Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Bodakane]

I defend common sense. I've never liked Trump and you'll see that statement is consistent throughout my post history. I would love nothing more than if the Democrats impeached Trump. That would be a win-win for me.

No you don't defend common sense. You defend Trump.

Case in point, with all the indictments and knowing Trump's handpicked lackey said he IS NOT exonerated from crimes, you still are doing some stupid bullshit victory lap.

[Grapemask]

It's not a cop out. The "non-standard prosecutorial decision" was that he thought it should go to congress... because that's what the precedent was. Barr literally doesn't believe the president can obstruct justice by ordering an investigation to be closed, or for firing someone for investigating him. His views on obstruction are why he was appointed.

When people start talking about this going to Congress, I really hope they understand that there is no future to this where any meaningful action is taken against Trump. A Congressional decision, especially if it requires the Senate, is the worst possible outcome. The full report could detail Trump as having committed every crime outlined in every state and federal code, it could state that it found Trump directly transferring classified documents to Putin on WhatsApp, it could say he illegally funnels money through the White House kitchen, but so long as the conclusion is left to Congress, they will never take significant action against Trump. Best case scenario, they all yell really loudly about how much they disapprove, maybe they let it get to a Senate vote, then they sacrifice just enough players who are running in competitive states but not enough to pass it. The only hope this ever had was if Mueller came to a definitive conclusion himself, or if he indicted someone undeniably close to Trump.

Good take.

There are some of us on the left who have admitted defeat since 2016 and are disappointed with the lack of introspection from the left and refusal to "out-policy" the other side. I don't see the left wrestling back any significant power any time soon so maybe this will be a good time for them to learn and adapt.

Listen. You've simultaneously claimed to be on the right and left in this thread alone, and while I don't play whatever the leftwing version is of "everyone who doesn't mindlessly support our policy is a RINO, EJECT," it's clear that you're playing the intellectually dishonest propaganda art that specifically the alt right has mastered. Cut it out.

[Pazazu]

We didn't waste money we got 48 million in assets while the investigation cost 25 million. What false information? The problem is republicans never get conviction or assets they just burn money to burn money. If the investigation caught criminals and locked them up or made money, I wouldn't care but they do the exact opposite. They've spend over 30 million investigating clintons so far.

They are also starting the investigation in late 2019 to play poltical games. Rather than as soon as possible if they really is wrong doing.

The investigation into Trumps and his families charities made money as well. Every investigation into trump makes a profit so far but we got nothing on Hillary after wasting 30 million+

Whitewater alone cost over 70 million. The most prominent Benghazi investigation ran up 7 million, and that was just 1 of 8. All told, the State Department spent around 14 million in defense for the various Benghazi investigations. Next time some shitbag whines about how much the Special Counsel cost while simultaneously chanting "Lock Her Up!" kindly point out that the GoP's attempts at doing just that have already cost us over 100 million trying to do just that and came up with an actual nothingburger. Also point out that had the GoP had it's way, Whitewater would have continued on for a few more years at an even more exorbitant cost were it not for the Rey Report finally shutting it down.

[Endus]

When people start talking about this going to Congress, I really hope they understand that there is no future to this where any meaningful action is taken against Trump. A Congressional decision, especially if it requires the Senate, is the worst possible outcome.

This deserved emphasis.

If there are institutional policies that suggest a sitting President can't be indicted (a bullshit idea that can do nothing but protect a scoundrel, I'll note), then impeachment is the only way to remove Trump. And impeachment is not truly about justice. It could be, with representatives who vote their conscience rather than any consideration for party allegiance, but we've clearly seen that most Republicans will not act that way. The Senate can't be relied on to support any such proceeding, which means any such impeachment would likely fail, no matter the evidence. Better to not give Trump that "win" at all.

Better to wait until 2020 and Trump not being re-elected, and file indictments the moment he's out of office. This also evades any chance of Trump issuing pardons for anyone else caught up in such. As long as the statute of limitations on the crimes in question hasn't expired in that time, it's shitty, but justice will still come.

[roboscorcher]

Oh boy another accusation that I'm a fox news Trump supporter...these never get old.

I never said that either. But it's impossible to deny that Fox has been laser-focussed on AOC since the day she took office. It would not surprise me if they spin off a show just for her soon. Why is she wrong for fighting back?

[Ragedaug]

Yes, because one person is a member of a political campaign actively taking meetings with representatives from a foreign government offering support for the campaign, which is illegal. The other is a research firm that is not bound by the same laws or restrictions and if they had similar meetings to try to get information out of her that's allowed.

You're basically upset that normal behavior is normal and doesn't validate your incorrect views of how things "should be". Because you're continuing to mischaracterize almost everything.

The meeting between Don Jr. and the Russian Lawyer is no more illegal than the Lawyer meeting with Fusion and no more illegal than Ted Kennedy's memos to the Russians. Getting oppo info from other governments isn't illegal. If it was, Clinton would be just as guilty. Don Jr. is getting paid by a campaign, the same way Fusion was getting paid by the other campaign. His relationship to the nominee doesn't impact anything. I'm not sure why you would think there are different rules.

[lockedout]

Glad you agree Trump is far more crooked than we think, and we already think he is one of the most crooked.

Politicians in general, why is this hard for you to admit?

[Ragedaug]

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cns-news/

Care to try again with a credible news source?

Why? The veracity of the source doesn't change the data. The information they are quoting is from transcripts from the Senate Judiciary Committee. Do you care to try again to counter the actual information instead of attacking an irrelevant source?

[Bodakane]

Politicians in general, why is this hard for you to admit?

Why are the ways Trump is crooked more palatable for you then?

[Ragedaug]

No you don't defend common sense. You defend Trump.

Case in point, with all the indictments and knowing Trump's handpicked lackey said he IS NOT exonerated from crimes, you still are doing some stupid bullshit victory lap.

Yeah, I got no idea what you are going for here.

[Daelak]

Glenn Greenwald: Russia Collusion 'Conspiracy' Was "Saddest Media Spectacle I Have Ever Seen"

"...what makes it even sadder is to watch all the people who invested their journalistic credibility into what proved to be a complete and total fraud and scam continue to try and cling to some vestige of credibility by continuing to spin conspiracy theories..."

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lol...

And Greenwald is more obliged to trust Barr, a political appointee of Trump?

- - - Updated - - -

I think now that we've heard from the report one thing is pretty clear at this point. Mueller is on Putin's payroll too now! Why else would he say there was no collusion when I know for a fact there was. I don't know when they got to him or what they're holding over him but nobody's safe from Russias evil manipulations.

(Also, I feel we need another new "We're taking your president from you" thread in Skroes honour)

We haven't heard from the report, both the DOJ and Senate republicans are blocking the release so they stay ahead of the curve to control the messaging once it is public, since it is probably hundreds or thousands of pages long.

[Bodakane]

Yeah, I got no idea what you are going for here.

You are acting like Trump won, even though the investigation has busted a lot of people who were very influential in Trump's campaign and presidency. And his AG who was picked specifically because he was against the investigation in the first place said Trump is not exonerated of certain crimes.

Not sure why this is hard for you to understand as a defender of common sense.....

[Breccia]

Politicians in general, why is this hard for you to admit?

Trump promised to be different.

Trump promised to Drain the Swamp.

Trump promised the most transparent administration ever.

Trump said someone under FBI investigation shouldn't be even allowed to run for office.

Promise broken. Promise broken. Promise broken. Hypocrite.

Trump said he'd be different. You, like the rabid fanbase, is now using "all politicians are crooked" trying to forget that Trump was supposed to be different.

Also, "all politicians are crooked" is not a defense of Trump being crooked. Call him out, or admit you're a hypocrite. There is no third option. Sorry. I don't make the rules.

[Flarelaine]

Trump promised to be different.

Trump promised to Drain the Swamp.

Trump promised the most transparent administration ever.

Trump said someone under FBI investigation shouldn't be even allowed to run for office.

Promise broken. Promise broken. Promise broken. Hypocrite.

Trump said he'd be different. You, like the rabid fanbase, is now using "all politicians are crooked" trying to forget that Trump was supposed to be different.

Also, "all politicians are crooked" is not a defense of Trump being crooked. Call him out, or admit you're a hypocrite. There is no third option. Sorry. I don't make the rules.

muh both sides

[Grapemask]

The meeting between Don Jr. and the Russian Lawyer is no more illegal than the Lawyer meeting with Fusion and no more illegal than Ted Kennedy's memos to the Russians. Getting oppo info from other governments isn't illegal. If it was, Clinton would be just as guilty. Don Jr. is getting paid by a campaign, the same way Fusion was getting paid by the other campaign. His relationship to the nominee doesn't impact anything. I'm not sure why you would think there are different rules.

This is another round of the usual form of dishonest honesty by cherrypicking out the parts that are fine. This is the intellectually dishonest method of argument used by the Trump folks that drives me batty, because they know they're being dishonest when doing it.

Imagine I get picked up for murdering someone, and they said "We know you went into that house and stabbed that man in the face 13 times, then exited and dropped the bloody knife in a garbage bag. We have it all on tape." Imagine the sheer audacity of responding, "It's not illegal to enter or leave a building, and it's not illegal to put my belongings in a garbage bag." We can even throw in the usual Trumpian final jab, "but it's illegal that you taped me without my consent and I'm pressing charges!"

[Breccia]

muh both sides

Sarcasm or not, "both sides do it" is never, and will never, be a defense when someone does something wrong. It is an attempt to handwave, it is hypocrisy, and it's shameful on anyone ("you have 24 hours") who tries it without being sarcastic.

This isn't about self-defense ("I had to kill him or he would have killed me"). This is about trying to excuse bad behavior. Sure, everyone else might be driving 85MPH on the New Jersey Turnpike, but if you're going 85MPH and the cop pulls you over, you don't get to say "everyone else was driving 85MPH" and get off with no ticket¹.

It is, of course, even worse when the person trying the "both sides do it"
A) kept pointing at the other people showing bad behavior and saying "LOCK HER UP!", and
B) promised to show good behavior, then didn't, then tried the lame excuse "both sides do it".

"Both sides do it" is a lame-ass, limp-dick, IMPOTUS defense. It's what you use when you know you've been caught backing a loser, and it's worse in the case when you're caught backing a loser who promised to be better.

----------------------------------
¹ Driving 85MPH on the NJT is not going to get you pulled over. You have to break the sound barrier, or have a UPenn bumper sticker.

[Dontrike]

Politicians in general, why is this hard for you to admit?

I admit that Trump is a politician, is part of the "general" area of them, and that he is far more crooked than that. I think I'm admitting it pretty well. Am I speaking in wingdings? Should I make it simpler?

[0ptimo]

Do you want to add something of substance to the conversation? Or you going to continue being wrong?

except he's not

[Adam Jensen]

you haven't brought any facts of relevance just "TaKe THaT YOu dAmN LIbErALs!!!!!!!!!!" is about all your screeching.

Remember when politics was about discussion and not about trolling the "other side?" I think this is why the Founding Fathers warned against political parties, and then made the biggest blunder in American history; they formed a government that trends towards exactly two political parties. Imagine if we had a system where we had 3-5 parties. We might have some screeching extremists, but they'd be more dilluted because they wouldn't have practically half the government in their control.

[Stormspellz]

Because there wasnt any evidence at ALL!!
We literally went off the dossier that was a he said she said thing.

Dems spent all this time and now they've lost the 2020 election... You can quote me on that!!!! No wonder they want to get rid of the electoral college lol.
I PROMISE YOU. Trump has this in the bag. 2 terms because of this stupid investigation.

34 indictments, recouped more money then it cost, and the various investigations for Paige and such started years BEFORE the dossier, in fact the dossier was taken seriously because it corroborated many thing the agencies already knew.

But I can see Trump being reelected, simply because the gop cult is that stupid, and don't care about facts, reason, logic or even basic Truths: its about "feels" and Donny con-man gives them all the right "feels" to hate and/or be afraid of.