1. #14921
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Damn... you're actually all relying on Cohen to tell the truth for once? How desperate people must be.

    Cohen is a criminal and compulsive lying sack of shit, with no moral credibility, who would literally throw his grandmother under the bus for a dollar and make a deal with whatever devil was making him the best offer that week. I mean.. he made an entire career out of being a criminal, "fixer" and compulsive lying sack of shit,

    I've no doubt Trump's done a lot of dodgy things and many an illegal deal. I actually agree with the sentiment that just having worked with Cohen for so long so closely is as good as evidence of criminal wrongdoing..

    But actually believing that Cohen is telling the truth about ANYTHING is the very definition of confirmation bias.
    Why would he lie about trump committing even more crimes.

    "Yes, your honor, on top of the murder and assault charges the prosecutors laid out against me and my client, may I also add cannibalism, prostitution, and tearing off that DO NOT REMOVE tag from pillows."

    This is not a good thing for Donald Trump.
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  2. #14922
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Sucks to be a Trumpkin this week, eh?
    Yes yes, I'm a Trumpster, you're a Trumpster, they're all Trumpsters, everyone who doesn't say EXACTLY what you want to hear is a Trumpster

    jeez I'd forgotten how much of a circle-jerk this subforum was..


    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    That would be the consistent thing to say. Not the... ‘he lied before, so he will lie again’... .
    Now you're just proving my point about the confirmation bias. He's been lying professionally for decades, and has the ego to match that mentality, the idea that he wouldn't ever lie again "'cos he knows Mueller would catch him.." is laughable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    They are relying on the evidence that will come with his testimony that corroborates it.... There is an endless line of people who will tell you that Trump is a lying, cheating, traitorous sack of shit. Very few of them, however, have been in the position to see it firsthand and have hard copies of documents that directly demonstrate it all.
    The evidence will have to be him pointing to external sources to himself, or literally to where the bodies are hidden. ANYTHING direct evidence from him is suspect. Remember - they've already raided his offices and home and stripped and catlogued all the evidence within, so a secret notepad of minutes appearing now will be dubious as hell. You don't think he's faked evidence before in all his decades as a "fixer"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Why would he lie about trump committing even more crimes...
    For future leniancy? For a potential future book deal? To be honest, it wouldn't entirely suprise me if he was still working for Trump and there's even dodgier things afoot than we realise.
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  3. #14923
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    From Trump ally Matt Gaetz https://twitter.com/mattgaetz/status...03846386835456

    GOP Rep. Matt Gaetz appears to threaten Michael Cohen on Twitter

    [i] Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) tweeted a threat to President Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen on the eve of his public testimony before the House Oversight Committee.
    Good fucking grief...that is jaw-droppingly unsubtle, blatant witness tampering from a sitting elected official.

    If nothing is done about Gaetz' comments, the US is truly beyond saving.

  4. #14924
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Now you're just proving my point about the confirmation bias. He's been lying professionally for decades, and has the ego to match that mentality, the idea that he wouldn't ever lie again "'cos he knows Mueller would catch him.." is laughable.
    Why do you know he is lying? What changed? If he is stupid enough to lie again, how do you think Muller knew he lied before?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  5. #14925
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Why do you know he is lying? What changed? If he is stupid enough to lie again, how do you think Muller knew he lied before?
    I don't know he is lying. There's a good chance he is telling the truth.

    I DO know though that he's completely unreliable source, to the point nothing he says or does should ever be trusted.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  6. #14926
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-...will-leave-him

    One day before Michael Cohen appears before the House Oversight Committee, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL), a conservative firebrand from Florida and a White House ally, accused President Trump’s former lawyer of straying from his marriage and suggested that his wife would leave him once he goes to prison.

    “Hey @MichaelCohen212 - Do your wife & father-in-law know about your girlfriends? Maybe tonight would be a good time for that chat. I wonder if she’ll remain faithful when you’re in prison. She’s about to learn a lot…”

    Gaetz’s tweet, which appeared to be based on nothing of inherent knowledge, gave off the veneer of a thinly-veiled threat to Cohen in the hours before he is set to discuss his time working as Trump’s right-hand man and his involvement in hush-money payments to alleged mistresses.

    But in a phone interview shortly after he posted the item, the Florida Republican insisted that he was not engaging in witness intimidation at all.

    “No,” he stressed, “it is challenging the veracity and character of a witness. We do it everyday. We typically do it during people's testimony.”

    “This is what it looks like to compete in the marketplace of ideas,” he added.

    Not surprisingly, at least one prominent lawyer saw the matter slightly differently.

    “It’s that last line that seems really problematic,” emailed Stephen Vladeck, a professor of law at the University of Texas School of Law, “‘She’s about to learn a lot…’ What is the test implied in that statement, as opposed to the insinuation that as a result of his testimony, his wife is going to come into negative information about him?”
    What's going on in Trumpworld with Republicans? Oh nothing, just a little bit of casual witness intimidation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    I don't know he is lying. There's a good chance he is telling the truth.

    I DO know though that he's completely unreliable source, to the point nothing he says or does should ever be trusted.
    Up until now, I'd agree. But now he's in Mueller's crosshairs and he knows he can't fuck up, especially after seeing what happened to Manafort. If he lies, he's breaking additional laws and likely violating any agreement he had with the Mueller team, leaving him in prison for far, far longer than 3 years.

    This is a concerted and coordinated effort by conservatives to portray him as unreliable to undermine his testimony. After years and years of him being a close and trusted Trump confidant and partner, and trustworthy enough for plenty of Republicans to engage and interact with.

  7. #14927
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    Good fucking grief...that is jaw-droppingly unsubtle, blatant witness tampering from a sitting elected official.

    If nothing is done about Gaetz' comments, the US is truly beyond saving.
    I mean, nothing has been done about Trump's or Jr's witness tampering.

  8. #14928
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    The evidence will have to be him pointing to external sources to himself, or literally to where the bodies are hidden. ANYTHING direct evidence from him is suspect. Remember - they've already raided his offices and home and stripped and catlogued all the evidence within, so a secret notepad of minutes appearing now will be dubious as hell. You don't think he's faked evidence before in all his decades as a "fixer"?
    Annnnd anything they've already collected is there to corroborate--or disprove--his story. I seriously doubt he's going to tell the people anything they don't already know. He's there to give a first-person account of things as they happened and believe me, at this point they most likely know just about everything. This is just the formal question and answer session to cap off the "You are totally fucked" shit sandwich he's eating. If he lies, they'll know. If he "faked evidence", they already know. Michael Cohen is not outwitting anybody in this scenario. He'll be telling the truth or he's even further fucked (yes, it's still possible).

  9. #14929
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Yes yes, I'm a Trumpster, you're a Trumpster, they're all Trumpsters, everyone who doesn't say EXACTLY what you want to hear is a Trumpster

    Now you're just proving my point about the confirmation bias. He's been lying professionally for decades, and has the ego to match that mentality, the idea that he wouldn't ever lie again "'cos he knows Mueller would catch him.." is laughable.

    The evidence will have to be him pointing to external sources to himself, or literally to where the bodies are hidden. ANYTHING direct evidence from him is suspect. Remember - they've already raided his offices and home and stripped and catlogued all the evidence within, so a secret notepad of minutes appearing now will be dubious as hell. You don't think he's faked evidence before in all his decades as a "fixer"?

    For future leniancy? For a potential future book deal? To be honest, it wouldn't entirely suprise me if he was still working for Trump and there's even dodgier things afoot than we realise.
    It's adorable that Trumpkins still don't understand how the law, and criminal investigations, work. Remember, Trump hired him over a decade ago. Trusted him with everything. But now that he's turning his back on your Dear Leader, he's not trustworthy?

    You do realize that the House investigation is separate from the Mueller one, right? Cohen is probably providing information the GOP backed Mueller investigation already has. And if Cohen lies to Congress, he gets more jail time and his plea deal is void.

    But please, do go on about your ignorance of the law and investigations.

  10. #14930
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    It's adorable that Trumpkins still don't understand how the law, and criminal investigations, work. Remember, Trump hired him over a decade ago. Trusted him with everything. But now that he's turning his back on your Dear Leader, he's not trustworthy?

    You do realize that the House investigation is separate from the Mueller one, right? Cohen is probably providing information the GOP backed Mueller investigation already has. And if Cohen lies to Congress, he gets more jail time and his plea deal is void.

    But please, do go on about your ignorance of the law and investigations.
    Mueller is like that one guy from Game of Thrones (I haven't seen all of it, and I haven't read the books yet, so I can't recall the name). Someone he knew was leaking information. So he just took everyone he suspected, told each of them a different lie and told them not to tell anyone, and waited to see which lie made its way around.
    Last edited by Stormspark; 2019-02-26 at 11:26 PM.

  11. #14931
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspark View Post
    Mueller is like that one guy from Game of Thrones (I haven't seen all of it, and I haven't read the books, so I can't recall the name). Someone he knew was leaking information. So he just took everyone he suspected, told each of them a different lie and told them not to tell anyone, and waited to see which lie made its way around.
    Pretty sure it was Tyrion Lannister who did that.

  12. #14932
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    From Trump ally Matt Gaetz https://twitter.com/mattgaetz/status...03846386835456

    GOP Rep. Matt Gaetz appears to threaten Michael Cohen on Twitter

    Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) tweeted a threat to President Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen on the eve of his public testimony before the House Oversight Committee.

    Why it matters: Cohen originally postponed his appearance before various congressional committees in part because of "threats against his family" from Trump and his attorney Rudy Giuliani.


    --------------------------

    Good gods, they must be terrified of what Cohen might say...I wasn't expecting much myself, but...damn.
    This is amazing! Well they follow their glorious leader blindly by openly threatening a witness.

    I can't believe where our Representatives are today. But he is a Republican and a trumpkin til he dies.

    Now I know some of you will question my Woke Independent stand. So as usual I say remember when a Democrat does this, you can't say bleep. Also one day it may be the party and President you don't agree, who decide to give our democracy over to authoritarianism.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  13. #14933
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    I don't know he is lying. There's a good chance he is telling the truth.

    I DO know though that he's completely unreliable source, to the point nothing he says or does should ever be trusted.
    Well, if he lies then Mueller will be there to charge him with lying again and add more time to his prison sentence. So we'll know pretty soon after whether or not Cohen is telling the truth this time.

  14. #14934
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    The evidence will have to be him pointing to external sources to himself, or literally to where the bodies are hidden. ANYTHING direct evidence from him is suspect. Remember - they've already raided his offices and home and stripped and catlogued all the evidence within, so a secret notepad of minutes appearing now will be dubious as hell. You don't think he's faked evidence before in all his decades as a "fixer"?
    Congrats on your promotion to be the person who decides what the evidence will have to be!

    Did the House do that? The House raided his house and got all the evidence? Or did you forget that the GOP initiated Mueller investigation is separate.

  15. #14935
    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    Now I know some of you will question my Woke Independent stand.
    We don’t, because everybody knows “Woke Indipendent” translates to “Political coward who hides his true thoughts because he knows morality and reality and facts are against him”. But I digress...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    So as usual I say remember when a Democrat does this, you can't say bleep.
    So, as usual, I say “Show men when that’s happened prior”. If you’re so “woke” go find a confirmed instance of a Democrat openly issuing witness intimidation and threatening personal family controversy via twitter or other media source against a witness to a major political coverup.

    For the Dumbass Dump regime, however, this is known as “Tuesday”. >_<

    But to dare your bluff, feel free to bookmark this and use it in future - cus you know it ain’t gonna happen.

  16. #14936
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    Now I know some of you will question my Woke Independent stand. So as usual I say remember when a Democrat does this, you can't say bleep. Also one day it may be the party and President you don't agree, who decide to give our democracy over to authoritarianism.
    Where has there been evidence of a Dem doing that? Please, oh "woke'd" one, enlighten us with your documentation. We'll wait.

  17. #14937
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Where has there been evidence of a Dem doing that? Please, oh "woke'd" one, enlighten us with your documentation. We'll wait.
    It was done in jest to mock the real woke ones. Reread his post.

  18. #14938
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Damn... you're actually all relying on Cohen to tell the truth for once? How desperate people must be.

    Cohen is a criminal and compulsive lying sack of shit, with no moral credibility, who would literally throw his grandmother under the bus for a dollar and make a deal with whatever devil was making him the best offer that week. I mean.. he made an entire career out of being a criminal, "fixer" and compulsive lying sack of shit,

    I've no doubt Trump's done a lot of dodgy things and many an illegal deal. I actually agree with the sentiment that just having worked with Cohen for so long so closely is as good as evidence of criminal wrongdoing..

    But actually believing that Cohen is telling the truth about ANYTHING is the very definition of confirmation bias.
    First, and foremost, Prosecutors have found Cohen's 70 hours of cooperation he's provided to be, in their words, both truthful and very helpful.

    In other words, what you or I think of Cohen is irrelevant. The people who are going to put your President behind bars found him to be a crucial asset that corroborated what they already knew.

    Secondly, re-read what I said. I said "If there is evidence of this, and prosecutors believe they have a case against Trump".

    The case against your President is and never would be based upon the testimony of one man. But one man can certainly get the ball rolling. Evidently, Cohen has, and that should terrify you.

    Lastly I don't think you know what "Confirmation Bias" is. I'm not some neutral party that's keeping my mind open. If there is a but the smallest of rocks to throw at this illegitimate President and his shitshow of an administration, I'm going to wind up my fast ball, so to speak.

    If Cohen can and did provide evidence to Prosecutors that Trump committed crimes while in office, and that evidence can be corroborated, as any case would require, Trump must go, or the United States legitimately has no point to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    You could replace every "Cohen" with "Trump" in that diatribe and it would be true.
    The problem with your position here is that NOBODY is relying on Cohen to tell the truth. They are relying on the evidence that will come with his testimony (Mueller would also not take Cohen at his word) that corroborates it. If it was simply a matter of Cohen SAYING "Trump is crooked" without any hard evidence to back up his claim then Mueller would not have spent the resources he has to get him under heel.

    There is an endless line of people who will tell you that Trump is a lying, cheating, traitorous sack of shit. Very few of them, however, have been in the position to see it firsthand and have hard copies of documents that directly demonstrate it all.
    It's amazing you even had to write that at @rogueMatthias. It's like he hasn't been paying any attention the last two years. Specifically to the Manafort trial where Rick Gates was also an "unreliable" Witness.


    @rogueMatthias, wanna know who else are liars that prosecutors have to work with to nab bigger fish? Mob henchmen.

    Wanna know what does in the mob, what did in Manafort, and what's going to do in Gates? The paper trail.

    And what is Cohen evidently going to produce tomorrow? And as a matter of fact has already produced for the SDNY and the Mueller team? A paper trail.

    And that's how your President, Donald J Trump, MAGAMan himself, because Individual-1, unindicted co-conspirator who is going to spend the rest of his crap life fighting to stay out of prison.

  19. #14939
    Also, since this guy put himself in Mueller's crosshairs a few months back, Jacob Wohl, who said he had a witness that says that she was sexually assaulted by Robert Mueller, held a press conference about it, and his witness didn't show up? He has been permanently banned from Twitter for making bot accounts and admitting it to USA Today. Here is the article where he admits it: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/2917226002/

    Here is the articles after his banning for running bots and breaking Twitter's rules: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...im/2995037002/

    He should be lucky he isn't in jail for trying to obstruct justice. @Skroe @Breccia.

  20. #14940
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    He should be lucky he isn't in jail for trying to obstruct justice.
    Probably not.

    Wohl is in no position of power here. Slander or libel maybe, but making up shit about Mueller doesn't really sound like obstruction. Of course, committing slander or libel against Mueller is criminally stupid.

    That's as opposed to, say, Trump or one of his friends, who are in a position of power, saying "Hey you witness with evidence against Trump? You better not testify, or I'll use my position of power to attack you!" Or burying evidence, falsifying an official legal document, etc.

    Now, maybe you could push the case that, by attacking Mueller and painting him as a criminal, he was trying to influence the investigation. And, yeah, I can see that angle. I just don't think it's the most direct description of the action he took. Wohl is just a liar, and not a very successful one. He has about as much influence on the investigation as my dick. Treat him as the liar he is, and move on.

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