Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Cthulhu 2020]

1. No they weren't, stop blatantly lying and ignoring the subsequent part of the report where it explicitly states the tapes were fake.
2. Subjective judgement that you're more than welcome to have, but ultimately means nothing.
3. Surely the first time this has ever happened in Politics.
4. "Tried his hardest" is again, subjective and something that you can't logically prove. He could have tried much harder, but it's ultimately irrelevant.

Make a campaign commercial then, good luck!

Trying to murder someone, trying to rob a store, trying to fleece taxpayer money out of the budget and funnel it to yourself, all that stuff is illegal.

So I have to wonder why the Trumpkin line is "Oh he just ATTEMTPED to commit a crime, no big deal!"

We know Trump is a criminal who's going to retire from his presidency in 2020 at behest of the voters, since there are still ongoing state level investigations. Right now we get to laugh at how damning the report is and all it takes for his supporters to consider it a win is that he's not being impeached.

Democrats are simply making the right move by not impeaching. It would be a long trial that would tie up our government for months, and it's unlikely that they would convince enough bias Republicans to vote against their president, so in a way they're just going to concentrate on the things the public wants, concentrate on policy, and let Trump's own incompetence, criminality, and mouth carry him to a loss in the next election.

[Draco-Onis]

I get that, but like I said, how can we even be sure that the 2020 elections are legitimate now? We are all aware of Russian interference into our elections, why should we just trust in the 2020 elections instead of pushing for impeachment? With Donald Trump still in office, nothing will be done to secure the 2020 elections from Russian interference, he is a threat to our national security and election integrity, and for that reason he needs to be impeached instead of relying on elections to fix it.

It doesn't matter if he wins as a matter of fact if democrats elect a centrist it may turn out to be a good thing, all democrats need to focus on is to get the house and senate in 2020. Even people that vote for Trump may vote for a democrat if only to keep his power in check, he's been in office for two years now the national security ship has sailed. I can only imagine the damage he will do once re-elected to the GOP, this is a matter of short term pain for long term gain.

I have been long enough to know that the US has wild swing in politics the reverb from Donald Trump time in office will be drastic, the democratic party may finally be forced to go full progressive. Donald Trump for better or for worse is the enema America needs to move forward.

[Draco-Onis]

Exactly how do you plan on accomplishing this? Is this going to be more of that phenomenon where we have one argument where people are saying Trump is a nobody and another where (some of the same) people say Trump is an evil autocrat bent on destroying America and the world?

You guys should really consider taking some time and regrouping. None of this has worked or will work for you.

The ultimate goal should be to control both houses of congress right now that is not the case hence he is a threat, the process is already in the works 37 indictments 20 investigations and 6 people in Trump's inner circle going to jail. You can stay in your hole and say these things are not happening but more people are going to go to jail since Trump surrounds himself with crooks.

[Bodakane]

Good luck, I'm glad my side isn't the one constantly having to retreat to different forms of promised accountability. Wonder what you'll say if you lose in 2020? Pout more?

Explain why you're perfectly ok with your president being corrupt enough to order his people to break the fucking law, but impotent enough that they refused.

How the hell is that win?

[Xyonai]

Good luck, I'm glad my side isn't the one constantly having to retreat to different forms of promised accountability. Wonder what you'll say if you lose in 2020? Pout more?

Oh don't get me wrong, I still think that the Dems can fuck up 2020 the same way they fucked up 2016. Just the idea that Trump's victory is assured is so ironically stupid because, even without this investigation, there's enough shit there to sling at him and his party that very well might stick when it comes to the implementation of - or the failure to implement - policy and his disdain for Americans who don't support him.

And this isn't even going into how well Character Assassination - baseless or not - worked on Clinton when half of it was fueled by actual conspiracy theories, I'm boggling to imagine how more effective such a thing could be when you've got such a shitty human being going out on stage to brag about how much of a shitty human being they are.

But I think Dem's are best of running on the Momentum that won them so many seats in 2018, at the end of the day.

[Elegiac]

@Didactic McCarthy's hot take on this is to double down on America's standards for justice, i.e. you must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that something criminal happened, and that has not happened here, despite the report proving high amounts of unethical behavior. So we can expect similar responses from @Dacien vomited up soon as well.

I'll take that bet; the winner has to donate 5 dollars to the Democratic candidate of the other's choice.

If he doesn't post it within the next 48 hours, you gotta donate to Mayor Pete's campaign. If he does, I'll pony up to whoever.

[NoiseTank13]

Explain why you're perfectly ok with your president being corrupt enough to order his people to break the fucking law, but impotent enough that they refused.

How the hell is that win?

'it ownz the libz hur dur thats my only political belief'

[tyrlaan]

Good luck, I'm glad my side isn't the one constantly having to retreat to different forms of promised accountability. Wonder what you'll say if you lose in 2020? Pout more?

This might be a fair point. After all "your side" just ignores the entire concept of accountability.

It's also weird to see you so confident in your 2020 prediction after being so "spot on" with the Moore/Jones election.

Glad to see your tribalism is so important that you need to throw misguided gloats and digs into each post though.

[Ripster42]

(OK, I now get the idea where this thread could be going even if the report turns out nothing new whatsoever - I was here just for a couple of hours and I already see that most of the posts are just empty rehashes of what was said before, this can go on for however long. I am out to my happy world of other threads where posts actually have content.)

New: Manafort wasn't just giving polling data, he gave russian intel planned campaign messaging and directed them where to focus their influence campaign (wisconsin, michigan, minnesota, and pennsylvania). He was also planning a peace deal concerning eastern ukraine that would give russia control of the donbass region that would use trump's influence if he became elected (now obviously untenable).

Anytime someone says "the campaign didn't collude with russia" just tell them, yes, they did. Page 140 of volume 1 of the mueller report.

[Draco-Onis]

What hole? I don't need a hole. I think you're still in some sort of delusion about exactly what's happened here. You do know that Trump isn't going anywhere and still has the entire GOP apparatus behind him stronger than ever before, right? This wasn't a win for you, bud.

Who says I want Trump to go anywhere? 2018 shows that Trump has managed to do the impossible destroy the gerrymandered walls the GOP spend decades to build. You are mistaken my goal isn't decapitation but dismemberment.

[gondrin]

I get that, but like I said, how can we even be sure that the 2020 elections are legitimate now? We are all aware of Russian interference into our elections, why should we just trust in the 2020 elections instead of pushing for impeachment? With Donald Trump still in office, nothing will be done to secure the 2020 elections from Russian interference, he is a threat to our national security and election integrity, and for that reason he needs to be impeached instead of relying on elections to fix it.

Keep in mind: he is literally running for re-election in 2020, with us all knowing that our elections are under attack. Does that not scare you? What makes you so sure that he won't win again because of that same unchecked Russian interference that won him the election in the first place?

Honestly, not really. If you really want him to not have power, focus on keeping the house and retaking the senate then changing the filibuster rule. Make all votes only take a simple majority AND require all bills that are brought forth have to come to a vote on the floor within 60 days of being brought forth(the amount of days can be changed). That way you don't have what we have now where McConnell basically decides what can be voted on or no. The president, while have vast powers in some areas, is completely worthless on most domestic areas other then being a talking point in the news.

[Flower Milk]

Honestly, not really. If you really want him to not have power, focus on keeping the house and retaking the senate then changing the filibuster rule. Make all votes only take a simple majority AND require all bills that are brought forth have to come to a vote on the floor within 60 days of being brought forth(the amount of days can be changed). That way you don't have what we have now where McConnell basically decides what can be voted on or no. The president, while have vast powers in some areas, is completely worthless on most domestic areas other then being a talking point in the news.

How are Democrats going to take the senate with a foreign power still interfering in our elections?

[Edge-]

I don't answer loaded questions, nor should anyone else.

Let's rephrase:

Do you have any issues or concerns with a sitting president repeatedly ordering his staff to violate the law in order to protect him/herself?

[rda]

New: Manafort wasn't just giving polling data, he gave russian intel planned campaign messaging and directed them where to focus their influence campaign (wisconsin, michigan, minnesota, and pennsylvania). He was also planning a peace deal concerning eastern ukraine that would give russia control of the donbass region that would use trump's influence if he became elected (now obviously untenable).

Anytime someone says "the campaign didn't collude with russia" just tell them, yes, they did. Page 140 of volume 1 of the mueller report.

Ha. That's indeed new, thanks. I'll read about it. (Maybe not everything is lost with the thread.)

[Bodakane]

I don't answer loaded questions, nor should anyone else..

Loaded question? What the fuck are you talking about?

Trump ordered his people to break the law and they refused. Why are you so fucking ok with that you gloating like you won something?

Be a man, sack up and explain this instead fo being a coward.

[gondrin]

Backing off impeachment because you know you'll continue to lose is smart. Making more matter of fact predictions that won't age well is not so smart.

No comment on your lie about the fake pee tapes? Did you think people wouldn't know you were lying about that or are you just following other liars on Twitter and not reading the report yourself?

While I don't like Trump for personal reasons(way before he became president), impeachment for the democrats would be the same as trying to repeal the ACA for the GOP. It will be an albatross that will go nowhere and just piss people off in the long run.

[Shadowferal]

What hole? I don't need a hole. I think you're still in some sort of delusion about exactly what's happened here. You do know that Trump isn't going anywhere and still has the entire GOP apparatus behind him stronger than ever before, right? This wasn't a win for you, bud.

Remember when you said that the GOP would sweep both the House and the Senate?
You were delusional then, and I'm pretty sure you still are.

Fox News and Bernie winning them over should be a nice warning sign.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Oh man. Pee tapes are real? Well, that just made my day. The rest of the info, I figured it was true. But finding out pee tapes are real? Ha.

[gondrin]

How are Democrats going to take the senate with a foreign power still interfering in our elections?

Those are state elections that tend to have a different focus. Also, unlike the president, your senators can be visited when they are at home and you can personally bitch at them if you have to. While I am not excusing it, foreign powers have been interfering with the US elections a long way before the recent elections. It is one of the few things that most governments do that are "hostile" with each other.

[Ripster42]

Ha. That's indeed new, thanks. I'll read about it. (Maybe not everything is lost with the thread.)

After reading volume 1, I'm seeing that some people are quoting this as page 148, but on the report I'm reading, it's 140. I don't really know how other people are getting page 148.