Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[zealo]

Are you talking about the US here?

He's just baiting people.

The US weren't among the countries involved in the process that led to Belgium as a separate thing from the Netherlands.

[Northern Goblin]

Your life would end without U.S movies, tv shows, social media, games, music or food.

Culture Dominance.

No it wouldn't. Plenty of all of the above is produced globally at an exceptionally high quality.

What America does is mass produce it, and not always at a high quality level.

[Mighty Tim]

For something made up there they found a fair amount of corruption and indictments along the way. This is what I don't get why are Trump Supporters in this thread thinking so small by saying "Waste of Time...nothing burger!". Like the talking point is set up not to age well...

Yes they found tax fraud your right. That isn't going to stop people from ruthlessly mocking people who said " muh russians" for a long,long time to come.

[Slant]

Why are against it fully coming out?

Where did I say that? But someone's setting themselves up for disappointment... not naming any names...

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That's not what the letter about the report said, so I'm not really sure why you're saying that. I'll reiterate: the quote from the report says the SCO "did not establish" which is pretty specific wording which means, "beyond a reasonable doubt." That's not the same as the SCO saying they don't have "clear and convincing" evidence, or that the "preponderance of the evidence" doesn't say trump conspired with foreign powers to undermine the legitimacy of the election, both of which, are standards of proof that are also used in the US legal system (and one is used far more commonly than "beyond a reasonable doubt"). There's no jeopardy of prison time for impeachment hearings, so I don't know why people default to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" burden of proof here (by people, I don't mean the SCO, as they were investigating the issues as if they were going to be prosecuted in criminal court... as they were bringing criminal suits).

Are you clinging on to the idea that Trump will ever face consequences for his actions? The media here is pretty convinced Muller's report can be summarized as "Nothing to see here, if you want to slap your dick on his face, you'll have to do it politically in 2020 and stop fucking calling me to do your dirty work..."

Or something like that. I may have paraphrased a little.

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You appear to be slightly confused about what is happening.

Mueller has not said anything publicly, nor handed out anything to the public. He submitted his entire report to the AG (William Barr). Said report has not been publicly released.

What we have publicly available is a supposed summary (written without consulting Mueller) of that report produced by the AG, who has been involved in Republican crimes (e.g. Iran-Contra) going back to Reagan and H.W. Bush and who doesn't even think it's possible for the president to obstruct justice.

I don't know about you, but I don't regard such a man as being particularly credible.

He's the AG. He better back his shit up, because the report is going to be highly publicized and he's got an entire nation of lawyers verifying that he's not bullshitting anyone. And you think he just makes stuff up? In that position? Personally, I find that highly (!) unlikely. When the AG says there's no evidence, that's kind of the big deal, cos... he's kind of the guy that has to bring charges to the table. No charges, no court. See, you may disagree with him, but you're not the one starting the investigation now, are you?

Keep holding onto that straw, though. It may save your hopes.

[Toppy]

Where did I say that? But someone's setting themselves up for disappointment... not naming any names...

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Are you clinging on to the idea that Trump will ever face consequences for his actions? The media here is pretty convinced Muller's report can be summarized as "Nothing to see here, if you want to slap your dick on his face, you'll have to do it politically in 2020 and stop fucking calling me to do your dirty work..."

Or something like that. I may have paraphrased a little.

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He's the AG. He better back his shit up, because the report is going to be highly publicized and he's got an entire nation of lawyers verifying that he's not bullshitting anyone. And you think he just makes stuff up? In that position? Personally, I find that highly (!) unlikely. When the AG says there's no evidence, that's kind of the big deal, cos... he's kind of the guy that has to bring charges to the table. No charges, no court. See, you may disagree with him, but you're not the one starting the investigation now, are you?

Keep holding onto that straw, though. It may save your hopes.

What can they dig up if he has full access to the report and no one else does?

[Slant]

What can they dig up if he has full access to the report and no one else does?

Be patient, the media will get it eventually. It will be disappointing, though. I think that much is clear now.

[Bodakane]

Anyone else curious why Trump would obstruct justice if he was innocent of collusion?

The obvious answer is that he is guilty of other things and knows it. My guess is it is related to his tax returns.

The longer it takes for them to release the report to Congress, the more obvious his guilt is.

[Ravenblade]

If Trump didn't attempt to obstruct justice, if he didn't throw tantrums about this investigation and attack Mueller whenever he could then most people wouldn't have strongly suspected or been convinced him being in fact an agent of Russia in the first place. He's like the innocent guy accused of bank robbery shouting: "Everybody to the floor! Nobody moves! I am really, really not armed!". I don't see the report as entirely fruitless though, his boot-licking henchmen who helped lifting him into office are enjoying prolonged holidays at 8 square meters now. Eventually the contents of the report will be dripping into the media landscape. The report doesn't change the fact that he's a con-man who doesn't go to work without his Twitter belt and has a track-record of shady practices, and being an otherworldly president in general.

[Ihavewaffles]

Anyone else curious why Trump would obstruct justice if he was innocent of collusion?

The obvious answer is that he is guilty of other things and knows it. My guess is it is related to his tax returns.

The longer it takes for them to release the report to Congress, the more obvious his guilt is.

Conspiracy theories aren't allowed in this forum.

[Slant]

Conspiracy theories aren't allowed in this forum.

Neither is back-seat moderation, but who cares, eh?

[Benggaul]

The fact that there was nothing to the Russia story makes things all the more depressing. They can just MAKE SHIT UP for YEARS and get away with it. They have already resumed telling their lies without a single, substantive repercussion.

Saying "there was nothing to the Russia story" is not a fact. It's an opinion that ignores evidence to the contrary. The Trump Tower meetings, the contacts Jr., Manafort and Cohen made, etc. all point to some pretty shady business. There was not, however, ENOUGH evidence to lay "collusion" at the feet of Trump and his campaign. Fair enough, I accept that Mueller did a thorough job in investigating that point even though the major focus of the investigation was meant to be whether or not Trump obstructed justice--which, according to Barr--Mueller is unable to exonerate him of.

I suspect the reason he is "not exonerated" as opposed to "guilty of" has to do with the fact that there are clear instances of him obstructing justice (witness tampering on Twitter, telling Comey to end the Russia investigation) but these were not deemed "severe" enough to warrant pursuing.

I wonder personally if Mueller decided all of the bank fraud, financial shenanigans and such his investigation turned up on Trump and then handed over to SDNY would end up being punishment enough. Trump is pretty fucked once he's out of office one way or the other.

All of this, as well as the dozens of pages here since the announcement, is pure conjecture as the full report has not been made public. We have no way of knowing. Hope Pelosi manages to wrangle some sort of concession in terms of the report being as transparent to the public as possible.

[Bodakane]

Conspiracy theories aren't allowed in this forum.

How is that a conspiracy?

Even his own AG, the ONLY person to read the report, has said he is not exonerated of obstruction.

I know you guys hate facts and all....

[zenkai]

Mueller report: Trump triumphant after being cleared of collusion

Does this mean the US voters can focus on real topics?

[DocSavageFan]

Time to investigate those who intentionally used uncorroborated "evidence" as a means to weaponize the FBI for purely political reasons (i.e. TDS). And Barr isn't going to let this kind of abuse pass...people will go to jail over this. I personally hope he assigns a special prosecutor...and hey...if there's a shitload of process crimes that occur as a result...so be it. Hmmm....I wonder if Brennan ever lied about his finances on a mortgage loan application.

Graham said it best in his recent tweet to Comey..."See you soon." This isn't over.

[Bodakane]

Time to investigate those who intentionally used uncorroborated "evidence" as a means to weaponize the FBI for purely political reasons (i.e. TDS). And Barr isn't going to let this kind of abuse pass...people will go to jail over this. I personally hope he assigns a special prosecutor...and hey...if there's a shitload of process crimes that occur as a result...so be it. Hmmm....I wonder if Brennan ever lied about his finances on a mortgage loan application.

Graham said it best in his recent tweet to Comey..."See you soon." This isn't over.

You repubs don't want to set that precedent.

No wait, you absolutely do. Please do it.

[Kaleredar]

Mueller report: Trump triumphant after being cleared of collusion

Does this mean the US voters can focus on real topics?

...Like Trump's obstruction of justice?

[zenkai]

...Like Trump's obstruction of justice?

More like obstruction from a witch hunt?

[Breccia]

Anyone else curious why Trump would obstruct justice if he was innocent of collusion?

Let's pretend, for now, that Barr is not hiding anything and that Trump did not collude with Russia in any way.

One, this is still pretty damning, because Trump hired Russian agents at the highest level -- Manafort, Flynn, Cohen (Trump Tower Moscow), arguably Sessions, etc -- and had zero idea. This is the best outcome he could have hoped for based on what's happened so far, and it still makes him the clueless idiot in the White House who hired multiple Russian agents.

Two, it means he could have been trying to protect them. While you could make the argument that donating $70M to a university to get your child in is bad, firing the head of the FBI because they might find out the people you hired at the highest levels of government were Russian agents -- which, again, in this scenario we're pretending Trump did not know -- is worse. Far worse. Like, felony worse. And not even Barr's 4-page summary claims this didn't happen, only that Mueller couldn't prove it.

Three, it could be about his ego. Nobody wanted to be the guy under Nixon-level investigation because of all that stuff he did. Valid or invalid investigation (btw, this one was valid, as measured by body count) hanging over your head does make you look bad. Problem is, firing Comey because he was making you look bad is arguably even worse than firing Comey because he might find out the people you hired at the highest level were Russian agents.

And this is what the rabid fanbase are cheering as a victory. Their best case scenario -- which, again, we don't know is true, only that Barr claims Mueller claims he couldn't prove it in a court of law -- is that Trump, who unwittingly hired multiple Russian agents at the highest levels of government, either fired Comey before he found out, or fired Comey for making him look bad. Both of which are still quite damning, above and beyond "Trump hired multiple Russian agents at the highest levels of government".

[Kaleredar]

More like obstruction from a witch hunt?

Obstructing legal proceedings is obstructing legal proceedings, regardless of what they do or do not end up implying.

Of course, if that's still beyond what you deem applicable politics, we can start wondering why Trump was so clueless about his own campaign team that he hired multiple people who were guilty (by their own admission) of numerous crimes.


It's always been a question of whether Trump was knowingly hiring criminals or too stupid to know otherwise. So what is he; scum, or an idiot?

I mean my take is that he's both, but even republicans have to admit he's one or the other.

[Slant]

Hollywood studio son, Made in America.

You irrelevant Brit.

That's funny, cos British TV series are usually of higher quality than US series... Must be because their dialogue actually is good. And that British accent you guys dig so much... they gots it. Free of charge, too.