Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[NYC17]

[url=http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/382411-trump-must-beware-the-cohen-trap]This opinion p

5) And finally...Cohen might just be bait. The author conjectures that Mueller, working with the state's AG to protect himself, might be trying to draw Trump to attempt to fire him, or trying to pardon Cohen, either way handing him all the obstruction evidence he needs.

Eh, that's the problem with Turley. Whatever information he provides is always inevitably skewed and colored with making Trump the victim of something. Is it possible that Mueller would risk the investigation in a weird and convoluted attempt to get Cohen to flip in a separate investigation? Sure, I guess anything is possible. It doesn't seem likely and it assumes that Mueller's own investigation isn't bearing fruit.

There is so much more to this than anyone outside the investigation knows. It's fun to experience in a way, but it's also a reminder that people have agendas and it constantly influences what is supposed to be worthwhile analysis.

[Ripster42]

People have already debunked this: Everything gotten from Cohen is going to be gone through by a third-party and if it involves Trump it will be set aside. Everything that doesn't involve Trump goes to Mueller.

Well, maybe. If the communications shouldn't be sheltered by privilege because they're acts in furtherance of a crime, mueller will get them.

For reference, the relevant part of the USAM is 9-13.420 with regard on how to conduct those searches, and supreme court case Alexander v. U.S., 201 U.S. 117, 121 (1906) (this case might be hard to parse, but the judges basically say "Just because you were using lawyers [in this case referred to as officers of the company, which were effectively acting as the companies' lawyers] to conduct illegal communications doesn't mean they're privileged") which set up the crime fraud exemption to attorney-client privilege. So they'll have one team of prosecutors (mueller) who never gets to see the communications that are privileged, while another team of prosecutors (NYSD) will have access to all communications and make a determination of what communication is actually privileged or not and relay the communications that were not privileged to mueller's team.

This is what I think is happening. If I'm wrong on anything here, point it out to me, I'll be glad to correct.

[Breccia]

If the communications shouldn't be sheltered by privilege because they're acts in furtherance of a crime

OR if they weren't done on behalf of a client at all

mueller will get them.

[Ripster42]

3) Reportedly, Mueller went to Rosenstein first. Rosenstein is in charge of what does, and what doesn't, fall under Mueller's investigation. Rosenstein was the one who threw this to New York, a state, and state crimes can't be pardoned. Plus, since Trump personally interviewed and hired the NYAG involved, there can't be claims of bias. Well, not legitimate ones, anyhow.

I thought he handed it off to NYSD not NYAG. That's still federal.

Edit: which is why I think there's a good chance NYSD is the dirty team. Sending it off to another federal prosecutor instead of getting a firewall between the president and the prosecution means, to me, that mueller is looking to break privilege on something directly related to his investigations.

[Mormolyce]

UPDATE:
Skroe has been banned. What's the next major shitstorm to hit Agolf Twittler?

Oooh boy, put a pot of coffee on.

[NYC17]

I thought he handed it off to NYSD not NYAG. That's still federal.

You are correct. It's a separate federal investigation.


Also, this is great...

The husband of White House counselor Kellyanne Conway responded to President Trump on Twitter after Trump tweeted that "attorney client privilege is dead" following a raid on the offices of his lawyer, Michael Cohen.

George Conway retweeted the message Tuesday morning from the president and included a link to the Justice Department's website explaining why Cohen's offices were not protected from a Monday no-knock FBI raid by attorney-client privilege.


"There are occasions when effective law enforcement may require the issuance of a search warrant for the premises of an attorney who is a subject of an investigation, and who also is or may be engaged in the practice of law on behalf of clients," the Justice Department's website reads.

"In order to avoid impinging on valid attorney-client relationships, prosecutors are expected to take the least intrusive approach consistent with vigorous and effective law enforcement when evidence is sought from an attorney actively engaged in the practice of law."

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...mpression=true

Just to be clear. This is the spouse of a close and trusted adviser to the president publicly correcting the president during a Twitter tantrum.

#thistimelinetho

[Mormolyce]

Attorney–client privilege is dead!

-- a 7AM tweet from a whimpering, scared little boy

Remember that time Trump Jr cited attorney-client confidentiality because there was a lawyer in the room?

[alexw]

Remember that time Trump Jr cited attorney-client confidentiality because there was a lawyer in the room?

Don't you know a lawyer is the real world equivalent of iceblock? When one is activated nothing can harm you or pierce through it.

[Mormolyce]

Don't you know a lawyer is the real world equivalent of iceblock? When one is activated nothing can harm you or pierce through it.

Oh shit, Mueller's so oldschool he still has Shattering Throw on his action bars!

[Antiganon]

Was it Thwart again?

Yes, but Skroe brought some major fire. IMO if it was reported as flaming, the infraction is accurate.

The criticisms levied in @Skroe's post were also accurate, but the forum rules just say you can't flame people, they don't say anything about exceptions when the people you are flaming are 100% deserving of it.

[Redwyrm]

Don't you know a lawyer is the real world equivalent of iceblock? When one is activated nothing can harm you or pierce through it.

"You don't want a criminal lawyer. You want a *criminal* lawyer..."



Couldn't find the desert scene where they pay him a dollar to maintain attorney/client privilege

[mvaliz]

Not sure if it's been said yet, but in more Mueller news - apparently Dumbfuck Dump accepted a 150k donation by a Ukranian billionaire while he was campaigning for the Presidency.

The New York Times reported Monday that Mueller is investigating the $150,000 donation to the Donald J. Trump Foundation that Ukrainian billionaire Victor Pinchuk made in September 2015, while Trump was seeking the GOP nomination for president.

The payment came after Trump spoke through a video link to a conference in Kiev, according to the Times.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...gave-to-trumps

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/09/polit...ion/index.html

Remind me, isn't this exactly the same kinda shit the Dumpsters were pissed at for Hillary supposedly doing with the Clinton Foundation?

[Flarelaine]

Yes, but Skroe brought some major fire. IMO if it was reported as flaming, the infraction is accurate.

The criticisms levied in @Skroe's post were also accurate, but the forum rules just say you can't flame people, they don't say anything about exceptions when the people you are flaming are 100% deserving of it.

I've found the post since and concur with your analysis.

[Ripster42]

Not sure if it's been said yet, but in more Mueller news - apparently Dumbfuck Dump accepted a 150k donation by a Ukranian billionaire while he was campaigning for the Presidency.


Remind me, isn't this exactly the same kinda shit the Dumpsters were pissed at for Hillary supposedly doing with the Clinton Foundation?

Considering there are fairly widespread allegations of self-dealing involved with his charity, no, it's not like that. It's worse.

[Breccia]

I thought he handed it off to NYSD not NYAG. That's still federal.

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't post pre-coffee.

Oooh boy, put a pot of coffee on.

Where were you 2 hours ago?

- - - Updated - - -

A group of top House Democrats are appealing to Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) for help in obtaining records from the Trump administration related to the Russian attacks against 21 state election systems in 2016.

Oh, you know it's bad when Democrats are asking Paul Ryan for help.

The six Democrats, who serve as the ranking members of congressional committees, say they’re trying to recruit Ryan’s help because they’ve exhausted all their other options.

“Our goal is to obtain the documents collected and prepared by our federal agencies about these Russian attacks in order to take concrete steps to prevent them from happening again,” they wrote in a letter to Ryan on Tuesday.

“Unfortunately we are being blocked by Trump Administration officials who refuse to produce these documents to Congress and by Republican Chairmen who refuse to demand them. These actions create the unfortunate perception that House Republicans do not want to obtain these documents relating to the Russian attacks against state election systems,” they added.

A top Department of Homeland Security (DHS) official revealed during an appearance on Capitol Hill last June that Russia had targeted election-related systems in 21 states leading up to the 2016 presidential election, while declining to identify which states were impacted for confidentiality purposes. DHS has repeatedly said there is no evidence that any votes were changed.

In January, the Democrats recounted in their letter how they pressed DHS for specific information about the affected 21 states, including “the names of the state officials or offices that were notified.”

The Democrats additionally describe their multiple attempts to wrestle the documents from DHS, saying the law enforcement agency repeatedly produced unsatisfactory responses to their requests.

In one case, they said the agency turned over 50 pages of documents to the lawmakers about Moscow’s meddling that largely “consisted of publicly available documents.”

“To our knowledge, the Trump Administration has not provided any Committee in the House of Representatives with these classified documents about Russian-backed attacks against state election systems,” they wrote.

Trump's WH is stonewalling any options to block Russia from attacking the election directly. Hey, remember that time Trump said there was no collusion?

- - - Updated - - -

Reportedly, Trump is backing away from his stated desire to talk to Mueller.

[Stormspark]

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't post pre-coffee.



Where were you 2 hours ago?

- - - Updated - - -

A group of top House Democrats are appealing to Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) for help in obtaining records from the Trump administration related to the Russian attacks against 21 state election systems in 2016.

Oh, you know it's bad when Democrats are asking Paul Ryan for help.



Trump's WH is stonewalling any options to block Russia from attacking the election directly. Hey, remember that time Trump said there was no collusion?

- - - Updated - - -

Reportedly, Trump is backing away from his stated desire to talk to Mueller.

I wonder what he will say when he's dragged into an "interview" forcibly via indictment?

[Belize]

I wonder what he will say when he's dragged into an "interview" forcibly via indictment?

Witch Hunt!

[Kujako]

Witch Hunt!

How could it be a witch hunt, when Vin Diesel was the Last Witch Hunter?

[Stormspark]

Witch Hunt!

If it's a witch hunt, then Trump looks like this:

[Breccia]

If it's a witch hunt, then Trump looks like this:

On topic: this Slate article goes into detail on why Mueller didn't do this directly.

The FBI raided Michael Cohen’s office and hotel room on Monday, and what we know about who did the raid is just as important as the information we have on why they did it.

The raid was by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, and not directly by Robert Mueller’s special counsel’s office. Mueller’s team referred the case to the U.S. attorney, but the U.S. attorney sought the search warrant and received it only after establishing probable cause. In searches of such high-profile and sensitive subjects, U.S. attorneys usually need approval higher up in the Department of Justice.

Why might this U.S. attorney’s office have been involved? One answer is the most basic: a raid of at least two locations simultaneously—office and hotel—requires a lot of bodies and coordination.

What else might this move tell us about Robert Mueller’s thinking? First, remember that Mueller has learned that Trump has already tried to fire him, and the person who reportedly stopped him—White House counsel Don McGahn—is rumored to be on his way out of the administration.

"Whoa whoa whoa! What?"

This article was cited.

Second, Mueller’s move also suggests that he trusts some prosecutors to cooperate, that he trusts Rosenstein to keep up his supervision, and that he at least has sufficient hope that Sessions will stay out of the way.

Third, Mueller may be thinking about politics and legitimacy. Monday’s raid does not fit the right-wing narrative of a deep-state Inspector Javert out of control, but instead, it involves more traditional law enforcement officials and even more Trump appointees.

Fourth, this raid involved not only the U.S. attorney’s office, but also a federal judge or magistrate judge signing off on the search warrant on the president’s lawyer after finding probable cause of criminal acts.

Fifth, Mueller may simply realize that his team already has too much work to prosecute Cohen for campaign finance felonies.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Finally, anyone who has been following this investigation knows that Michael Cohen’s involvement is more than just hush-money for his client’s sexual adventures. If Cohen knows where the bodies are buried, Mueller may be one step closer to knowing, too.

Snipped, but feel free to read the whole thing.

- - - Updated - - -

Alan Dershowitz spins on Hannity's show that this is a dangerous attack on privilege.

"I tell [clients] on my word of honor that what you tell me is sacrosanct," Dershowitz added later. "And now they say, just based on probable cause ... they can burst into the office, grab all the computers, and then give it to another FBI agent and say, 'You're the firewall. We want you now to read all these confidential communications, tell us which ones we can get and which ones we can't get.'"

Dershowitz conveniently leaves out all of the relevant parts, including that Cohen is being investigated for committing crimes. Crimes such as fraud, which privilege does not cover.