1. #16941
    You know, I think it still holds true, we have to see what the report says, like many have been saying since the beginning, considering that the only person saying things have said "maybe, maybe not" on the subject on it.

    In the end if Trump really did nothing then it is a good thing that we were able to uncover lots of corruption and removed those people from the government in any way.

    At the end of the day Trump is still a terrible person, done near zero when it comes to positive effects on the country, and he still has about 20 other investigations for all of the other things he has done. He is full on corrupt and we'll only see more failure moving forward.

    We do have one issue that should be changed and that a president should be indicted while sitting. It's a little crazy to think that the president is above the law, which in fact he/she is not.

    With that said I'm sure Trump will be elected again, but that's because people are self destructive.
    Last edited by Dontrike; 2019-03-25 at 12:09 AM.

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  2. #16942
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Except for the hundreds of indictments, and numerous guilty pleas and prison sentences, but other than that, nothing.
    NO collusion.

    THE END.

  3. #16943
    Legendary! Thepersona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    25 of those were for members of the Russian version of 4chan

    Good LUCK getting them into court
    And still it found at least 2-3 very high profile people guilty, or in the works of that (Flynn, Manafort and Stone)
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  4. #16944
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    NO collusion.

    THE END.
    Cool.

    Let's talk about obstruction of justice and tax fraud.
    Elizabeth Warren is the neighbor in the horror movie who drives by the haunted house and is like “hey guys seems bad in there want to come with me?” and America is the family that’s like “nah it’s probably not that bad there were only chainsaw noises in the night that one time!”

  5. #16945
    Legendary! Thepersona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    NO collusion.

    THE END.
    I dont want to be that guy (or recieve an infraction) but please, do not repeat the talking point of the russian trolls, verbatim.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  6. #16946
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    And found

    NOTHING.
    Eh, we all know that's not true. The report does not "establish" which means they didn't reach the standard of proof of "beyond a reasonable doubt." There's a ways between that and the "clear and convincing" or "preponderance of the evidence" standards of proof. And even that pronouncement is weirdly specific, though we've got a clear reason why it's that specific and that comes from manafort's lawyers: manafort was passing internal campaign polling data to a guy (kilimnik) associated with russian intel, who works for a guy (deripaska) who considers himself "one with the [russian] state."
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  7. #16947
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Cool.

    Let's talk about obstruction of justice and tax fraud.
    And money laundering, and bribery, an-

  8. #16948
    The Insane Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    It also doesn't exonerate him, which is the big thing. So really all that was said was "maybe, maybe not." Which is about the biggest tease you can do with something like this.
    That's not even what Mueller said too, it's Barr's interpretation of the report.

    Barr who has all the interest in the world to skew his interpretation

  9. #16949
    Warchief Mekkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    And money laundering, and bribery, an-
    these crimes are likely gonna be swept under i believe.

  10. #16950
    Pandaren Monk Sinyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Not fact.

    The only thing we know is that Barr decided almost unilaterally that he didn't think it was.
    Didn't he directly quote the Mueller report?
    Why would he misquote the report knowing that this will either get into the Public Eye and his summary could be shown as a fraud or it makes it to the Courts and the same thing happens?

    You are conflating the Mueller findings on COLLUSION and CORRUPTION of Justice. Please don't do that! Thanks.

  11. #16951
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    And your point? Money wasted on a useless investigation.
    Her point was that no money was wasted because the assets seized more than covered the cost of the investigation, so perhaps stop parroting that debunked talking point? If you want to drown your sorrows and boohoo and woe is me over it all this isn't the right thread for it. Sorry.

  12. #16952
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    I dont want to be that guy (or recieve an infraction) but please, do not repeat the talking point of the russian trolls, verbatim.
    Ill repeat whatever i like since its my opinion and mine alone.

    Muellers report is a nothingburger. A failure.

    He found bupkis. No collusion. No proof. Two years to achieve what I said would be the result two years ago.

    Nothing.
    Last edited by Aehl; 2019-03-25 at 12:15 AM.

  13. #16953
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    That's not even what Mueller said too, it's Barr's interpretation of the report.

    Barr who has all the interest in the world to skew his interpretation
    Which brings up what I've been saying for a while, WE (the American people) have to see the report.

    As I said previously, if Trump isn't then we sure found a lot of people surrounding him doing what he was looked into for, and it's good they were removed and found out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    And money laundering, and bribery, an-
    And witness tampering, and emolument clauses violations, an-

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    Didn't he directly quote the Mueller report?
    No .

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  14. #16954
    Legendary! Thepersona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Ill repeat whatever i like since its my opinion and mine alone.

    Muellers report is a nothingburger. A failure.

    He found bupkis. No collusion. No proof,. Two years to achieve what I said would be the result two years ago.

    Nothing.
    It achieved a lot of guilty pleas, jail time and indictments. and we still dont know the contents of the report. Just a 2 page, doctored and sanitized version.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  15. #16955
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekkle View Post
    these crimes are likely gonna be swept under i believe.
    In so far as it won’t come to bite Trump on the ass until he’s out of office.

  16. #16956
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    And money laundering, and bribery, an-
    And just being a terrible excuse of a human being.

    A pity that's not illegal.

  17. #16957
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekkle View Post
    these crimes are likely gonna be swept under i believe.
    Nope. SDNY is already all over it and salivating for when Trump is no longer in office and is therefore vulnerable. With evidence passed to them from Mueller's investigation.

  18. #16958
    Pandaren Monk Sinyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    No.
    What? His summary literally says as much... Do you honestly believe the quoted part is not in fact a quote from the report as it says it is???

    As the report states: “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

  19. #16959
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    Didn't he directly quote the Mueller report?
    Why would he misquote the report knowing that this will either get into the Public Eye and his summary could be shown as a fraud or it makes it to the Courts and the same thing happens?
    One of the very few quotes in fact, it says, "...does not establish..." but it's important to know what that actually means re burdens of proof (they didn't find proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but not that they didn't find strong evidence supporting it, and clearly leaves room for both "clear and convincing evidence" and "preponderance of the evidence"), and is different from what barr wrote in his letter, "did not find." An important thing to note: proof beyond a reasonable doubt is mainly only used in the US justice system when we're sending people to jail. That should not be the burden of proof someone requires here. I'm not sure why someone would think that if it's only "more likely than not" (preponderance of the evidence) that the president was in a conspiracy with a hostile foreign power against the US' interests, that we shouldn't do anything about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  20. #16960
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Ill repeat whatever i like since its my opinion and mine alone.

    Muellers report is a nothingburger. A failure.

    He found bupkis. No collusion. No proof. Two years to achieve what I said would be the result two years ago.

    Nothing.
    Except that's completely wrong. He may not have found definitive proof that Trump himself colluded, but he was unable to exonerate Trump on obstruction charges and plenty of Trump aides ARE currently waiting on sentences for various crimes. Dozens of indictments are farmed out to other prosecutors, SDNY is snapping up evidence resulting from the investigation to bolster their cases and several other things of note.

    Saying that the investigation came up with "nothing" is just being deliberately obtuse either out of self-preservation or to be a troll. I won't be the judge over which category you fall into.

    Of course none of us will know the extent of the info Mueller gathered until the report is made public, if ever. Hopefully those in Congress are able to get to the bottom of it swiftly and deal out whatever justice is merited.

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