1. #17201
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    He can't pardon anyone if it comes from the New York State AG.
    For some reason my mind always glosses over this WRT his kids but not trump himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  2. #17202
    Herald of the Titans Pterodactylus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    And the fact that what became the Steele dossier was originally paid for by Jeb Bush.
    But Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush are part of the same lizard tribe.
    “You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of ass." - President Donald Trump

  3. #17203
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    For some reason my mind always glosses over this WRT his kids but not trump himself.
    Maybe he'll run for Governor when he's done in D.C. Ha ha.
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  4. #17204
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubermensch View Post
    You should be glad you don't know much about politics. Its core laid bare is just tribalism. Picture cavemen fighting but with words this time and it's because they think differently to each other.

    You shouldn't get into it because all it does to you is draws you into a well of hate and negativity. Before long you'll find your own particular tribe to fight for and you'll become fanatical like the posters in this thread. Just observe and watch how human nature gets the best of them, use that as inspiration not to become like them.
    Unfortunately I'm into politics, just not nearly to the same level as most people here, you could see that by looking at my posting history which has a lot of posts in the politic section but have many gaps where I go days and sometimes weeks without making any posts. I mostly got interested in politics because of the healthcare issues in America and how they're a hot button issue politically.

  5. #17205
    After reading the muller report i wonder how many will say sorry to trump. No collusion just a witchhunt.... #FeelsBadMan

  6. #17206
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    To anyone contemplating replying to the multitude of... pro-Trump Redhats, remember, it is the equivalent of playing chess with a pigeon: no matter what you say or do, the pigeon will knock over pieces, shit on the board, and strut around convinced it has won.

    Simultaneously, it is important that their emitted mass of Tauren feces not be allowed to stand unchallenged - American has enough Orwellian reality-twisting going on without letting rank nonsense stand as discourse.

    What is needed is exactly what the US government will be most reluctant to provide: a complete release of nigh-on everything, including material that risks revealing sources and methods. When the Republican party nominated and then elected Trump, they put an extremely shady individual into a position of immense power and exposure - he failed the Caesar's wife test from the moment his campaign left port. If this is to be put to rest - if it is able to be put to rest, there needs to be a full and open accounting so that everyone can look at the evidence and go, "Yeah, he may be a stupid SOB, and I think he's wrong and dangerous and unstable, but he's not compromised, and he's not a traitor". The problem with that scenario, of course, is that Trump is fatally compromised, and that shining light into the darkness of his dealings, even if limited to the last decade, will fatally expose both him and the GOP's manifold malfeasance, even if there truly is no 'collusion' (beyond signing deals and looking for dirt on his opponent, during the campaign, with Russian agents).

    There aren't any really good scenarios in the foreseeable near future - the GOP cannot truly clear Trump, but a Democratic or other investigation will be bitter and indecisive, but not conducting such investigations will be allowing the already dangerous low bar for acceptable corruption to sink to levels that will be fatally toxic for the body politic. I expect what will happen is that both sides will try to dance a knife-edge: the GOP will try to convince everyone a thorough investigation has been performed while simultaneously allowing as little light in as possible, while the Democrats will do their best to convincingly expose something without overplaying their hand (the odds for them pulling that off are decent, but whether the disinformation stream will result in anyone caring will be a different matter), and it will all happen while the United States, as an entity, becomes more fragmented and even less functional.
    Last edited by ringpriest; 2019-03-25 at 02:14 AM.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  7. #17207
    As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.

    Yes, I'm sure there is probably some level of corruption here but so what? The Mueller report, no matter how damning it would have been, would never have taken Trump down. The GOP would have protected him tooth and nail - you guys already know this. To drag this on and let it fester into 2020 it going to hurt the Dems' chances significantly.

    The last 2.5 years just seem like such a wasted opportunity. After losing in 2016 (and we all know it was a fairly close race despite the final electoral votes), the Dems should have just nutted up and worked on policy, gone out to the regions they lost and rebuilt those relationships, and simply let Trump shoot himself in the foot time and time again. Instead both sides keep shooting themselves in the foot and probably whoever does it last (ie, fall of 2020) will end up losing the election. Like I said, the whole thing seems like a colossal wasted opportunity for the Dems to show a bunch of goodwill towards voters and just let Trump do all the shit talking, destructive work on his own.

    In politics, perception is reality and optics are incredibly important. For some reason the Dems haven't learned to use this to their advantage yet. Sometimes all you have to do is remain silent and do your job.

  8. #17208
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.

    Yes, I'm sure there is probably some level of corruption here but so what? The Mueller report, no matter how damning it would have been, would never have taken Trump down. The GOP would have protected him tooth and nail - you guys already know this. To drag this on and let it fester into 2020 it going to hurt the Dems' chances significantly.

    The last 2.5 years just seem like such a wasted opportunity. After losing in 2016 (and we all know it was a fairly close race despite the final electoral votes), the Dems should have just nutted up and worked on policy, gone out to the regions they lost and rebuilt those relationships, and simply let Trump shoot himself in the foot time and time again. Instead both sides keep shooting themselves in the foot and probably whoever does it last (ie, fall of 2020) will end up losing the election. Like I said, the whole thing seems like a colossal wasted opportunity for the Dems to show a bunch of goodwill towards voters and just let Trump do all the shit talking, destructive work on his own.

    In politics, perception is reality and optics are incredibly important. For some reason the Dems haven't learned to use this to their advantage yet. Sometimes all you have to do is remain silent and do your job.
    How's it feel being a woke independent?

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  9. #17209
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by insatable View Post
    After reading the muller report i wonder how many will say sorry to trump. No collusion just a witchhunt.... #FeelsBadMan
    Considering no one out side of the DOJ has read it and that what we have is only Barr's report on the report . . .
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  10. #17210
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.
    That part is well put.

    If I were advising a candidate looking to run in 2020 I'd be telling them this afternoon that running against the Republicans on their proposed cuts to Medicare and Medicaid would get them a lot further than trying to parse out the legalities of Mueller's investigation. I'm quite sure that Mueller has done his work honorably. There are other things out there that may help that fictional candidate but for a certainty running on issues like healthcare and climate are going to help them a lot more. There may even be a recession by then since it's still a year-and-a-half away. Running on D.C.'s obsessions is a good way to lose.
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  11. #17211
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    That part is well put.

    If I were advising a candidate looking to run in 2020 I'd be telling them this afternoon that running against the Republicans on their proposed cuts to Medicare and Medicaid would get them a lot further than trying to parse out the legalities of Mueller's investigation. I'm quite sure that Mueller has done his work honorably. There are other things out there that may help that fictional candidate but for a certainty running on issues like healthcare and climate are going to help them a lot more. There may even be a recession by then since it's still a year-and-a-half away. Running on D.C.'s obsessions is a good way to lose.
    Have candidates been speaking strongly on Muller and the release of the report lately? I thought they've been mostly (and justifiably) silent on the Trump-Russia investigation.

  12. #17212
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Considering no one out side of the DOJ has read it and that what we have is only Barr's report on the report . . .
    he directly quotes the report in his letter though

  13. #17213
    Quote Originally Posted by Sormine View Post
    Have candidates been speaking strongly on Muller and the release of the report lately? I thought they've been mostly (and justifiably) silent on the Trump-Russia investigation.
    No they haven't (which is what they are supposed to do). Still Congress needs to be shown the full report in closed session with Mueller bring brought in so this isn't a show trial. There will probably need to be some concerns addressed but there needs to be a mostly full report that is endorsed by Mueller released to the public. Anything less than that will appear like a Whitewash.

  14. #17214
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sormine View Post
    Have candidates been speaking strongly on Muller and the release of the report lately? I thought they've been mostly (and justifiably) silent on the Trump-Russia investigation.
    No they haven't but there will be an immense amount of pressure to do so now. My advice as a fictional adviser was looking forward to tomorrow and beyond. Turn the questions toward what's important to potential constituents. Don't bother trying to convince Trump supporters to support you. Go after the 60% aggressively.
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  15. #17215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.

    Yes, I'm sure there is probably some level of corruption here but so what? The Mueller report, no matter how damning it would have been, would never have taken Trump down. The GOP would have protected him tooth and nail - you guys already know this. To drag this on and let it fester into 2020 it going to hurt the Dems' chances significantly.

    The last 2.5 years just seem like such a wasted opportunity. After losing in 2016 (and we all know it was a fairly close race despite the final electoral votes), the Dems should have just nutted up and worked on policy, gone out to the regions they lost and rebuilt those relationships, and simply let Trump shoot himself in the foot time and time again. Instead both sides keep shooting themselves in the foot and probably whoever does it last (ie, fall of 2020) will end up losing the election. Like I said, the whole thing seems like a colossal wasted opportunity for the Dems to show a bunch of goodwill towards voters and just let Trump do all the shit talking, destructive work on his own.

    In politics, perception is reality and optics are incredibly important. For some reason the Dems haven't learned to use this to their advantage yet. Sometimes all you have to do is remain silent and do your job.
    Its like you forgot the 2018 midterms happened, or something. That aside, what do you actually want? Taking lumps and moving on from what, exactly? Wanting to move on when congress hasn't even seen the full report? Are you not even interested in what is in the report, regardless of what comes of it? No one expected it to remove Trump. The report isn't even a focal point for most presidential candidates right now. Shutting down all other investigations that have come as a result of this? People have already gone to prison as a result of Mueller's investigation, and now you want to shut down other investigations because this one didn't get Trump? That just seems..defeatist. You'd have more of a point if no indictments took place at all.
    Last edited by MAGAmobile; 2019-03-25 at 02:14 AM.

  16. #17216
    Quote Originally Posted by MAGAmobile View Post
    Its like you forgot the 2018 midterms happened, or something. That aside, what do you actually want? Taking lumps and moving on from what, exactly? Wanting to move on when congress hasn't even seen the full report? Are you not even interested in what is in the report, regardless of what comes of it? No one expected it to remove Trump. The report isn't even a focal point for most presidential candidates right now. Shutting down all other investigations that have come as a result of this? People have already gone to prison as a result of Mueller's investigation, and now you want to shut down other investigations because this one didn't get Trump? That just seems..defeatist. You'd have more of a point if no indictments took place at all.
    Its boggling my mind why Trump supporters are like "this is a waste of time". Like that is the absolute worst talking point you can use right now. What they should say is, thank you Mueller to root out the corruptions and showing that our president isn't a Russian agent while removing those on who team that would sell out the country. Now its going to looks extremely bad later if we do find there were some really grey issues where in legalize its shady but you can't do anything because its beyond questionable doubt...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by js3915 View Post
    We at the CIA already have the report.
    Yeah...I would delete that comment...if you are that really not good OPSEC even if its on a gaming forum...

  17. #17217
    Quote Originally Posted by akris15 View Post
    Its boggling my mind why Trump supporters are like "this is a waste of time". Like that is the absolute worst talking point you can use right now. What they should say is, thank you Mueller to root out the corruptions and showing that our president isn't a Russian agent while removing those on who team that would sell out the country. Now its going to looks extremely bad later if we do find there were some really grey issues where in legalize its shady but you can't do anything because its beyond questionable doubt...

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah...I would delete that comment...if you are that really not good OPSEC even if its on a gaming forum...
    It isnt really trump supporters... you are trying to get people fired up over something most people assume was made up years ago at this point. Sure is neat but its like being told you can dip your banana in yogurt. It isnt exactly a revelation.

  18. #17218
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    As a liberal I find the conclusion to all of this and some of the replies in here really embarrassing. Some of you sound like jaded ex-lovers and doing the same exact thing the right was doing by dragging on unnecessary investigations, trying to grasp at any straw possible. I honestly think the Democrats could save some face by releasing a statement thanking everybody, accepting the results but not concede on any core policy issues that matter to their base. Just take your lumps and move on.

    Yes, I'm sure there is probably some level of corruption here but so what? The Mueller report, no matter how damning it would have been, would never have taken Trump down. The GOP would have protected him tooth and nail - you guys already know this. To drag this on and let it fester into 2020 it going to hurt the Dems' chances significantly.

    The last 2.5 years just seem like such a wasted opportunity. After losing in 2016 (and we all know it was a fairly close race despite the final electoral votes), the Dems should have just nutted up and worked on policy, gone out to the regions they lost and rebuilt those relationships, and simply let Trump shoot himself in the foot time and time again. Instead both sides keep shooting themselves in the foot and probably whoever does it last (ie, fall of 2020) will end up losing the election. Like I said, the whole thing seems like a colossal wasted opportunity for the Dems to show a bunch of goodwill towards voters and just let Trump do all the shit talking, destructive work on his own.

    In politics, perception is reality and optics are incredibly important. For some reason the Dems haven't learned to use this to their advantage yet. Sometimes all you have to do is remain silent and do your job.
    The report should at least be made public and this is something Democrats and a lot of Republicans agree on. Remember there was that 420 vote in the house recently.

  19. #17219
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    No they haven't but there will be an immense amount of pressure to do so now. My advice as a fictional adviser was looking forward to tomorrow and beyond. Turn the questions toward what's important to potential constituents. Don't bother trying to convince Trump supporters to support you. Go after the 60% aggressively.
    I guess we're both speculating but I would be shocked to see any of the candidates harp on this in any way especially during the primaries when Trump should essentially be outside the spoken topics.

  20. #17220
    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKing View Post
    Unfortunately I'm into politics, just not nearly to the same level as most people here, you could see that by looking at my posting history which has a lot of posts in the politic section but have many gaps where I go days and sometimes weeks without making any posts. I mostly got interested in politics because of the healthcare issues in America and how they're a hot button issue politically.
    Healthcare issues are understandable but still won't be solved by debating and bickering about it.

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