could be leading towards the King.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  7. #6007
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Boy, we sure have come a long way from "Trump colluded with Russia". Whatever works, I guess.

    And I guess if it turns out he's guilty of some crime completely divorced from Trump-Russia, who am I to object?

    But man, this Mueller probe sure was a great second-place prize for Democrats. Get to investigate Trump for all the things!
    Money-laundering like these indictments indicate is evidence of such collusion. And the claim was always "Trump's campaign colluded with Russia". A lot of us never figured Trump was smart enough to plot this kind of stuff out in the first place.

    It's still reason to see his Presidency as completely tainted.

    Also, it bears mentioning that Mueller isn't done. This is just his next move. These kinds of cases make for long games.

  8. #6008
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    @Dacien do you deny that Trump was touting Putin saying he did not interfear in our elections, as the truth and a trust worthy comment. While at the same time insulting US intelligence, claiming the FBI is lying, firing Comey due to the cloud of the Russian investigation. If not collusion, what do you call Trump trusting Putin, more than US institutions?
    These are complicated questions that require tons of necessary context and prefacing and explanation to properly unpack.

    What I can tell you is that I'm open to a Trump-Russia election cooperation criminal charge. If that happens, I'll be wrong, and that's going to very unpleasant for me on this board (maybe enough people have written me off where it won't matter?), but I don't think, in spite of the smoke, there's actually fire. But I'm open to it. I accepted Comey's Hillary email announcement, even if I thought it was pretty nuts, I accepted the conclusion. I'll accept the conclusion of the Mueller investigation.

    I've spent a lot of time detailing arguments about this subject, but I've come to a point where I feel like the only things that are really worth discussing anymore are interesting new announcements, a hypothetical major bombshell, or the conclusion of the investigation. But rehashing suspicion that Trump or Trump associates did or did not commit an election-related crime (or obstruction)? I just don't have much left in the tank for that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Also, it bears mentioning that Mueller isn't done. This is just his next move. These kinds of cases make for long games.
    I plan to be here till the end. It's too interesting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Imagine how tedious it must be to play chess with you. Every time someone takes one of your pieces, you launch into a spiel about how it's just a pawn or a rook or the Queen, so there's no way this game could be leading towards the King.
    I still get checkmated either way though, don't I?

  9. #6009
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Also, it bears mentioning that Mueller isn't done. This is just his next move.
    It does not bear mentioning.

    Everyone with any context and understanding of the case, knows that Mueller isn't done. And that he's clearly capable of multitasking -- for example, indicting Russians for helping Trump's campaign, and more charges against Manafort, who works with Russia, in about a week of each other.

    People who have no sense of context or understanding of the case, are meaningless noise and offer nothing to the conversation. Especially after they prove over dozens of posts they are incapable of context and understanding of the case. There is no reason to talk to these people, who have proven that logic and information are not values they're interested in, only semantics and denial.

    It's like saying the sky is blue anymore.
    Most people will say "Yes, it is."
    A few will say "But you didn't say clouds were white, so they're not, they're green."
    Neither side will look up.

  10. #6010
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    It does not bear mentioning.

    Everyone with any context and understanding of the case, knows that Mueller isn't done. And that he's clearly capable of multitasking -- for example, indicting Russians for helping Trump's campaign, and more charges against Manafort, who works with Russia, in about a week of each other.

    People who have no sense of context or understanding of the case, are meaningless noise and offer nothing to the conversation. Especially after they prove over dozens of posts they are incapable of context and understanding of the case. There is no reason to talk to these people, who have proven that logic and information are not values they're interested in, only semantics and denial.

    It's like saying the sky is blue anymore.
    Most people will say "Yes, it is."
    A few will say "But you didn't say clouds were white, so they're not, they're green."
    Neither side will look up.
    Yes, but as with so many other threads, I don't expect to change the minds of those who say the clouds are green.

    I intend to point upwards and invite others to look for themselves, because anyone can see they're white.

    When someone's prancing around and shouting that clouds are green, someone has to stand up and say "no, they're white, just look up you daft nugget". Otherwise, as you said, nobody might bother looking up. The moment there's two stories, and you make it easy to check which has the facts, people will check the facts. But if you let there only be one story, people won't bother because if it weren't true, someone would say something, right?

  11. #6011
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    These are complicated questions that require tons of necessary context and prefacing and explanation to properly unpack.
    No, they are not. Trump did claim he talked to Putin and trusts him, while claiming FBI illegally wired tapped him. A simple foolish would suffice to answer, without saying collusion. That’s what I think Trump did... be a fool... a patsy... a person that folds for compliments... not collusion... it looks like collusion, but it’s two parallel lines, without an intersecting point. They were going in the same direction because Putin is cunning and Trump is incompetent.

    What I can tell you is that I'm open to a Trump-Russia election cooperation criminal charge. If that happens, I'll be wrong, and that's going to very unpleasant for me on this board (maybe enough people have written me off where it won't matter?), but I don't think, in spite of the smoke, there's actually fire. But I'm open to it. I accepted Comey's Hillary email announcement, even if I thought it was pretty nuts, I accepted the conclusion. I'll accept the conclusion of the Mueller investigation.
    But, I am giving you a way out. A way to maintain that Trump didn’t collude, while admitting that something few would disagree with, that Trump is incompetent and prone to misjudgment of character. You get to save face, by simply not denying collusion, but asserting an agreeable compromise. No one will call you a Trump drone for it, while you maintain the same exact position.

    This is very similar to what I did in the shooting thread, by mentioning metal detectors. You treat my replies as antagonistic, which to some degree they are... but, I usually try to find an agreeable compromise.

    I've spent a lot of time detailing arguments about this subject, but I've come to a point where I feel like the only things that are really worth discussing anymore are interesting new announcements, a hypothetical major bombshell, or the conclusion of the investigation. But rehashing suspicion that Trump or Trump associates did or did not commit an election-related crime (or obstruction)? I just don't have much left in the tank for that.
    You cannot say stuff like this in a long winded post. One of the reasons ‘I aignt got time fo that’ is funny, is the contractions, while saying you have not time. Long winded posts explaining why you don’t have anything left in the tank are just weird...
    Entropy won't yield to you.
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  12. #6012
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Boy, we sure have come a long way from "Trump colluded with Russia". Whatever works, I guess.
    I'll never understand why you seem to hate how Mueller is catching criminals in our government. I don't get why you'd love them to not get caught.

    And I guess if it turns out he's guilty of some crime completely divorced from Trump-Russia, who am I to object?
    Considering you've been complaining a lot about it since the start, I'd have to say that you'd have to be.....well you.

    But man, this Mueller probe sure was a great second-place prize for Democrats. Get to investigate Trump for all the things!
    Better than investigating him for none of it, much like how you would prefer it.

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  13. #6013
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Does he? He's being indicted for $30 million in bad loans to real estate he over-estimated.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well. This is just perfect.

    Kushner can't get a security clearance because he's under FBI investigation.



    Man, all those times you thought he didn't have his security clearance because he kept forgetting all those Russians he worked with...well, you were half right.
    What is even the point of security clearance if people can just continue working for the administration without it?

  14. #6014
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Boy, we sure have come a long way from "Trump colluded with Russia". Whatever works, I guess.

    And I guess if it turns out he's guilty of some crime completely divorced from Trump-Russia, who am I to object?

    But man, this Mueller probe sure was a great second-place prize for Democrats. Get to investigate Trump for all the things!
    Well, that's a classic deflection. Whatever you need to do to rationalize your decision to support such a terrible human being, I guess this is your coping mechanism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  15. #6015
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    What is even the point of security clearance if people can just continue working for the administration without it?
    It's true, the Executive Branch is pretty much choosing not to police itself. Granted, there are House and Senate Oversight Committees, but the House's leader is stepping down and nobody wants the head of that one. Basically, the point is just to demonstrate how blatantly corrupt they are, leading to stories like this one, which not only say that Kelly might resign in frustration but might take McMaster with him. As @Skroe would surely say if he was here, Kelly and McMaster were two required people in Trump's administration to give it any amount of credibility at all. Their loss, especially their loss if they say Trump is fucking up to the point they can't stand it, will be costly.

    Technically, the President can just hand over classified information whenever he wants, to whomever he wants. We've seen that before. He just has to admit that he's going to give classified information to his son-in-law, for no reason, other than it's his son-in-law.

  16. #6016
    Annnnd... Gates is pleading guilty.

  17. #6017
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    Annnnd... Gates is pleading guilty.
    @Ransath will be pleased to know this.

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  18. #6018
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    Annnnd... Gates is pleading guilty.
    Source please.

    Oh...wait.

  19. #6019
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/u...stigation.html

    Just for the source for @kaelleria.

    Guess he knows that the last round of charges against him and Manafort would bring him down for the rest of his life.

    Dammit @Breccia.

  20. #6020
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/u...stigation.html

    Just for the source for @kaelleria.

    Guess he knows that the last round of charges against him and Manafort would bring him down for the rest of his life.

    Dammit @Breccia.
    ... or he knows it might be better to plea now, before even more charges are added. This was Muller saying ‘if you don’t think we know enough for you to plea now, here is a little more of what we know’.
    Entropy won't yield to you.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    I don’t work here, I only smoke here.

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