1. #16001
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    From Mueller. That's the key thing. Anything that's been farmed out can still have indictments come out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Those are separate and likely not a part of the report.
    Right, which is why it would be pretty weird to see DoJ saying "no more indictments in the election interference investigation." As I said previously, this is likely just a status report on russian interference, and not interference as a whole. Besides, current DoJ policy says you can't indict trump while he's president. So anyone reading into it that this clears trump hasn't been paying attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  2. #16002
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Hold up.

    Something doesn't add up. The Mueller Grand Jury still has sealed documents/indictments that were never acted upon.
    Mueller's been farming out the indictments to standing DoJ divisions and Attorneys. It's been one of the ways he protected the investigation.

    One of the earliest mischaracterizations that was made with the Special Counsel's Office was that it was, in effect, like Ken Starr's office, a mini-DoJ-for-Trump. In actually, the entire time Mueller operated it as an investigative group, that, with a couple of exceptions, when it got something, distributed it to parts of the DoJ that regularly handle that sort of thing.

    Basically Mueller saw his job as investigative, not prosecutorial, by in large.

    Which means those Sealed Indictments will still be acted on, by the DoJ itself.

  3. #16003
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Hold up.

    Something doesn't add up. The Mueller Grand Jury still has sealed documents/indictments that were never acted upon.
    Those are still there I believe, there's just no more coming.

  4. #16004
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Those are still there I believe, there's just no more coming.
    Again, this is a bad reading of the facts. As we don't know what evidence those cases could turn up, any speculation about "more indictments" is very premature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  5. #16005
    Welp, so much for that.

  6. #16006
    Unfortunately the waiting isn't over even if we get to see the full report. We get to enjoy another 1-2 years of waiting for the other investigations to conclude.

  7. #16007
    For the first time I'll say it - @Skroe, don't get banned! Want to see everybody's reactions if/when info starts to release! =D Don't think the power of the Skroeban™ can add to anything else at this point! ;P

  8. #16008
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    No. I'm saying a long running concern of mine is that the public and the intelligence community are operating on two different wavelengths.

    For the public, anything and everything the intelligence community has with regards to Trump-Russia would be relevant in filling in the blanks. And there will be blanks. Big ones.

    For the intelligence community, they're more concerned historically with parochialism (inter-agency rivalries) or more generally "big picture". They wouldn't want to burn a source close to Putin in order to inform the public, because they think that source would be useful to them in the future. We've seen pretty much exactly this with the 9/11 Comission report, followed by subsequent revelations.

    For me, I think this is big enough for all-hands-on deck for the entire US government. The report will only exacerbate the "reality split" Trump has already brought about. The more the IC shows, the better it will be. The worst possible world is if in 2022, President Biden declassified the entire report, and it turns out that Trump should have been prosecuted for T reason when he got off with a bad news cycle, because the IC sat on something.
    I am a lot less confident that Biden, or any democrat, will defeat Trump than I was a while back. If Biden, or any democrat, wins, well there IS no worst case scenario and I really won't care so much what happens to Trump, especially if the Senate is also taken over by the democrats. In this case I would be more interested in moving the US forward rather than revisiting the Trump nightmare.

  9. #16009
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    Unfortunately the waiting isn't over even if we get to see the full report. We get to enjoy another 1-2 years of waiting for the other investigations to conclude.
    ...not to mention sentencings being passed, ect. Manafort alone is already probably going to be a 2-year series of courtroom dates. >_<

  10. #16010
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Again, this is a bad reading of the facts. As we don't know what evidence those cases could turn up, any speculation about "more indictments" is very premature.
    Those are different cases not handled by Mueller. The word is there are no more Mueller indictments, that's it. Nothing about the existing sealed ones. Nothing about the other investigations.

  11. #16011
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Those are different cases not handled by Mueller. The word is there are no more Mueller indictments, that's it. Nothing about the existing sealed ones. Nothing about the other investigations.
    Again, some of those cases are cases still being handled by mueller. Stone, manafort, and the "mystery foreign corporation" are all being handled by mueller, and those are only the ones we know of (as they're not under seal) off the top of my head.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  12. #16012
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    I am a lot less confident that Biden, or any democrat, will defeat Trump than I was a while back. If Biden, or any democrat, wins, well there IS no worst case scenario and I really won't care so much what happens to Trump, especially if the Senate is also taken over by the democrats. In this case I would be more interested in moving the US forward rather than revisiting the Trump nightmare.
    If you don't handle what has happened before you, it can end up again in your future in another fashion. We should move forward while also handling what is behind as us well.

    We would have to address the Trump stuff along with everything else that happened and the Republicans backing him as they will still be holding office and if they aren't held to account they have no reason not to do it again in the future if they think they can get away with it if they personally don't suffer much when it backfires beyond lost votes and potentially office.

  13. #16013
    Keep in mind... While there may be no more criminal indictments originating from Mueller, the underlying evidence may be very explosive. They may not meet criminal standards or Trump can't be indicted, but they can still show really shady activity.

  14. #16014
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    To offer a simple example of what I mean, if they have have people working for them inside Vladimir Putin's inner circle, which is widely believed to be the case, this is the time they out and say it... not hold onto it for a rainy day. The rainy day is here.
    Skroe you are an intelligent man with a good head over his shoulders, and your posts here are one of the few things worth reading on this forum and I mean this in all seriousness.

    The people saying such crap that you rely on for information, and I personally read quite a lot myself on these mattes, aren't exactly the most reliable sources that you should count on. There's an entire industry out there based on speculation of such things, but it's proven extremely biased and has gotten quite a lot of things wrong over the years.

    Just something I wanted to point out. Sure it's possible the IC has a mole inside Putin's inner circle that's made up of people from Russia's national security apparatus but that's as likely as the Earth having two moons.

    The worst possible outcome in my view, isn't that if Trump gets off light here because Barr runs interference. That'll be a delay, at best. It's if we find out 10 years from now, when the report is declassified, that the confidential report, redacted by the IC was far far worse than the public one, and that if the confidential report was out, Trump would be asking for asylum in the Russian embassy.
    If Trump did do the things you believe he did we'd have known about it by now. There's always someone that spills the truth when the institutions try to keep it hidden. It's precisely because of this I always found the notion of him being a Russian agent farcical, since we'd have known long ago if he was.

    Even so one thing worth talking about, suppose there was a legitimate criminal case that Trump had obstructed justice and he could be charged for it..well in that case I wouldn't expect Mueller to go after him directly.

    It's related to what the FBI has done in Eastern Europe. See one of the conditions for Eastern European countries to join NATO and the EU was that we'd tackle corruption seriously and the FBI was heavily involved in setting that up. In Romania we have a national anti-corruption directorate: DNA as we call.

    The way it does things, and again with heavy involvement of the FBI here, is that it rarely if ever goes after top political leaders to put them in jail that are corrupt, and we know for certain without doubt that they are ALL corrupt, rather they strategically throw in prison some lower ranking party members, especially those engaging in massive acts of obvious corruption. This doesn't solve the corruption problem short term but it does make the situation manageable and the country more stable.

    Why does it matter? Because when the whole system was being put in place in the early 2000s the Director of the FBI was Robert Mueller. So sure he could have nailed Trump to the wall if he had really wanted to, but did he want to? Or did he make strategic decisions in who he went after and why?

    The world doesn't begin or end with Donald Trump. Anyone who believed for certain Mueller's purpose, or the outcome of his investigation, was that Trump was going to get nailed to floor was an utter fool.
    Last edited by CostinR; 2019-03-22 at 10:25 PM.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  15. #16015
    Honestly, it's better the report wrapped up now rather than in 2020. If there is any fuckery by Barr, legal fights can happen now rather than potentially painting Democrats as just being driven by removing Trump.

    I don't like fact that stuff has already started to leak, but we'll get the whole story, which I don't think will be good, in the coming months.

    His approval rating is still going to be awful and he's still a terrible President. He won't be buoyed by this for more than a week before he does something stupid or more information comes out.

  16. #16016
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Skroe you are an intelligent man with a good head over his shoulders, and your posts here are one of the few things worth reading on this forum and I mean this in all seriousness.

    The people saying such crap that you rely on for information, and I personally read quite a lot myself on these mattes, aren't exactly the most reliable sources that you should count on. There's an entire industry out there based on speculation of such things, but it's proven extremely biased and has gotten quite a lot of things wrong over the years.
    Ummm.... where the hell do you get off telling me, how I work? Are you fucking kidding me? That's my response for your arrogant presumption that you have the slightest clue about the "the people" I rely on for my information.

    I'm extremely discerning in my sources. I don't buy into cranks. I don't buy into rumors. And I certainly don't take anything at face value. The people I rely on typically have served in government, are in academia, or are ex-intelligence community people. And they're straight shooters.

    Don't you dare presume how I operate ever again.

    I ignored the rest of your post. Didn't read it and I don't care. This is a moment for Americans. You aren't one.

  17. #16017
    lock him up lock him up.


    I love the mantra now is "big nothing burger"

    and yet they already nailed what 7 people and 50 million dollars in fines.

    8 years + of investigations and they got nothing before this

  18. #16018
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I don't buy into cranks. I don't buy into rumors. And I certainly don't take anything at face value. The people I rely on typically have served in government, are in academia, or are ex-intelligence community people. And they're straight shooters.

    Don't you dare presume how I operate ever again.
    I presumed that you relied on exactly those kind of people, and yet they've proven many times that they too aren't immune to their own biases getting injected into their views and many of them predicted exactly the wrong things on foreign policy over the years because they wanted certain things to be true, or were trying to sell a certain viewpoint that they held.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  19. #16019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    This is pretty much what I'm expecting. As I've mentioned numerous times before, Trump always keeps a few people between himself and his dirty deeds (see: Cohen), so I'm thinking there's not going to be any damning evidence in the report directly tying him to Russia. Mayyyyybe one or two other high-ranking individuals get some indictments thrown their way, but I don't see this being the smoking gun.

    My big fear from all of this is that, the above being true, Trump's popularity among the absolute idiots will swell because they haven't been paying attention to all of the OTHER shit he's been doing since he's been in office and he'll ride that wave through to 2020. You can bet your life it's going to be something he talks about with his dumb, smug face every chance he gets...and the GOP will eat it up. This wouldn't make that much of a difference if not for the fact the extensive gerrymandering the GOP has done will guarantee they win as long as their minority unifies.
    Hmm, for it to be done this early (quite a bit earlier than I was expecting).. I feel like it's not going to be as damning to Trump as a lot of people are hoping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    Senator Moore will be sitting in that seat and I hope it burns you to your core.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Trump did it so it's good. I put my faith in a strong political figure because I lack self-esteem and feel threatened by a changing world. Whoever stands against him is bad because I do not understand their arguments and I have a simple tribalistic mindset created through the consumption of right-wing media.

  20. #16020
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    I presumed that you relied on exactly those kind of people, and yet they've proven many times that they too aren't immune to their own biases getting injected into their views and many of them predicted exactly the wrong things on foreign policy over the years because they wanted certain things to be true, or were trying to sell a certain viewpoint that they held.
    Honestly Costin, you're the dude despite getting nuked from orbit over Trump's relationship with Putin undermining your own nationa,l security on more instances than I can count, you're the fraud who never misses a beat to not look like the guy-who-got-conned the biggest. You were foolish for supporting Trump before. Your justifications were bullshit to even a half-informed person. You're even worse now, because of everything else Russia has done since, and specifically what has NOT happened.

    The problem isn't with those sources "biases". The problem is you fundamentally have no idea what you're talking about and just don't like what they say because they repeatedly do that.

    You have nothing to contribute and are ignored until further notice.

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