1. #7121
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Trump can think investigating Cohen is a witch hunt all he wants, I don't think Mueller and the Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York are raiding his office without substantial reason.
    Well, Mueller isn't raiding it. It's strictly done by the SDNY. It's a separate, 2nd criminal investigation into Trump and his lawyer.

    The problem Dacien, is that Trump was on TV earlier whining about Sessions, Rosenstein, and Mueller. Specifically regarding Mueller, he said that "many people" have told him to fire Mueller and "we'll see what happens".

    So, since Trump has the ability to cause a domino effect which might end in the firing of Mueller, it's not as simple as the handwave you attempted. This is the problem with thinking that everything regarding Trump and Russia is nothing. It touches everything.

  2. #7122
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So you think a judge just signed off on the warrant because...why the fuck not?
    No, my post is directly in contradiction of this. I think the judge signed the warrant because they had very good reason.
    Jesus is Lord

  3. #7123
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akris15 View Post
    You don't order this unless you know you are 100%+ sure you will find something...
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I admit that the law isn't my forte, but to raid Cohen's office they would need a search warrant, no? And to get a search warrant they would need to convince a judge. So yeah, I definitely think they have something here.

  4. #7124
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Plain wording would have included a modifier of some type. Otherwise your statement is fallacious and, most assuredly, not plainly worded.
    Incorrect. It's pretty pathetic that I need to link a definition for you, but since you're married to your absurd line of criticism...here we go.

    This is the word fraction. It has a few different meanings, but as you'll see the most common one has subtext to it which implies something. That something belies your whining about the need for a "modifier":

    frac·tion
    ˈfrakSH(ə)n/Submit
    noun
    noun: fraction; plural noun: fractions; noun: Fraction; noun: the Fraction
    1.
    a numerical quantity that is not a whole number (e.g., 1/2, 0.5).
    a small or tiny part, amount, or proportion of something.
    "he hesitated for a fraction of a second"
    synonyms: tiny part, fragment, snippet, snatch, smattering, selection More
    a dissenting group within a larger one.
    each of the portions into which a mixture may be separated by a process in which the individual components behave differently according to their physical properties.
    2.
    (in the Christian Church) the breaking of the Eucharistic bread.


    I cannot believe your absurdity dictated this


    The modifier isn't required. In fact it's redundant. The only person who would demand one be used is someone who was being pedantic, and can't let the fact that they were completely wrong about something most people would consider to be insignificant be the final word

    Unfortunately for you, that is the final word. Better luck next time.

  5. #7125
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC17 View Post
    The problem Dacien, is that Trump was on TV earlier whining about Sessions, Rosenstein, and Mueller. Specifically regarding Mueller, he said that "many people" have told him to fire Mueller and "we'll see what happens".

    So, since Trump has the ability to cause a domino effect which might end in the firing of Mueller, it's not as simple as the handwave you attempted. This is the problem with thinking that everything regarding Trump and Russia is nothing. It touches everything.
    What handwave? I think there's a very good reason for the raid. Trump doesn't think so? That's his problem.

    Edit: I think I understand what you're getting at.

    Okay, if Trump flips his crap and fires Mueller over this, that definitely ties it in some way to the Trump-Russia investigation. I'll concede that.
    Last edited by Dacien; 2018-04-10 at 12:29 AM.
    Jesus is Lord

  6. #7126
    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I admit that the law isn't my forte, but to raid Cohen's office they would need a search warrant, no? And to get a search warrant they would need to convince a judge. So yeah, I definitely think they have something here.
    Pretty much it's that simple, yup. They convinced a judge that A) There was likely something of value B) They would find it with this warrant and C) Cohen would probably not willingly hand this thing over (this is the most important part).

  7. #7127
    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I admit that the law isn't my forte, but to raid Cohen's office they would need a search warrant, no? And to get a search warrant they would need to convince a judge. So yeah, I definitely think they have something here.
    Sorry if that came out wrong but Judges don't like ordering warrants on Lawyers even if they know they could find things of interest.

  8. #7128
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I admit that the law isn't my forte, but to raid Cohen's office they would need a search warrant, no? And to get a search warrant they would need to convince a judge. So yeah, I definitely think they have something here.
    Im positive its that they already had something and the raid was just to secure legal evidence. Its pretty much what they did with Manafort. So they went in knowing exactly what they needed and showed a judge a ton of probably cause to get their warrant.

  9. #7129
    God bless Robert Mueller and Michael Avenatti.

  10. #7130
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    No, my post is directly in contradiction of this. I think the judge signed the warrant because they had very good reason.
    Ah misread your post, my bad!

  11. #7131
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Ah misread your post, my bad!
    No worries.
    Jesus is Lord

  12. #7132
    Ken White over at Popehat on the search (second link if this is down):
    Recently I've been listening to the Podcast "Slow Burn," about Watergate. There's a fascinating theme throughout it: when you're living a historical event, how do you know? How can you tell when a development is a Big Deal?

    This is a big deal. It's very early on, but here's some things we can already tell.
    ...
    The feds are only supposed to raid a law firm if less intrusive measures won't work.
    Such a search requires high-level approval. The USAM requires such a search warrant to be approved by the U.S. Attorney — the head of the office, a Presidential appointee — and requires "consultation" with the Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. This is not a couple of rogue AUSAs sneaking in a warrant.
    Such a search requires an elaborate review process.
    I'd recommend the quick read there for anyone trying to catch up on the latest - White isn't prone to overreaction.
    Last edited by Spectral; 2018-04-10 at 12:42 AM.

  13. #7133
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Trump can think investigating Cohen is a witch hunt all he wants, I don't think Mueller and the Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York are raiding his office without substantial reason.

    - - - Updated - - -



    We're still waiting for evidence of criminal collusion. Papadoupolos (at least as far as what Mueller has produced) is as close as we've come, and I've written probably a hundred paragraphs about why it is not evidence of criminal collusion. Strictly speaking about what Mueller has produced, there is nothing in the way of Trump-Russia criminal collusion. If Trump Tower or any of the other highlights gain the attention of Mueller, we can talk about that then.
    Your premise is flawed. You are attempting to use a lack of evidence as evidence itself. Surely McCarthy didn't teach you that sucha thing was sound legal theory, or even a worthwhile thought.

    What position in the DOJ do you hold that would grant you privilege of the inner workings and information the investigation has uncovered, and that Mueller possesses?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I admit that the law isn't my forte, but to raid Cohen's office they would need a search warrant, no? And to get a search warrant they would need to convince a judge. So yeah, I definitely think they have something here.
    Not only a judge, but a district attorney who was personally interviewed by Trump, and ultimately appointed in the interim until he was approved by the Senate.

    My guess is that's over now.

  14. #7134
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC17 View Post
    Your premise is flawed. You are attempting to use a lack of evidence as evidence itself. Surely McCarthy didn't teach you that sucha thing was sound legal theory, or even a worthwhile thought.

    What position in the DOJ do you hold that would grant you privilege of the inner workings and information the investigation has uncovered, and that Mueller possesses?
    Okay, that's fair, strictly speaking. Publicly, there is no evidence from Mueller. Up until such time as there is, I will be skeptical.
    Jesus is Lord

  15. #7135
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Ken White over at Popehat on the search:

    ...



    I'd recommend the quick read there for anyone trying to catch up on the latest - White isn't prone to overreaction.
    Link's down for me. Fortunately there appears to be a mirror on Reason.

  16. #7136
    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I admit that the law isn't my forte, but to raid Cohen's office they would need a search warrant, no? And to get a search warrant they would need to convince a judge. So yeah, I definitely think they have something here.
    Which makes Trump's using the phrase "broken into" all the more galling, "Law and Order" president indeed

  17. #7137
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Ken White over at Popehat on the search:

    ...



    I'd recommend the quick read there for anyone trying to catch up on the latest - White isn't prone to overreaction.
    Right. There goes Berman's nomination...

  18. #7138
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Manafort denied bail, Cohen is no on the path of going to jail or flipping. If I were Trump I would be having a panic attack right now.

  19. #7139
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Manafort denied bail, Cohen is no on the path of going to jail or flipping. If I were Trump I would be having a panic attack right now.
    what did you think 90% of his twitting is

    some people stress eat, some workout, some get in fights, he throws a verbal tantrum

  20. #7140
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Manafort denied bail, Cohen is no on the path of going to jail or flipping. If I were Trump I would be having a panic attack right now.
    $10 says he's screaming at people and threatening to fire Sessions, Rosenstein, and appoint someone to fire Mueller at this very moment. His legal team and advisers are most likely threatening to quit if he does so.

    No one wants to be part of that shit show.

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