Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Katsutomai]

Also.. Something REALLY BIG, Jeezy911.. Huge, even.

The attorney-client privilege protects most communications between clients and their lawyers. But, according to the crime-fraud exception to the privilege, a client’s communication to their attorney isn’t privileged if they made it with the intention of committing or covering up a crime or fraud.

[Lynarii]

I find it amusing how some people seem to think that attorney-client privilege is an inviolate thing guaranteed by the Constitution. It's not. They do not like violating it, there are a lot of restrictions put in place before you can legally do so, but it can be done. If a person asks their lawyer to commit a crime on their behalf, and the lawyer does so, that is NOT something that is going to be waved off as protected communication.

[NYC17]

Also.. Something REALLY BIG, Jeezy911.. Huge, even.

The attorney-client privilege protects most communications between clients and their lawyers. But, according to the crime-fraud exception to the privilege, a client’s communication to their attorney isn’t privileged if they made it with the intention of committing or covering up a crime or fraud.

Trumpeteers are also prone to believing that any communication between Trump and Cohen would be considered privileged simply because he is Trump's attorney. They are so woefully unprepared for this argument that discussing the basics with them will be an exercise in futility.

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I find it amusing how some people seem to think that attorney-client privilege is an inviolate thing guaranteed by the Constitution. It's not. They do not like violating it, there are a lot of restrictions put in place before you can legally do so, but it can be done. If a person asks their lawyer to commit a crime on their behalf, and the lawyer does so, that is NOT something that is going to be waved off as protected communication.

It's just sad how situations like this expose the absolute lack of comprehension some people have about basic legal things. Even worse however, is that they then supposedly research things in a way that they believe supports their ignorance, when all it really does is shine a massive spotlight on it.

Delusion is a hell of a drug.

[Milchshake]

Wondering what the republicans are on watching on Fox State TV while rest of the country unpacks the Cohen Raid?




Thats one hella mad Panda. I'm sure Glenn Greenwald is the next guest. He's like a less mad, but more smarmy Panda.

[NYC17]

Wondering what the republicans are on watching on Fox State TV while rest of the country unpacks the Cohen Raid?




Thats one hella mad Panda. I'm sure Glenn Greenwald is the next guest. He's like a less mad, but more smarmy Panda.

[melodramocracy]

That this search warrant happened at the direction of an attorney appointed by Trump is spectacular. He sure seems nervous for someone who apparently had no idea that a payment for a fling that never happened.

[NYC17]

That this search warrant happened at the direction of an attorney appointed by Trump is spectacular. He sure seems nervous for someone who apparently had no idea that a payment for a fling that never happened.

Not just appointed by Trump, but personally interviewed prior to his appointment. Which was a pretty ridiculous and controversial move. So it's not like he can blame it on Sessions or anyone else.

[masterhorus8]

Not just appointed by Trump, but personally interviewed prior to his appointment. Which was a pretty ridiculous and controversial move. So it's not like he can blame it on Sessions or anyone else.

C'mon. You know he will.

[NYC17]

C'mon. You know he will.

Hmm, fair enough.

[Stormspark]

Trumpeteers are also prone to believing that any communication between Trump and Cohen would be considered privileged simply because he is Trump's attorney. They are so woefully unprepared for this argument that discussing the basics with them will be an exercise in futility.

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It's just sad how situations like this expose the absolute lack of comprehension some people have about basic legal things. Even worse however, is that they then supposedly research things in a way that they believe supports their ignorance, when all it really does is shine a massive spotlight on it.

Delusion is a hell of a drug.

At this point I think these "people" are actually sockpuppets run by people getting paid to post.

Attorney client privilege does not apply if you conspire with your attorney to break the law.

[Dontrike]

The only reason Mueller did this is because he knows he has nothing legally on Trump so he played his hand knowing he now cannot tie Trump to the investigation in the future and satisfies the democratic pressure, but the main objective for the timing is the IG report must be coming soon.

More conspiracy talk from Jeezy how the investigation has to be shut down. You've been doing this song and dance for the last year and each moment you've been proven wrong. Glad you're back though, it's fun having someone to prove wrong constantly and was boring without you Trumplestiltskins.

[Breccia]

Attorney–client privilege is dead!

-- a 7AM tweet from a whimpering, scared little boy

[Dontrike]

Attorney–client privilege is dead!

-- a 7AM tweet from a whimpering, scared little boy

Saw this just before you posted it. It is hilarious. His next tweet is nothing but WITCH HUNT!

[Breccia]

Axios goes into detail about that, erm, statement? Trump made in front of his security team.

1) Used the term "disgrace/disgraceful" nine times in a few minutes. Did not use "pour" for some reason.
2) Used "we'll see what happens" when asked if he was going to fire Mueller. Again, Trump likes to pretend he's not in charge when an ugly decision is being made.
3) Said he did the right thing by firing Comey. "Well, I turned out to do the right thing, because if you look at all of the things that he's done and the lies, and you look at what's gone on at the FBI with the insurance policy and all of the things that happened — turned out I did the right thing."
4) The Sessions thing.
5) He said the FBI "broke in". That's not how lawfully-executed search warrants work.
6) He asked why the FBI wasn't going after Clinton. No, really, he did. Re-watch the video.
7) And -- this is the big one -- finally got around to discussing Syria. That's right: Trump whining about a lawfully-executed warrant took priority at a meeting to discuss a dictator gassing children to death.

This is Trump's first big Hopeless crisis, and even if it wasn't, this was arguably the single biggest move by Mueller's investigation in Trump's narcisistic, ego-driven little mind, because this was the first time Mueller proved that Mueller could touch Trump. Axios cites several sources:

"He takes the Russia stuff as a political hit job. This was a personal affront. This was the red line."

"I've never seen him like this before. ... This is the president you're going to see more of from here on out: unvarnished, untethered."

"Mueller's investigation has been drip, drip. This was a giant leap forward ... a personal hit. ... They were moving in inches. Today, they moved a mile."

Full text here. Trump has never been closer to firing Mueller than he is right now. Whether he does or doesn't, however, Trump -- increasingly separated from cool-headed allies, lawyers, even his wife -- is about to face one thing that he's never had to face before:

Consequences for his actions.

[Flarelaine]

UPDATE:
Skroe has been banned. What's the next major shitstorm to hit Agolf Twittler?

Was it Thwart again?

[Machismo]

That's your argument? People have discussed so it's wrong. If you can't figure out how the 6th amendment ties in, you need to research some previous cases but I don't think you would be able to understand fully. The study of law is usually reserved for those in the higher IQ brackets. But I guess since Tittypopper87@twitter said it's true, you got me there.

It's ironic that Trump has long stated his disdain for that very amendment... I do enjoy the irony.

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"This has been discussed previously in the thread. It is being discussed ad nauseum by people who are able to apply critical thought to different subjects." You literally just said you get your advice from MMO Champion discussions. You are wrong on this one man, attorney client privilege has been compromised blatantly which means this case is not going toward Trump.

Actually, it can still absolutely still go after Trump. All that means, is that there was enough evidence of wrongdoing in order to break privilege. Bottom line, it means Trump's lawyer is believed to be complicit in Trump's crimes, or guilty of his own.

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The only reason Mueller did this is because he knows he has nothing legally on Trump so he played his hand knowing he now cannot tie Trump to the investigation in the future and satisfies the democratic pressure, but the main objective for the timing is the IG report must be coming soon.

That seems like quite a stretch right there.

[Breccia]

This little bit skipped right past me earlier.

The FBI and U.S. Attorney’s office on Monday also sought any emails between former White House communications director Hope Hicks and Cohen about a false and misleading account that Trump helped prepare of a June 9, 2016, meeting between Trump’s son Donald Trump, Jr. and son-in-law Jared Kushner and a group of Russians who had promised “dirt” on Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, the first source familiar with the investigation said.

Such emails would not be covered by attorney-client privilege, this source said, because Cohen did not represent Hicks.

That's right, obstruction is still on the table. If there is an email in which Cohen and Hicks discuss how to obstruct justice with, or for, Trump, not only do they both get arrested, but Cohen's ability to protect Trump further takes a nose-dive -- everything he's done becomes evidence.

[Dontrike]

This little bit skipped right past me earlier.



That's right, obstruction is still on the table. If there is an email in which Cohen and Hicks discuss how to obstruct justice with, or for, Trump, not only do they both get arrested, but Cohen's ability to protect Trump further takes a nose-dive -- everything he's done becomes evidence.

It just keeps getting better.

[Flarelaine]

Right. There goes Berman's nomination...

It it does, he also just sealed one in the next administration.

[Breccia]

This opinion piece talks about a few things.

1) Not only is there an exception for lawyer-client confidentiality when both are committing a crime or fraud -- yes, Cohen is accused of fraud -- it also only works when you're acting as the lawyer. Not as a friend. If, as Trump said, Cohen paid Daniels personally, if he was going after that $20 million for himself, then he wasn't representing Trump, and everything about the Daniels case becomes 100% fair game.

"Whew! That lets Trump off the hook!"

Not entirely. See, once Cohen's actions with Daniels are fair game to search through, Mueller can comb every page, every line, looking for any evidence that Cohen was, in fact, working with Trump on this. Should he find such, and evidence of a crime -- such as campaign fund misappropriation, a felony -- Trump's right back in the fire.

2) Mueller's done this before, with Melissa Laurenza, formerly Manafort's lawyer now Mueller's witness. More details here.

3) Reportedly, Mueller went to Rosenstein first. Rosenstein is in charge of what does, and what doesn't, fall under Mueller's investigation. Rosenstein was the one who threw this to New York, a state, and state crimes can't be pardoned. Plus, since Trump personally interviewed and hired the NYAG involved, there can't be claims of bias. Well, not legitimate ones, anyhow.

4) The Steele dossier says Cohen personally met with Russians in 2016.

5) And finally...Cohen might just be bait. The author conjectures that Mueller, working with the state's AG to protect himself, might be trying to draw Trump to attempt to fire him, or trying to pardon Cohen, either way handing him all the obstruction evidence he needs.