Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[mvaliz]

I would think Gates is going to have to offer to do a lot more than just finger Manafort in order to get a plea deal here.

I've been thinking along these lines as well.

Mueller's gotten what now - THREE plea deals? Flynn, Gates and Papajohnalicious? I've been asking myself are they simply providing evidence for others up the food chain, or are they also possibly offering to act as witnesses on the stand?

Because, lets face it - if Dumbfuck Dump is guilty, the battle isn't going to be just presenting the evidence - but convincing the GOP Toadies in charge that he needs to go. Witnesses will help with that cause.

[Endus]

I've been thinking along these lines as well.

Mueller's gotten what now - THREE plea deals? Flynn, Gates and Papajohnalicious? I've been asking myself are they simply providing evidence for others up the food chain, or are they also possibly offering to act as witnesses on the stand?

Because, lets face it - if Dumbfuck Dump is guilty, the battle isn't going to be just presenting the evidence - but convincing the GOP Toadies in charge that he needs to go. Witnesses will help with that cause.

At the very least, we have to assume those three had something to give Mueller, since there's no reason to try and avoid trial for Mueller on this stuff, since he's perfectly willing to press charges without a plea deal in place. So offering a deal to make things easier isn't on the table; the only reason Mueller would offer one is if they had intelligence or testimony to offer that Mueller could not otherwise access. And Mueller would ensure that evidence/testimony would nail a bigger fish to the wall first, not go into this without seeing what's being offered.

[Breccia]

What was that - like, less than 24 hours between hiring the new laywer and getting the guilty plea?

Stories about Gates hiring a new lawyer date back to January. It got more attention with more evidence recently.

However, I would still posit a month is a short time to negotiate a plea deal with stakes this high.

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Mueller's gotten what now - THREE plea deals? Flynn, Gates and Papajohnalicious?

He also has an American ratting out the Russians he laundered money for, and Van Der Zwaan, so five. Manafort hasn't, neither have most of the Russians. *cough* Most of the other Russians.

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Letting Gates plea bargain just to add more years to Manafort's potential rest-of-life sentence doesn't seem like a very efficient route to me.

This is a good point. Gates and Manafort did not get their illegal Russian money in a vacuum. Even if you choose to handwave Trump's involvement in his campaign manager taking illegal Russian money, the banks and other middlemen who helped are likely in trouble. Should such happen, this will make it even more obvious that Trump's refusal to apply Russian sanctions is either willful ignorance backed by incompetence, or just plain old collusion.

[BrerBear]

Mueller's gotten what now - THREE plea deals? Flynn, Gates and Papajohnalicious? I've been asking myself are they simply providing evidence for others up the food chain, or are they also possibly offering to act as witnesses on the stand?

The pattern that's emerging is likely that the Trump campaign knew about Russian interference (particularly stolen emails) and possibly accepted it, whether or not they made a deal to get it done.
Mueller isn't trying to nail Manafort because that's already achieved. He's likely trying to put pressure on them until they'll reveal how much (and who) in the campaign knew about the Russian assistance.

Papadopolous blabbed to foreigners at a bar while drunk. You can be damned sure he told others in the campaign he was working on what he knew. Will be fascinating to watch this all play out.

[Breccia]

Well let's just make this official, shall we?

Former Trump campaign adviser Richard Gates pleaded guilty on Friday afternoon as part of a deal with special counsel Robert Mueller in his investigation into Russian interference in the election.

Gates pleaded guilty to two charges brought against him by Mueller’s team in federal court in Washington, D.C: one count of conspiracy against the United States and one count of making a false a statement to the FBI agents investigating Russian interference. He has also agreed to cooperate with Mueller's investigation.

According to the criminal information filed by Mueller on Friday shortly before Gates pleaded guilty, Gates lied to federal investigators about a March 2013 meeting during which former Trump campaign adviser Paul Manafort, an unnamed member of Congress reported by the Los Angeles Times to be Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), and an unnamed lobbyist discussed Ukraine.

Conspiracy. Boom.

And we know he was talking with the Russians -- sorry, sorry, "air quote" Ukrainians "air quote" -- during Trump's campaign.

The investigation is ongoing.

[Edge-]

Indeed, pleading guilty to two charges only?

Homey is giving Mueller's team receipts.

[Shadowmelded]

Rhorabacher makes another appearance.

[Breccia]

Indeed, pleading guilty to two charges only?

One of them is conspiracy (to defraud, I believe). I'm fairly sure that's a felony. Incidentally, US code 18 does say that conspiracy is only a felony, when the related actions are also a felony, which lying to the IRS 100% is.

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Rhorabacher makes another appearance.

I totally forgot about that guy. Huh. Isn't that interesting.

[NYC17]

One of them is conspiracy (to defraud, I believe). I'm fairly sure that's a felony. Incidentally, US code 18 does say that conspiracy is only a felony, when the related actions are also a felony, which lying to the IRS 100% is.

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I totally forgot about that guy. Huh. Isn't that interesting.

Apparently the lie was from this month. February 1st. Rick Wilson has an interesting, but unsubstantiated theory; that Gates thought the Nunes Memo would blow open the investigation. Take that for what you will.

Either way, his lawyers withdrew the day he lied. Their reasoning was provided in documents, which were filed under seal.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ia-case-383422

[PACOX]

Funny how high profile criminals tend to be taken down via their taxes.

[Shadowferal]

Gates plead guilty...Manafort confused...But Gates won't need a trial now, which would have been very public.

[Shadowmelded]

Funny how high profile criminals tend to be taken down via their taxes.

The IRS is going to be insufferable if they get another scalp.

[Breccia]

Either way, his lawyers withdrew the day he lied. Their reasoning was provided in documents, which were filed under seal.

Well, shit. What was that conversation like?

"Mr. Gates, as your lawyers, our professional opinion is that you don't lie to the FBI."
"Fuck you, I like lying to the FBI!"
"If you insist, we will have to recuse ourselves."
"Fine, fuck off. The Nunes memo proves that this whole thing is going to -- "
*WHUMP*
"...what was that sound?"
"Another thirty-two charges. Also, bye."

[NYC17]

Well, shit. What was that conversation like?

"Mr. Gates, as your lawyers, our professional opinion is that you don't lie to the FBI."
"Fuck you, I like lying to the FBI!"
"If you insist, we will have to recuse ourselves."
"Fine, fuck off. The Nunes memo proves that this whole thing is going to -- "
*WHUMP*
"...what was that sound?"
"Another thirty-two charges. Also, bye."

Yea I'm not really sure, haha. I haven't thought about it much, which is really the only reason why I included Rick Wilson's comment about Gates thinking the Nunes memo was going to blow apart the investigation and he wouldn't have to account for it. Lying to the FBI is dumb, but continuing to do so after Mueller has shown that he has you and your buddy by the balls is just...stupid.

Wilson's idea seems possible on the face of it, but I haven't had time to seriously consider it beyond a "huh, that's interesting" reaction.

[Breccia]

In the meantime, not much new that those people following the investigation with context and common sense didn't know. Accepting illegal foreign money, lying to the IRS about accepting illegal foreign money, lying to the banks about illegal foreign money and what it would be used for, bribing European government officials, lying to the...hoooooooooold up.

The latest indictment accuses Manafort, with Gates’s help, of secretly retaining a group of former senior European politicians to take positions that were favorable to Ukraine as part of their illegal lobbying work for Kiev’s government. That work included lobbying in the United States.

“Although the former politicians would appear to be providing their independent assessments of Government of Ukraine actions, in fact they were paid lobbyists for Ukraine,” the indictment says.

Manafort wired over $2 million from his offshore accounts to pay these former politicians, the indictment alleges.

The indictment also contains several details about financial-related charges levied against Manafort that were previously public. The charges are related to the work Manafort and Gates did on behalf of pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarch Viktor Yanukovych.

The indictment alleges that Manafort and Gates concealed their scheme to avoid registering as a foreign agent in the United States by providing a “false and misleading” statement to two unnamed lobbying firms they retained. They allegedly statedthat the European organization they worked with in their lobbying work was not linked or funded in any way by a foreign government.

The organization, known as the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine, “was created in or about 2012 in Belgium as a mouthpiece for Yanukovych and the Party of Regions,” his political party, the indictment says.

The U.S. lobbying firms hired by Manafort and Gates, identified only as Company A and Company B, are widely reported to be the Podesta Group and Mercury Public Affairs.

Wow. Actually bribing government officials. On behalf of Russia.

But I suppose Trump's rabid fanbase will somehow insist that, while Manafort and Gates were bribing other governments they were "lobbying" for, somehow, they didn't do that while running Trump's campaign.

Are we tired of winning yet?

[masterhorus8]

Wow. Actually bribing government officials. On behalf of Russia.

But I suppose Trump's rabid fanbase will somehow insist that, while Manafort and Gates were bribing other governments they were "lobbying" for, somehow, they didn't do that while running Trump's campaign.

Are we tired of winning yet?

They'll probably continue to argue that it wasn't Russia, just Ukraine.

[Shadowmelded]

In the meantime, not much new that those people following the investigation with context and common sense didn't know. Accepting illegal foreign money, lying to the IRS about accepting illegal foreign money, lying to the banks about illegal foreign money and what it would be used for, bribing European government officials, lying to the...hoooooooooold up.

The latest indictment accuses Manafort, with Gates’s help, of secretly retaining a group of former senior European politicians to take positions that were favorable to Ukraine as part of their illegal lobbying work for Kiev’s government. That work included lobbying in the United States.



Wow. Actually bribing government officials. On behalf of Russia.

But I suppose Trump's rabid fanbase will somehow insist that, while Manafort and Gates were bribing other governments they were "lobbying" for, somehow, they didn't do that while running Trump's campaign.

Are we tired of winning yet?

Group has Podesta links, buckle up for "Hillary was the real colluder" making a return.

[Breccia]

They'll probably continue to argue that it wasn't Russia, just Ukraine.

A distinction so stressed it signed up for a yoga class and switched to decaf. Even if these weren't blatantly pro-Russian Ukrainians, I posit that since Russia flat-out invaded the country any distinction is moot anyhow. Speaking of which, how're those sanctions going? Still nothing? That's neat.

[Stormspark]

Group has Podesta links, buckle up for "Hillary was the real colluder" making a return.

What are they going to say when most of the Trump campaign is in jail? It'll be fun to see.

I don't think Mueller gives a fuck about them moving the goalposts or making shit up.

[Breccia]

Group has Podesta links, buckle up for "Hillary was the real colluder" making a return.

They can try, but they'll need to lie to do such. The Russians indicted took out zero ads for Clinton, one for Stein, the rest for Trump. Also, WikiLeaks. Claiming Clinton colluded is objectively against all evidence from Russia's actions so far.