Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Deleted]

I don't think you know how politics work. Most of what you listed here is completely irrelevant to world leaders. You're just pointing out how horrible you think Americans are. There will be practically no change in how America is dealt with by the leaders of your country or any other in Europe. Don't think I dislike America's global political faults any less than you do. But just as I'm stuck with America, so are you. But scream all you want. Your objections are meaningless. America is still going to be a world leader. In what way will that change? Will America be excluded from trade deals? Will American military bases be removed from ally nations? Will America be kicked out of NATO? No? Then calm down and go sit in a corner.

I will sit here and tell you the truth about your country, that you have been manipulated to chant for all your life. If you don't like it, you can go press Alt F4.

Our leaders are already treating you differently, and the fact that you don't even know that, speaks volumes about the blindness the average american has for anything outside the borders of their own turf.

* Europe is currently negotiating a new Sino-European Trade agreement...aka. the largest trade deal in the history of mankind, that not only encompasses China and the EU, but half the pacific rim countries. Guess whos not even invited? Correct: the orange buffoon and his lickspittles.

* Similar agreements have already been made with canada, and south american countries. You have shown a disinterest in cooperative trade and instead favor nationalism and isolation. So, as a consequence, you will be isolated.

* The ECB is discussing changes in the global economic politics, with the ultimate goal of establishing the Euro and the Renminbi as lead currencies alongside the Dollar. We have the largest Oil producing countries (other than the US) on board, because they too are sick and tired of getting caught up in your inevitably coming next depression caused by american politics.

* We have spent the last 10 years isolating our financial institutions from US based systems, and placeing restrictions on trades our banks and companies make with predatory investment firms in the US. We have done so, because we know that your country is too incompetent to reign in the kind of shady financial dealings that caused the last 4 depressions. And as we have seen in the DowJones/NASDAQ quakes of the last few weeks, we were right to do so. Teh next crash is already on the horizon. This time however, we won't be caught up in it, and we won't help you overcome it. You wil be left to marinade in your own stench and greed this time.

* Companies such as the one I have the pleaure to work for, are booming. We are developing database, cloud computing, and hosting solutions for private companies. Wanna know what one our biggest selling points is? That we are not US based, and do not depend on Google, Apple, Amazon or Microshit. That alone is getting us so many customers who no longer want US intelligence facilitating industrial espionage, it's ridiculous.

* NATO will soon be you and some representatives we lazily send there. Spending by European countries for NATO is reduced, and currently talks are underway to funnel these funds into a Eropean Military Cooperation force...aka. the first steps towards an armed branch of the EU that is not under control of any one nation in the Union.

* We are currently building the EPS, to eliminate the reliance on the GPS, which is run by the US military. Guess who has no say in how the new system operates? You.

These are just a few examples.
You will still be talked to, don't worry. Just as our mothers and teachers taught us to not exclude the fat, smelly kid from the group in school, we will not ignore you.

But don't think we like, respect or fear you.
You are no longer an ally. You certainly are no longer a friend.

Maybe some distant day in the future, when your country has regained it's sanity, and behaves like a civilized member of western industrialized society once more, this will change. But as things are now, such times are far away.

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I did not know that current estimated amount to fix our infrastructure was estimated at the 4 trillion mark. This is the same order of magnitude of dollars we spent on our Iraq / Afghanistan / Libya / Syria / Yemen adventures. It is no surprise that this 4 trillion dollar estimate is not widely publicized in the US. And it sounds like it is about the correct amount

Actually the number was an understatement.

I looked up the source for you, the actual amount is in excess of 4.5 Trillion.
https://www.infrastructurereportcard...onomic-impact/

Worse than the fact that your roads are crumbling away and your railroad systems are by now a more dangerous mode of transportation than trying to piggy back on a hungry shark, are the estimated economic impacts your infrastructure spending gap will have, also according to ASCE predicitions.

By 2025, your failing infrastructure will have caused...

* 3.9 Trillion $ in losses to the US GDP
* 7 Trillion $ in lost business sales
* the elimination of around 2.5 million jobs across the US

And of course, this only gets worse over time. The longer you wait, the more it will cost to fix the damage.

[Felya]

That meme was never a correct representation of Joker’s goons, because I am sorry, you are not the ringleader. It’s more representative of people who use that meme, to use this instead:



You are the guys being shot after you served your purpose to the jocker. That’s why I loved seeing that meme all the time. There was only 1 (3 if you follow comics... spoiler?) joker and a lot of goons to get their ass kicked by Batman, because Joker was the only clever one. His goons were subverted enough to die for him, but that’s all they were and what made Joker so clever. He got people to chant “Ave Imperator, morituri te salutant” without realizing it.

[Pterodactylus]

... fortunately for Trump, those 87 pages are laying right next to Obama’s real birth cirtificate.

It's also next to that "tremendous" health care plan and the secret plan to destroy ISIS.

[Benggaul]

It is only because we were naive enough to ignore all that, that we still considered you somehow "better" than the likes of china or russia, and thus treated you as an ally. In a way, Europe should thank Donald Trump for showing us, without any room for naive misinterpretation, what the US have become, how unstable, divided and untrustworthy this country really is.

The "American Century" is officially over.

While I agree with just about every one of your points, I think it's also important to keep in mind that nearly all of those were done by the rich 1%. The vast majority of Americans are just like the vast majority of Europeans who just want to live life peacefully and let others do the same. It is difficult not to tar the citizens of a country with the brush used to paint their leadership, but as has been proven time and again in the past couple of years alone the people in power do everything they can to stay in power including corrupting and perverting the election process. Try not to condemn an entire country for the actions of the powerful minority.

[D Luniz]

While I agree with just about every one of your points, I think it's also important to keep in mind that nearly all of those were done by the rich 1%. The vast majority of Americans are just like the vast majority of Europeans who just want to live life peacefully and let others do the same. It is difficult not to tar the citizens of a country with the brush used to paint their leadership, but as has been proven time and again in the past couple of years alone the people in power do everything they can to stay in power including corrupting and perverting the election process. Try not to condemn an entire country for the actions of the powerful minority.

but we (or enough of us) elect those people to office, or used so bullshit "both sides" to excuse laziness and not voting (or standing and watching while someone screws people from being able to vote)

at some point, it does become our fault

"Price of freedom is eternal vigilance" doesn't mean a legion of soldiers ready to kill anyone that is deemed a threat

it means everyone watches and holds to account those we deemed worthy enough to represent our views

[Benggaul]

but we (or enough of us) elect those people to office, or used so bullshit "both sides" to excuse laziness and not voting (or standing and watching while someone screws people from being able to vote)

at some point, it does become our fault

"Price of freedom is eternal vigilance" doesn't mean a legion of soldiers ready to kill anyone that is deemed a threat

it means everyone watches and holds to account those we deemed worthy enough to represent our views

There are absolutely a lot of assholes there, I agree, but they are still the minority. It is thanks to the voter suppression, gerrymandering and outright fucking with the voting process that THEIR votes count for more than they are worth. Take for example the most recent midterms where Democrats absolutely trounced the Republicans in terms of popular vote. Sure, they still took more seats in the House than they have since Nixon was impeached, but looking closely at the numbers involved in the final vote tallies they would absolutely have had even more gains had the GOP not been able to "tinker" with the process at every step.

Most citizens have only one way of influencing their leadership and that is with their vote. When that vote is manipulated the way the GOP has been doing for the past couple decades (not to say Democrats aren't also guilty of this at times, but Republicans are by far the worst offenders) then a lot of those votes are rendered essentially useless. Sure, people can form protests. They can call their representatives. They can donate money to the people they think will do the best job. None of these, however, have anywhere near as much of an impact as their vote.

I realize we're derailing the thread somewhat here so I'll end my part in it here, but I do want to continue to stress that the vast majority of Americans are equally as appalled at this nonsense as those in other countries are. They are, however, nearly equally as powerless to do much to change it without reforms to the election process--which is also in the hands of those already in power.

[Breccia]

A senile old man gets in front of cameras and tells the world Trump was talking Trump Tower Moscow until Nov 2016.

Rudy Giuliani indicated Sunday that President Trump's former longtime attorney, Michael Cohen, may have pursued discussions about a possible Trump Tower Moscow development up to November 2016.

"According to the answer that he gave, it would have covered all the way up to November of 2016," Giuliani said on ABC's "This Week," apparently referring to President Trump's written answers to special counsel Robert Mueller regarding the deal.

Cohen last month pleaded guilty to lying to Congress about plans to build a Trump property in Moscow, plans he initially said were scrapped in January 2016, but actually continued well into the presidential campaign according to his confession.

Giuliani has previously indicated that Trump's account of the Moscow Trump Tower negotiations aligned with Cohen's, but did not reveal specifics about timing.

"Until you actually sit down and answer the questions and you go back and you look at the papers … you’re not going to know what happened," Giuliani said when pressed on ABC.

"That’s why lawyers prepare for those answers," he added.

Hmm. Right up to the election. Funny, he was asked about it over and over and kept saying "no". And I thought Cohen said "June".

[Draco-Onis]

A senile old man gets in front of cameras and tells the world Trump was talking Trump Tower Moscow until Nov 2016.



Hmm. Right up to the election. Funny, he was asked about it over and over and kept saying "no". And I thought Cohen said "June".

Michael Cohen is a liar but everything he said we admit to or even if we did it it's not a crime okay totally not a crime.

[Deleted]

Giuliani ' Collusion is not a crime. It was over with before the election'

the gift that keeps giving.

[Ripster42]

Giuliani ' Collusion is not a crime. It was over with before the election'

the gift that keeps giving.

The best part: trump had his security briefing about russian hacking on aug 17. Guilliani's statements basically accuse trump of aiding and abetting computer crimes.

[Skroe]

I will sit here and tell you the truth about your country, that you have been manipulated to chant for all your life. If you don't like it, you can go press Alt F4.

Our leaders are already treating you differently, and the fact that you don't even know that, speaks volumes about the blindness the average american has for anything outside the borders of their own turf.

Below the Presidential level, relations between the US and Europe are consistent with how they've been for many years. On security issues, they're tighter due to the threat from Russia. Our relations have gone up and down for decades. But the marriage is invaluable and all parties know it.

* Europe is currently negotiating a new Sino-European Trade agreement...aka. the largest trade deal in the history of mankind, that not only encompasses China and the EU, but half the pacific rim countries. Guess whos not even invited? Correct: the orange buffoon and his lickspittles.

You're hilariously overselling this... fiction.

China has been pushing for a BIT and a FTA. Europe has been non-committal to disinterested. And China's neighbors are actively building trade agreements with each other and the US in order to prevent China from being hegenomic in the region.

Did you not pay attention to APEC 2018? The US and allies punched China in the eye there basically.

* Similar agreements have already been made with canada, and south american countries. You have shown a disinterest in cooperative trade and instead favor nationalism and isolation. So, as a consequence, you will be isolated.

Lies. There is no such thing as a Chinese-Canada FTA. They "talked" about it.

These are the only countries China has FTAs with:

https://www.aqsiq.net/fta

Maldives
Georgia
Australia
South Korea
Switzerland
Iceland
Costa Rica
Peru
Singapore
New Zealand
Chile
Pakistan
ASEAN (10+1)
China Hong Kong and Macau


I mean.... they really got us with Costa Rica and Peru. lol.

* The ECB is discussing changes in the global economic politics, with the ultimate goal of establishing the Euro and the Renminbi as lead currencies alongside the Dollar. We have the largest Oil producing countries (other than the US) on board, because they too are sick and tired of getting caught up in your inevitably coming next depression caused by american politics.

They've been talking about this since 2001. Remember when the Euro was going to replace the Dollar as the World's Reserve Currency? Then the SDR? You should. They died terrible deaths as ideas. The Renminbi, which does not float freely, is intrinsically unsuitable for that role.

The truth of the matter is the US Dollar, and the US financial system, is more dominant in 2018 than it was in 2008. Repeated attempts for the world to decouple itself from both have gone less than no where.

In fact, one just has to see how rising US interests rates have caused money and investment to flee vast corners of the earth. Our central bank did that. By itself. Over the last few years.

So tell me when these proposals actually amount to something. I'll wait. Because we've been hearing this crap for nearly 20 years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterhi.../#585adeb1501e
https://www.brookings.edu/events/the...of-the-dollar/

* We have spent the last 10 years isolating our financial institutions from US based systems, and placeing restrictions on trades our banks and companies make with predatory investment firms in the US. We have done so, because we know that your country is too incompetent to reign in the kind of shady financial dealings that caused the last 4 depressions. And as we have seen in the DowJones/NASDAQ quakes of the last few weeks, we were right to do so. Teh next crash is already on the horizon. This time however, we won't be caught up in it, and we won't help you overcome it. You wil be left to marinade in your own stench and greed this time.

See above. In fact the opposite happened. You're lying.

https://www.ft.com/content/6d9ba066-...a-eeb7a9ce36e4

* Companies such as the one I have the pleaure to work for, are booming. We are developing database, cloud computing, and hosting solutions for private companies. Wanna know what one our biggest selling points is? That we are not US based, and do not depend on Google, Apple, Amazon or Microshit. That alone is getting us so many customers who no longer want US intelligence facilitating industrial espionage, it's ridiculous.

I work in the tech industry. I'm a software engineer. I have 15 years of experience. Europe doesn't have a tech sector worthy of the name. Most talent worth a damn comes here.

You don't have the universities. You don't have the finance (outside of London, which also has no tech sector). You don't have the tech hubs. You don't have the regulatory environment.

You're overselling it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...bal-tech-giant

* NATO will soon be you and some representatives we lazily send there. Spending by European countries for NATO is reduced, and currently talks are underway to funnel these funds into a Eropean Military Cooperation force...aka. the first steps towards an armed branch of the EU that is not under control of any one nation in the Union.

Spending by NATO countries is up, and the EU reaffirmed last year that NATO is the primary conduit by which European security is garanteed.
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato...ending-target/
https://www.defensenews.com/smr/nato...ntary-to-nato/

So you're wrong.

* We are currently building the EPS, to eliminate the reliance on the GPS, which is run by the US military. Guess who has no say in how the new system operates? You.

Galileo, which is what you're referring to as "EPIS" (bizarre) is over 15 years behind schedule and 300% over budget, and has only recently achieved Early Operational Capability. It's been a disaster of a program. But it is finally reaching usability.

But here's the thing. Galileo is fully inter-operable with GPS. Basically, receivers on Earth don't discriminate between Galileo or GPS. What was once an independent system evolved into a sister constellation.

The US Military doesn't run GPS. GPS is managed by the National Executive Committee for Space-Based Positioning, Navigation and Timing. The DoD, through the Deputy Secretary of Defense, has a seat at the table, but it is co-chaired by the Deputy Secretary of Transportation, a civilian.

Lastly, Europe agreed to disable Galileo usage by any country the US is in a military conflict with.

Also the now-launching GPS-III is set to be more accurate than Galileo.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/15/fc...s-gps-a-boost/
https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1245569
https://www.spatialsource.com.au/lat...ehind-schedule

These are just a few examples.

Most of which were quarter-truthful or outright lies.

You will still be talked to, don't worry. Just as our mothers and teachers taught us to not exclude the fat, smelly kid from the group in school, we will not ignore you.

Anti-American nonsense at its finest. I'm a diehard Atlanticst. I love Europe and I believe the European Union is the most important political project in the world. But have you seen Europe's problems lately? Good lord. We got our issues. I wouldn't want yours.

But don't think we like, respect or fear you.
You are no longer an ally. You certainly are no longer a friend.

We are actually both, but that's okay. Your personal assent to this is not required.

If you don't like the reality of the US-European relationship, change your government.

Spoiler Alert: You won't.

Maybe some distant day in the future, when your country has regained it's sanity, and behaves like a civilized member of western industrialized society once more, this will change. But as things are now, such times are far away.

Uh huh.

The "American Century" is officially over.

Correct, replaced by the New Cold War between the US and China, of which Europe has little to no role.

The winner of this New Cold War, probably late in this century, will live in either a New American Century or a Chinese Century.

Europe matters. Europe is crucial. But the over-inflated ambitions of the European Union around 2000 have come crashing down into a brutal reality. Europe has to slowly and carefully become "good" regionally, before it's "great" globally. Remember, the European Union is in essence, "just" the latest attempt at an enduring European settlement. All previous attempts have failed. All Europe’s great settlements – Westphalia, Utrecht, Vienna, Versailles, Yalta – have lasted no more than two generations. Will Maastricht join that list? Will the European Union join the Concert of Europe in the dustbin of history? Is it just another Holy Roman Empire, doomed to fail because of its internal contradictions? Maybe. I hope not.

But Europe as a world power? One day. But not today. And not any time soon. This century's main storyline... the only one that matters and the one that all others will be filtered through, is the War for the Future of the World between the United States of America and China.

By the end of it, given what is likely to transpire, a lot of people are going to come to miss the American Century.

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While I agree with just about every one of your points, I think it's also important to keep in mind that nearly all of those were done by the rich 1%. The vast majority of Americans are just like the vast majority of Europeans who just want to live life peacefully and let others do the same. It is difficult not to tar the citizens of a country with the brush used to paint their leadership, but as has been proven time and again in the past couple of years alone the people in power do everything they can to stay in power including corrupting and perverting the election process. Try not to condemn an entire country for the actions of the powerful minority.

You shouldn't. Almost the entire post of the person you were responding to was sheer nonsense.

[FeedsOnDevTears]

I thought I saw this earlier, but can't find it now, so apologies if this is a re-post.


Mueller Exposes Putin's Hold Over Trump

ust over a week ago, on Friday December 7, the Special Counsel’s Office headed by Robert Mueller for the first time outlined in a court filing the grand narrative of the Russia Probe. The court filing revealed what many had long suspected, that Trump and his family had used, or tried to use, his presidential candidacy, and then his presidency, to enhance their own wealth.

We also learned finally what hold Russian President Vladimir Putin has over Trump. It’s not as some suspected, a money laundering episode from more than a decade ago. It was something that happened in real time during the presidential election itself. Thus, Trump himself repeatedly stated since entering the presidential race in June 2015 that he had no business in Russia and no interactions with representatives of Russia. It now turns out that Putin knew what the American people didn’t, namely that Donald Trump was throughout the 2016 presidential primary campaign secretly negotiating to build a huge and lucrative hotel in Moscow, which required the personal support of Vladimir Putin. The fact that Putin knew about Trump’s secret dealings, while the American people didn’t, meant that if Trump didn’t do what Russia wanted, Russia could expose Trump’s lies and so bring him down.

Read the whole thing. It's... damning doesn't due it justice. And this is Forbes.

[Edge-]

Read the whole thing. It's... damning doesn't due it justice. And this is Forbes.

It's an op-ed on Forbes, not Forbes editorial staff proper. Dudes a contributor, a senior one but still a contributor. Just want to clarify that bit since Forbes has a ton of contributors and it gets annoyingly confusing.

[Deleted]

While I agree with just about every one of your points, I think it's also important to keep in mind that nearly all of those were done by the rich 1%. The vast majority of Americans are just like the vast majority of Europeans who just want to live life peacefully and let others do the same. It is difficult not to tar the citizens of a country with the brush used to paint their leadership, but as has been proven time and again in the past couple of years alone the people in power do everything they can to stay in power including corrupting and perverting the election process. Try not to condemn an entire country for the actions of the powerful minority.

Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite.

Every nation has the gouvernment it deserves.

- Joseph de Maistre, French Philosopher


Make no mistake, this 1% exists here too. The difference is: Enough people in my country vote for liberals, socialists, workers parties, center-conservatives, green parties and generally SANE people to not have them have their way.

In your country however, almost half the populace happily votes for the people who spent the last 50 years screwing them over, time and time again, while wearing stupid baseball caps and screaming MAGAAAAAAAAAA like a herd of sheep.

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I work in the tech industry. I'm a software engineer. I have 15 years of experience. Europe doesn't have a tech sector worthy of the name. Most talent worth a damn comes here.

You don't have the universities. You don't have the finance (outside of London, which also has no tech sector). You don't have the tech hubs. You don't have the regulatory environment.

You're overselling it.

Ah US fantasies of superiority.

Always hilarious.

Sure dude, we have no tech industry worth the name. That's why we are hiring left and right, and why I make 75.000 a year...and that is a) AFTER taxation, and b) EUROS.

The rest of your post is not even worth responding to. Cerry picked single articles from mostly-right leaning "newspapers", and nonsense like "they talk about it is not IT HAPPENS".

A sad attempt, and a failed one.

[Mormolyce]

Schiff explains why he wants to obtain Trump's Deutsche Bank records
"The concern about Deutsche Bank is they have a history of laundering Russian money," Schiff said.

Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff, the likely incoming chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, told NBC's Chuck Todd on "Meet the Press" Sunday that he wants to obtain President Donald Trump's records with Deutsche Bank because they could expose "a form of compromise" with Russia.

Schiff told The New Yorker in a profile published last week that he plans to subpoena information on Trump's transactions with the bank because of the German financial institution's longtime relationship with Trump and its past ties to Russian money laundering. Schiff, who Trump has referred to as "little Adam Schitt," said the answer to whether the president was involved with Russian money laundering could exist in the Deutsche Bank records.

"Well, the concern about Deutsche Bank is that they have a history of laundering Russian money," Schiff told Todd on Sunday. "And this, apparently, was the one bank that was willing to do business with the Trump Organization."

"If this is a form of compromise, it needs to be exposed," he added.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...m_npd_nn_tw_np

The House Dems are going straight for Deutsche Bank next year. Prepare for the frog to get throttled like it's Return of the Jedi.

[Kheirn]

Ah US fantasies of superiority.

Always hilarious.

The rest of your post is not even worth responding to. Cerry picked single articles from mostly-right leaning "newspapers", and nonsense like "they talk about it is not IT HAPPENS".

A sad attempt, and a failed one.

Skroe is one of the most informed posters on this forum. I'm both European and a democrat, but I have complete respect for Skroe and what he brings to the discussions. I've never seen him even go near the "US is superior to all"-fantasy which I can't stand, he simply puts things straight and tells it how it is, with credible sources to back it up as well. When Skroe speaks, you listen.

Your posts have nothing to back them up, neither from sources or your own credibility.

[Deleted]

Skroe is one of the most informed posters on this forum. I'm both European and a democrat, but I have complete respect for Skroe and what he brings to the discussions. I've never seen him even go near the "US is superior to all"-fantasy which I can't stand, he simply puts things straight and tells it how it is, with credible sources to back it up as well. When Skroe speaks, you listen.

Your posts have nothing to back them up, neither from sources or your own credibility.

I don't give a damn about some internet guys irrelevant forum-fame, or the admiration he receives from his fans. As I have pointed out, this isn't your facebook echo-chamber.

To me, all that matters is fact, and credibility of source material. I have pointed out why his post doesn't hold up to any standards in that regards, and didn't even waste time by pointing out his multiple attemps at depicting me as a liar, and insulting me, without any proof for his words, just spewing fortzh his opinion.

Also, this sentence:

"I've never seen him even go near the "US is superior to all"-fantasy"

...is laughable, considering that I quoted him doing exactly that.

If you don't believe my words, fine, I am not here to convince you, or anyone else for that matter. The fact that my words trigger you guys to such desperate responses in itself, is a sign that my words hit right on the mark: A country used to believing itself to be superior, now facing the very real prospect of becoming "just another country".

[Dendrek]

Go start your own thread if all you want to do is bash the US, dude. You're attempting to derail the thread with inflammatory and trolly rhetoric that has nothing to do with this topic.

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Reported and ignored.

[Skroe]

I don't give a damn about some internet guys irrelevant forum-fame, or the admiration he receives from his fans. As I have pointed out, this isn't your facebook echo-chamber.

To me, all that matters is fact, and credibility of source material. I have pointed out why his post doesn't hold up to any standards in that regards, and didn't even waste time by pointing out his multiple attemps at depicting me as a liar, and insulting me, without any proof for his words, just spewing fortzh his opinion.

Every single one of my responses to the things you went through, that I itemized with quotes, was answered with at least one link from a reliable source that buttressed my point.

That is unless you think the Financial Times, Bloomberg, Brookings, Forbes, Politico and so forth don't constitute solid supporting evidence to my counter augment? Especially when you provided none?

Also, this sentence:

"I've never seen him even go near the "US is superior to all"-fantasy"

...is laughable, considering that I quoted him doing exactly that.

You misunderstand. There are countless things Europe does far better than the US. I'm not going to sit here and pretend American automobile manufacturing is anywhere close to the level of of quality or technology of European manufactures, for example. Another example I light to cite is how the European Space Agency (via Airbus)''s ATV space cargo vehicle is being transformed into the European Service Module, the life support and propulsion element of the new US space vehicle, Orion. The Orion capsule + the ESM make the vehicle. NASA originally had planned to build its own service module, but the ATV was already long since done, flying, and just in need of modest modifications to suite a new job.

These are but a couple things Europe is great at. The entire list is very long. I'd say the greatest thing though is the European Union as an idea. As troubled as it is... as in need of reform as it is... it still remains the most important political project in governance since the founding of the United States, and it must succeed because it is the model of regional integration that can be applied across the world. Its failure would discredit something that has made the world better for hundreds of millions of Europeans, and whose republication and leadership would make the world better for billions of people.

Historically, if America in the 18th and 19th century could show democracy was a viable form of government in a word of kings, queens and empires, the EU could show the world how entire regions once torn by war and horror can become interdependent and cooperate for the benefit of all.

And you want to crown yourself the top at tech when that is Europe's true gift to the world? Why are you aiming so low? There is no technology Americans could invent that would improve the lives of people than the European invention of the the European Union that works.

But we're not going to sit here and pretend Europe is a peer in the US tech industry. Because that is not true. It is not. There are a lot of reasons for that. Maybe it will be one day, but not any time soon.

It does nobody good to play in the world of make believe.

If you don't believe my words, fine, I am not here to convince you, or anyone else for that matter. The fact that my words trigger you guys to such desperate responses in itself, is a sign that my words hit right on the mark: A country used to believing itself to be superior, now facing the very real prospect of becoming "just another country".

I mean, keep telling yourself that if that affirmation is what you need to get you through the day. Reality is quite different.

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Ah US fantasies of superiority.

Always hilarious.

Sure dude, we have no tech industry worth the name. That's why we are hiring left and right, and why I make 75.000 a year...and that is a) AFTER taxation, and b) EUROS.

The rest of your post is not even worth responding to. Cerry picked single articles from mostly-right leaning "newspapers", and nonsense like "they talk about it is not IT HAPPENS".

A sad attempt, and a failed one.

See above for my response to most of your post.

But not to make too fine point of it, but 84k is what I made out of college, many years ago, in my first industry job. If you're not that, you're underpaid. At least as far as Americans are concerned.

Lots of companies are hiring. That doesn't mean anything.

Frankly, the way you talk makes it sound like you don't have much industry experience.

[fengosa]

Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite.

Every nation has the gouvernment it deserves.

- Joseph de Maistre, French Philosopher

Where have I sign that recently...somebody signature or something. Maybe it was here,

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Orange-Man-Bad!

Looks like we got ourselves a verified NPC on our hands.

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Go start your own thread if all you want to do is bash the US, dude. You're attempting to derail the thread with inflammatory and trolly rhetoric that has nothing to do with this topic.

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Reported and ignored.

Yeah, I can still see Chuckles posts but this guy might make it to my ignore lists.