1. #17121
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    Didn't he directly quote the Mueller report?
    Why would he misquote the report knowing that this will either get into the Public Eye and his summary could be shown as a fraud or it makes it to the Courts and the same thing happens?
    One of the very few quotes in fact, it says, "...does not establish..." but it's important to know what that actually means re burdens of proof (they didn't find proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but not that they didn't find strong evidence supporting it, and clearly leaves room for both "clear and convincing evidence" and "preponderance of the evidence"), and is different from what barr wrote in his letter, "did not find." An important thing to note: proof beyond a reasonable doubt is mainly only used in the US justice system when we're sending people to jail. That should not be the burden of proof someone requires here. I'm not sure why someone would think that if it's only "more likely than not" (preponderance of the evidence) that the president was in a conspiracy with a hostile foreign power against the US' interests, that we shouldn't do anything about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  2. #17122
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Ill repeat whatever i like since its my opinion and mine alone.

    Muellers report is a nothingburger. A failure.

    He found bupkis. No collusion. No proof. Two years to achieve what I said would be the result two years ago.

    Nothing.
    Except that's completely wrong. He may not have found definitive proof that Trump himself colluded, but he was unable to exonerate Trump on obstruction charges and plenty of Trump aides ARE currently waiting on sentences for various crimes. Dozens of indictments are farmed out to other prosecutors, SDNY is snapping up evidence resulting from the investigation to bolster their cases and several other things of note.

    Saying that the investigation came up with "nothing" is just being deliberately obtuse either out of self-preservation or to be a troll. I won't be the judge over which category you fall into.

    Of course none of us will know the extent of the info Mueller gathered until the report is made public, if ever. Hopefully those in Congress are able to get to the bottom of it swiftly and deal out whatever justice is merited.

  3. #17123
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    What? His summary literally says as much...

    As the report states: “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”
    "The report"? We don't have the report. We have Barr's interpretation of it.

    I'll do what I said I'd do long ago, wait for the report, and that's what everyone should do, rather than listening to the "maybe, maybe not" from one person.

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  4. #17124
    The Insane Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    Didn't he directly quote the Mueller report?
    No he didn't. He didn't even consult Mueller's opinion.

    Try again.

  5. #17125
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    And your point? Money wasted on a useless investigation.
    Over half-a-dozen guilty pleas and convictions with likely more to come says that you are mistaken.

    Were you as fiscally responsible when Republicans were spending many more millions going after Hillary Clinton? Investigations that resulted in...well, a lot of nothing.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2019-03-25 at 12:25 AM.
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  6. #17126
    He may not have found definitive proof that Trump himself colluded
    Correct

    No proof = no case.

    SDNY is snapping up evidence resulting from the investigation to bolster their cases and several other things of note
    Ah yes, if we cant get him for this we will get him for that.....right.

    Keep this up and see who wins in 2020.

  7. #17127
    Pandaren Monk Sinyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    One of the very few quotes in fact, it says, "...does not establish..." but it's important to know what that actually means re burdens of proof (they didn't find proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but not that they didn't find strong evidence supporting it, and clearly leaves room for both "clear and convincing evidence" and "preponderance of the evidence"), and is different from what barr wrote in his letter, "did not find." An important thing to note: proof beyond a reasonable doubt is mainly only used in the US justice system when we're sending people to jail. That should not be the burden of proof someone requires here. I'm not sure why someone would think that if it's only "more likely than not" (preponderance of the evidence) that the president was in a conspiracy with a hostile foreign power against the US' interests, that we shouldn't do anything about it.
    Well I read it as Mueller has underlying evidence separate from the report. In which he lays out both sides of the argument for both charges. I would think that if Mueller doesn't see enough to bring charges on a sitting President, than who would and ever expect to have a fair trial? You can't bend the law because you don't like Trump.

  8. #17128
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Keep this up and see who wins in 2020.
    Oh it will be Trump that wins, but that's 'cause people are retarded.

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  9. #17129
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    "The report"? We don't have the report. We have Barr's interpretation of it.

    I'll do what I said I'd do long ago, wait for the report, and that's what everyone should do, rather than listening to the "maybe, maybe not" from one person.
    Barr's letter does quote the report in very limited segments. But again, the wording of the quote is very specific, and doesn't actually mean what people (including barr) are construing it to mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  10. #17130
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Over half-a-dozen guilty pleas and convictions with likely more to come says that you are mistaken.
    Moana

    Remember Scooter Libby? That was whats called a "process crime"

    BTW If we are going to discuss indictments, I still see that the Clinton aides who lied to the FBI havent been charged.

    And then theres the Lisa Page affair which is still evolving.

  11. #17131
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    You can't bend the law because you don't like Trump.
    Much like you can't bend the law for liking him either, but Barr does have a history of saying the president is above the law and can't obstruct justice.

    Context!

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  12. #17132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Oh it will be Trump that wins, but that's 'cause people are retarded.
    It's terrible that people can vote for who they want and not for the candidate you think is best. A damn shame.

  13. #17133
    Pandaren Monk Sinyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    No he didn't. He didn't even consult Mueller's opinion.

    Try again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    "The report"? We don't have the report. We have Barr's interpretation of it.

    I'll do what I said I'd do long ago, wait for the report, and that's what everyone should do, rather than listening to the "maybe, maybe not" from one person.
    Barr has the Mueller report and he directly quoted it in his summary? What are you going on about?

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...er-report.html

    Page 2, end of second paragraph under the heading Russian Interference in the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election.

    Are you both saying that is not a direct quote? Please don't confuse Muellers REPORT for Barrs SUMMARY. In this context report = Mueller report.

  14. #17134
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    Well I read it as Mueller has underlying evidence separate from the report. In which he lays out both sides of the argument for both charges. I would think that if Mueller doesn't see enough to bring charges on a sitting President, than who would and ever expect to have a fair trial? You can't bend the law because you don't like Trump.
    The report on collusion essentially just says we don't have enough evidence to put him in jail. There's a fairly obvious action, that doesn't involve putting trump in jail, that shouldn't need the burden of proof of "beyond a reasonable doubt."
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  15. #17135
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Oh it will be Trump that wins, but that's 'cause people are retarded.
    Ever stop to think that the longer this farce continues, the more will see just how deep the swamp goes, and how corrupt Washington is?

  16. #17136
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Moana

    Remember Scooter Libby? That was whats called a "process crime"

    BTW If we are going to discuss indictments, I still see that the Clinton aides who lied to the FBI havent been charged.

    And then theres the Lisa Page affair which is still evolving.
    You know, I'm fine with people who break the law being indicted and tried. All of them. Not just Dems. Not just Republicans. I'll stand pat on the thought that an investigation that resulted in guilty pleas or jail time for Flynn, Cohen, Manafort and others was useful.
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  17. #17137
    Quote Originally Posted by Ooid View Post
    It's terrible that people can vote for who they want and not for the candidate you think is best. A damn shame.
    I don't care who I thought was best, I didn't vote as I found no candidate worth voting for (I didn't like Hillary and fuck knows I don't like Trump, and the 3rd party candidates had their own issues), but I knew for a fact Trump wasn't near the best of any of them, from the campaign trail to the actual election.

    If you think Trump is the best then you have some things to sort through. The man was and is not clearly not ready for this job and his actions and track record both during and before his presidency prove it.

    Anyone that though Trump would fight the elite, while being one of the elite, run the country like a business, which meant running it like one of his failing businesses, and would make us strong, while being one of the most whiny bitches around, was clearly only angry about other candidates and fucked up completely in their own logic.
    Last edited by Dontrike; 2019-03-25 at 12:30 AM.

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  18. #17138
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    I would think that if Mueller doesn't see enough to bring charges on a sitting President, than who would and ever expect to have a fair trial?
    Mueller doesn't have the jurisdiction to bring charges himself. It was always going to be a matter of laying out the evidence and allowing others to make the decision.

  19. #17139
    Pandaren Monk Sinyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Mueller doesn't have the jurisdiction to bring charges himself. It was always going to be a matter of laying out the evidence and allowing others to make the decision.
    Replace "bring" with "suggest" or w/e legalese you will.

  20. #17140
    I see some of this and laugh..as I remember a case some years ago when a man was charged with murder, was acquitted "on reasonable doubt"..the prosecution kept saying he was guilty and kept going on the investigation....

    ..until the day the supposed murder victim walked into a police station.

    Oops..............

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