Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Bullettime]

Alright, I'm back.

Contracting Fusion is the same as contracting Don Jr. They both worked for their respective campaigns. You don't get to claim one is OK because you like the party.

Being offered oppo research by foreign governments is not now, nor has it ever been against the law.

It's the equivalent of claiming you didn't steal the candy bar because you still have the receipt in your pocket showing you paid for it.

I have nothing to apologize for. You claiming I'm disseminating propaganda if I don't apologize is libelous. I don't agree with you, but I haven't misrepresented any of the information I've brought forward. I don't expect you are going to apologize either.


There's obviously two standards when it comes to working with the Russians, but if someone leaning on the Right side of the spectrum brings it up, it's hand-waved as "whataboutism".

Oppo research is legal.

Financial contributions from a foreign government and offering hacked materials are not.

[Ragedaug]

Oppo research is legal.

Financial contributions from a foreign government and offering hacked materials are not.

So what? The Trump campaign never solicited financial contributions from foreign governments, and they weren't offered hacked materials. That's like specifically what Mueller's been looking for over the past two years. And he just said he can't find it. But you will come in here and claim it's true anyway, like you have better sources than Mueller. Or Mueller's team of many lawyers are just to stupid to find it. And when I said, "there's no evidence of any of that", a moderate will jump in and claim I'm disseminating propaganda. It's like I'm chatting in bizarro world where up is down and down is up and I just don't know it.

You know who did operate with huge sums of money from foreign governments? The DNC. The chair person of the DNC spoke about the fact that the party was essentially out of money and the Clinton Foundation kept them afloat. The Clinton Foundation that was primarily funded by foreign governments.

I don't expect that you really care about foreign contributions though, I suspect you mostly just hate Trump (and Republicans) so you'll use any excuse to nail them, even when the same is regularly practiced by the party or political ideology you support and you couldn't really care less about that.

[Mormolyce]

Being offered oppo research by foreign governments is not now, nor has it ever been against the law.

So why lie about it so many times?

[Draco-Onis]

Democrats did the same thing. They worked with a dude from England and a dude from the Ukraine to dig up dirt on Trump. So yeah...not illegal to talk to foreign people to get dirt. Like it's literally never been illegal to obtain oppo research from foreign people. The idea that you can't talk to anyone outside of the U.S. during an election is odd (and ridiculous) concept. Especially when both candidates already have many ties outside the U.S.

Christopher Steele was not a representative of a foreign government but an private investigator, there was no e-mail saying this is part of a government operation to help you win. The top brass in Trump's campaign not only took that meeting but actively wanted help from a hostile power not sure what Ukraine dude you are talking about.

"We think Trump did something bad in Russia...but we can't ask anyone in Russia about it...'cause that will impact our election" whaaaaat?

Those unregistered foreign spies in the Trump campaign say otherwise.

Kinda like the people who make a big deal about Obama's birth certificate. It doesn't matter. Obama's mom is a U.S. citizen. Obama could have been born in literally any country in the world and still be president. Just some very odd things that people who really dislike other people focus on.

You mean the racist conspiracy theory that Donald Trump was leading for years?

Also, Fusion talked to the exact same Russian lady more times than Don Jr. did, and they were working for the Clinton campaign providing oppo research. So under your definition, the Clinton campaign colluded twice as hard..

First source second did that lady have links to Russian intelligence? did she present herself as part of a government's program to help the Clintons? seems you are pulling at straws. There is nothing wrong with opposition research but when a foreign government calls you and says they are going to actively help you win you call the FBI unless you are a criminal.

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So what? The Trump campaign never solicited financial contributions from foreign governments, and they weren't offered hacked materials.

Trump's tower in Moscow, Don Jr.'s emails and Roger Stone's contact with a GRU operative say hi.

[Orbitus]

Alright, I'm back.

Contracting Fusion is the same as contracting Don Jr. They both worked for their respective campaigns. You don't get to claim one is OK because you like the party.

Being offered oppo research by foreign governments is not now, nor has it ever been against the law.

It's the equivalent of claiming you didn't steal the candy bar because you still have the receipt in your pocket showing you paid for it.

I have nothing to apologize for. You claiming I'm disseminating propaganda if I don't apologize is libelous. I don't agree with you, but I haven't misrepresented any of the information I've brought forward. I don't expect you are going to apologize either.


There's obviously two standards when it comes to working with the Russians, but if someone leaning on the Right side of the spectrum brings it up, it's hand-waved as "whataboutism".

I just linked you the fucking law that showed you to be wrong, and you are still saying it isn't illegal?

[Dontrike]

I didn't vote for him last election and I'm undecided how I'll vote in 2020 at this time. "Eroding the nation to it's core"?...it appears that you have projection issues. But thanks for reinforcing my point.

Is it projection though? You can't really name anything Trump has done to lift America up in any way, the economy is the best he has and that has only come from what was essentially a going out of business sale while everything else he has tried has actively made things worse. Hate crimes are up, on the national stage we are a laughing stock now more than ever, his children fuck shit up behind the scenes, and Trump has yet to complete any promise of his to America in a way that actually brought forth good, rather than what actually happened which is just a pure shit show after another.

[Bodakane]

Democrats did the same thing. They worked with a dude from England and a dude from the Ukraine to dig up dirt on Trump. So yeah...not illegal to talk to foreign people to get dirt. Like it's literally never been illegal to obtain oppo research from foreign people. The idea that you can't talk to anyone outside of the U.S. during an election is odd (and ridiculous) concept. Especially when both candidates already have many ties outside the U.S.

"We think Trump did something bad in Russia...but we can't ask anyone in Russia about it...'cause that will impact our election" whaaaaat?

Kinda like the people who make a big deal about Obama's birth certificate. It doesn't matter. Obama's mom is a U.S. citizen. Obama could have been born in literally any country in the world and still be president. Just some very odd things that people who really dislike other people focus on.

Also, Fusion talked to the exact same Russian lady more times than Don Jr. did, and they were working for the Clinton campaign providing oppo research. So under your definition, the Clinton campaign colluded twice as hard.

Your argument just doesn't make any sense.

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No, the Trump Tower meeting did happen. Not sure where you thought it didn't. It's documented pretty substantially.

Couple of things.....

- Steele is not an operative of the British government (an actual ally) anymore and our government has and does use his intelligence from time to time, on get this...Russia. He has been vetted by every US intelligence agency.

- Russia did interfere in our election with the goal of getting Trump as POTUS.

- Every major Trump campaign person had or was trying to establish back channels with the Russian government.

- The NRA a major Trump supporting lobby, was laundering money from Russian oligarchs into the Trump campaign.

- Virtually all these people lied about their Russian dealings which is weird if everything was super duper legal.

- Trump obstructed justice into an investigation of his supposed super duper legal actions.

To act like this all coincidence is utter bullshit. To act like the Barr Summation clears Trump is utter stupidity. To keep fighting all these facts and more, day after day after day shows a very clear bias.

[Shalcker]

- Steele is not an operative of the British government (an actual ally) anymore and our government has and does use his intelligence from time to time, on get this...Russia. He has been vetted by every US intelligence agency.

So, can he be brought to testify to Congress about it?

- Russia did interfere in our election with the goal of getting Trump as POTUS.

With a goal of hurting Hillary. Noone cared about Trump.

- Every major Trump campaign person had or was trying to establish back channels with the Russian government.

Unsuccessfully.

- The NRA a major Trump supporting lobby, was laundering money from Russian oligarchs into the Trump campaign.

And Clinton Foundation was major DNC funding source, getting foreign money...

[Jtbrig7390]

With a goal of hurting Hillary. Noone cared about Trump.

At lease you finally admit Russia interfered in our election.

I'm proud of you for finally admitting to it.

[Shalcker]

At lease you finally admit Russia interfered in our election.

I'm proud of you for finally admitting to it.

I admitted it long ago, once they have shown more direct links between GRU and Guiccifer 2.0 (who pushed DNC docs).

[Dontrike]

Why not just admit they've got us (the public) where they want us. Half of us support each side and let them off the hook regardless of what they do, and no one will ever hold them accountable.

No, it isn't 50/50, tribalism, can't hold people on "our team" accountable, that's just more "both sides" bullshit. Any sane person would want whoever breaks the law see justice and that's that. You honestly can't say that when we have a president who has broken various laws, clauses, and more during his presidency while the entire GOP has protected him just so they can use his stupidity to get what they want while the last few presidents did some shit, but they were not actively looking to line their pockets at every turn.

Trump is a symptom of this corruption that needs out of our government and anyone, left or right, that defends that shows they are okay with corruption as long as it matches their mindset.

[Shalcker]

No, it isn't 50/50, tribalism, can't hold people on "our team" accountable, that's just more "both sides" bullshit. Any sane person would want whoever breaks the law see justice and that's that. You honestly can't say that when we have a president who has broken various laws, clauses, and more during his presidency while the entire GOP has protected him just so they can use his stupidity to get what they want while the last few presidents did some shit, but they were not actively looking to line their pockets at every turn.

As far as i understand you're asking for law to be broken by releasing Grand Jury parts of investigation.

Trump is a symptom of this corruption that needs out of our government and anyone, left or right, that defends that shows they are okay with corruption as long as it matches their mindset.

Like asking to go against the law by releasing Mueller report in full immediately.

[Dontrike]

As far as i understand you're asking for law to be broken by releasing Grand Jury parts of investigation.

What fine print did you read to get to that asinine logic? In no way did I say any of that. I said it doesn't matter what side someone is on, if someone breaks the law they need to be brought to justice. Where the fuck did you get "Grand Jury" from that? Seriously. How? I'm legitimately asking what back roads of logic you took to get to something completely fucking different. It's astonishing and baffling.

Like asking to go against the law by releasing Mueller report in full immediately.

Seriously, what kind of hopscotch do you have to do to jump to a completely different topic that I discussed nothing about? I'm honestly asking.

[Daelak]

Yeah, they will. If the report is published in full and there is absolutely no collusion between Trump and the Russians, I would be completely shocked if they all came back and said, "sorry folks, we were wrong". I don't see the Trump-Russia stuff dying down prior to the 2020 election regardless of what we find in the report.

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It won't matter. Clinton's email were subpoena and she ended up deleting 30 grand of them before the FBI could force their way to them months later, and no one cares.

Trump's been talking big about how he's going to put all the things out in the public now that the investigation is over, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

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Sure they can request it, then subpoena it, but that doesn't mean they'll get it unredacted.

It wont say that because there are over 100 public contacts between members of the trump campaign, transition team, and as president.

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2 Weeks ago they said it was pretty safe to say that the full report contains items showing evidence or proof of Trump-Russia collusion. So I'm not brave enough to take that "safe bet". We'll see it when (or if) we see it.

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Are you asking me "should they be co-equal" or "are they co-equal". Cause I have different answers for those two questions. I may be minunderstaning your question.

Regarding me being anti-Trump, I "bother" so I can show that you need no proof to make false allegations and libel against someone for something you literally have no way to prove. But that doesn't stop you from trying to denigrate me.

Go through my post history and you find I only ever have negative things to say about Trump's personal behavior and his rhetoric. I didn't vote for Trump, I think he is morally reprehensible, and I think he is bad for the Republican Party. I didn't like Trump when he was a Democrat, and still don't like him now that he's become a Republican. That's all you'll ever see me saying about Trump. But somehow you equate that with being a "Trump Supporter". /shrug

Theres no downside risk for Barr to omit, redact, and push out a four page summary of a 300 page report in less than 16 hours because all Republicans are complicit in ensuring they dont have a political meltdown before the 2020 elections. Obfuscation and shielding a Republican president, which he has done the exact same thing before, are literally the only reasons why Barr is AG right now. The timing of Sessions resigning, Barr's confirmation, and Rosenstein's delayed resignation is evidence of even more obstruction of justice.

[Draco-Onis]

With a goal of hurting Hillary. Noone cared about Trump.

“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

[Smitzelplix]

In other news, Roger Stone just can't help himself.

Stone posted an image on Friday depicting House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, a Democrat, along with the portmanteau “BULLSCHIFF.” A caption accompanying the post reads: “In 50 years in American politics, I have never come across a shiftier, more duplicitous con man and charlatan than @repadamschiff. It it’s Schiff, flush it! #maga.”

https://www.newsweek.com/roger-stone...-order-1380741

[Dontrike]

In other news, Roger Stone just can't help himself.



https://www.newsweek.com/roger-stone...-order-1380741

At what point does a judge just throw him in jail, 'cause this is fucking ridiculous.

[Shalcker]

“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

That is conjecture on their part, not something Russians said.

Because what they got there wasn't that "sensitive" at all.

[D Luniz]

Couple of things.....

- Steele is not an operative of the British government (an actual ally) anymore and our government has and does use his intelligence from time to time, on get this...Russia. He has been vetted by every US intelligence agency.

- Russia did interfere in our election with the goal of getting Trump as POTUS.

- Every major Trump campaign person had or was trying to establish back channels with the Russian government.

- The NRA a major Trump supporting lobby, was laundering money from Russian oligarchs into the Trump campaign.

- Virtually all these people lied about their Russian dealings which is weird if everything was super duper legal.

- Trump obstructed justice into an investigation of his supposed super duper legal actions.

To act like this all coincidence is utter bullshit. To act like the Barr Summation clears Trump is utter stupidity. To keep fighting all these facts and more, day after day after day shows a very clear bias.

Id like to add to your list

the often multiple "revisions" to Trump admin members security disclosures about Russians they met with, claimed they didnt, and then got caught lying, and would have to add it, only to get caught in that they still hadn't disclosed everything

[Draco-Onis]

That is conjecture on their part, not something Russians said.

Because what they got there wasn't that "sensitive" at all.

Oh yes and Putin was just "wrongly" translated when he said he wanted Trump at Helsinki