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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    The problem is it takes about 2-3 hours played to ding 70 now, its hardly a challenge at all. and if you do it without boosts your still looking at 5-8 hours played max to get from 1-70. There is no challenge and you also get fully geared so quickly its hard to have anything to strive for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I only play hardcore and have never lost a max level character, but don't really have any care if I do because I have enough gear to die 2-3 times and still be well off after releveling. There is no real feel of "Oh No I died, all that time lost and I will never be that powerful again".
    And the problem is not even that. Challenging or not, everything falls down when you reach the endgame and you're done in a few hours, and the only thing left is to run the same procedurally generated dungeon over and over for a +1 version of your already owned item or a gem upgrade (like a crappy korean f2p mmo). You don't feel stronger at all, and you don't have any push to actually get stronger.

    I'll bring an example: in Grim Dawn, endgame is more or less the same, you grind endgame roguelike dungeons for those elusive items, or Nemesis bosses for specific upgrades. However, the whole game flow is as different as it can be. You start with your character and at level 2 you are already presented with a major choice (first class) and it will have a simple but effective skill tree you can build in your way. Then at level 10 you are presented with a second class choice that simply makes that specific character unique. I could create another char, level it to 10, choose the same classes and build it differently from the first one - this because you won't have enough points to unlock all, but you need to choose what you really want to use.

    Add on top of that the Devotion system that while being equal for every character again gives you an amount of points to spend on constellations that give you a variety of passive too boost you character or procs to tie to an ability of your choice making it even more powerful. You can use it to cover "holes" in your build or to enhance even more the strong feats.

    Game has the old style "three difficulties" setup, and it may be possible that your build doesn't really behave well in Ultimate (but usually it's just because you didn't invest enough on physique/defense XD) but the point is that you're completely involved in build your character from minute 1 to the point you want to roll another.

    Big distinction is also itemization. You may find game-changing uniques and sets, but they all boosts specific skills/damage types or entire classes (+X to skills), so independently from what you choose to use, you're going to search items that actually improve your own build.

    D3 is the complete opposite. You get the class, the whole skillset is unlocked and fixed, you choose a set (thus a build) and play it until exhausted - and all happens in a very short time, especially if you know beforehand that the Y build is the strongest.

    That's why D3 is in the current state. That's why D2 is still acclaimed. That's why PoE is considered the true Diablo successor (while leaning towards the hardcore side, you can really fail at the game if you build incorrectly). That's why GD and other games are more player retention.

    That's why Blizzard has barebone support and is working full throttle on a new game, hopefully getting it right this time.
    Why worry about the future when you can just asfatatotl.

  2. #22
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    That's because it's not the classes, the combat flow, the graphics or the gameplay (well, it's a little the gameplay) but it's due to how little value there is to actually do anything in game.
    Yeah, pretty much. I came back for a bit this season, because my favourite build got HUGE buffs... Played season, got the set and supporting gear fairly quickly, cleared up to ~Grift 60 with fair ease... Got bored and stopped playing.

    This is basically what happens to me every season. They need to either HUGELY shake up the game play (not happening) or release a new game/mode (potentially coming, although probably not any time soon) if they want to boost their player retention to decent levels.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I think necro was the last asset left for reuse/finishing from the scrapped second expansion, like all the zones/features we have seen over time added to the game - they tried to monetize it a little just to recover from the effort/resources spent.
    All too possible, and regrettably a wrench in the works for more classes added to D3.

    I do see the potential for this kind of DLC for keeping D3 relevant, but there's not a great enough demand in the community else we would have seen a full new expansion (or more). I'm still hopeful, but the prospects of seeing them dedicate art resources in creating a Druid for D3 seems a little too late now that we know they have a new project in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    Yeah, pretty much. I came back for a bit this season, because my favourite build got HUGE buffs... Played season, got the set and supporting gear fairly quickly, cleared up to ~Grift 60 with fair ease... Got bored and stopped playing.

    This is basically what happens to me every season. They need to either HUGELY shake up the game play (not happening) or release a new game/mode (potentially coming, although probably not any time soon) if they want to boost their player retention to decent levels.
    Adding even another thing. In a game like PoE there are obviously cookie cutter builds that are sometimes extremely more efficient that the "average joe build". However usually those build require quite a lot of effort/trading/farming before actually being able to play them; plus, if you don't play them it's not like you're cut out of stuff - the only way to not be objectively able to do everything is to make a bad build; something that can be avoided with some research or even asking in chat. Also, GGG is not afraid to break down stuff that's clearly OP even if it takes quite some time (Vaal Pact anyone?)

    In D3 you CAN make a build that's not the meta. There are also items that have clear synergies between them and it's easy to spot them. The point is that they're useless since there's that easily obtainable combination that it's 1000x stronger. They're not even going to be used as stepping stones because it's so easy to get your drops you're not even going to bother. Plus all the balance that happens is to get the underpowered items and increase multipliers - while it works, it's avery bland way to make things usable, just then another meta comes out and everyone jumps on that.

    Again, there's a complete lack of value in doing anything in D3. Farming items has sense until you get your combo of choice and then you're done. In PoE you're simply not done for a very long time.
    Why worry about the future when you can just asfatatotl.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Again, there's a complete lack of value in doing anything in D3. Farming items has sense until you get your combo of choice and then you're done. In PoE you're simply not done for a very long time.
    Indeed. I mean I started this season a bit late... a couple of hours in and I was level capped, a day or so after that with a little help from a friend I'd cleared up to Grift 40 and was farming with ease. Had my full set within a day.

    In contrast, I played started a new char on PoE when Oriath came out... Still not max level and has NOWHERE near complete gear.

    They say you don't value what you don't have to work for. I think that sums up... Basically every character I've got on D3.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    -snip-
    The "let me explore" part in D3 is completely missing. First character was a blast in vanilla, but never felt the need to roll another when i did Paragon 100 on my DH. RoS made things thousands of times better, first seasons were a blast and we also weren't that used to them.

    But then every season is the same, conquests got progressively easier due to constant buffs and everyhing just sped up. So people just got bored.

    It's normal that a game dwindles in population after a while; but after the post-RoS exploit in adding new things (which to me just looks more and more scrapped xpack 2 content) the sudden halt in development made everything so stale and futile.

    I'm going to roll a new PoE character because i want to try something different from what i was used to play and see how far i can go. In D3 i just choose another set (which has been recently changed because now i have played them all quite a while) and run it. Only class i didn't done it is the Necro because i don't really see the point in doing so, since i know beforehand everything will last for a short time.
    Why worry about the future when you can just asfatatotl.

  7. #27
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    The "let me explore" part in D3 is completely missing. First character was a blast in vanilla, but never felt the need to roll another when i did Paragon 100 on my DH. RoS made things thousands of times better, first seasons were a blast and we also weren't that used to them.
    For sure, I think this is the top thing they need to address. There's no sense of... wonder? left in D3. Everything is so focused on efficiency now, that going outside of the lines is a drastic loss in time/power.

    I mean they go through the effort of making new zones and adding them, but there's no reason to GO to them outside of the occasional bounty. Even then you're not going to explore. You'll port in, follow the arrow to your objective, complete it and move on.
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  8. #28
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    stopped playing after they stopped support on xbox 360...so no love for me. but id like to see druid as well.
    “Listen, three eyes,” he said, “don’t you try to outweird me, I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal.”

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    For sure, I think this is the top thing they need to address. There's no sense of... wonder? left in D3. Everything is so focused on efficiency now, that going outside of the lines is a drastic loss in time/power.

    I mean they go through the effort of making new zones and adding them, but there's no reason to GO to them outside of the occasional bounty. Even then you're not going to explore. You'll port in, follow the arrow to your objective, complete it and move on.
    I found a couple days of content trying for self made goals like getting every set for a character, doing the mastery dungeons, farming the cow level, trying to build a whimsyshire staff, stuff like that. I want to get another stash slot but I'm burned out again. You can play the achievement game, but that gets stale fast. I've found all the cosmetic stuff. I don't care about the ladder. I guess it's "See ya for Season 13, maybe."

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadzooks View Post
    I found a couple days of content trying for self made goals like getting every set for a character,
    Of course, you can always find something to do, if you really think about it... The point is you shouldn't HAVE to! There should be things to do in the game that aren't just spamming bounties and/or rifts.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Adding even another thing. In a game like PoE there are obviously cookie cutter builds that are sometimes extremely more efficient that the "average joe build". However usually those build require quite a lot of effort/trading/farming before actually being able to play them; plus, if you don't play them it's not like you're cut out of stuff - the only way to not be objectively able to do everything is to make a bad build; something that can be avoided with some research or even asking in chat. Also, GGG is not afraid to break down stuff that's clearly OP even if it takes quite some time (Vaal Pact anyone?)

    In D3 you CAN make a build that's not the meta. There are also items that have clear synergies between them and it's easy to spot them. The point is that they're useless since there's that easily obtainable combination that it's 1000x stronger. They're not even going to be used as stepping stones because it's so easy to get your drops you're not even going to bother. Plus all the balance that happens is to get the underpowered items and increase multipliers - while it works, it's avery bland way to make things usable, just then another meta comes out and everyone jumps on that.

    Again, there's a complete lack of value in doing anything in D3. Farming items has sense until you get your combo of choice and then you're done. In PoE you're simply not done for a very long time.
    Everything about Diablo 3's loot is bad, it used to be there were some crazier builds that used under appreciated items in a unique way to be effective (they were rare, still not enough of them), but as it stands now they've all been removed, you have to get a 6 piece set and then the two non-set piece items that buff whatever skill that is buffed by the set (these are non-negotiable since the set buffs damage by 3000% damage and the two other items buff the damage by another 400-700% and offer some utility like cost reduction or cooldown reduction), there probably is some sort of ring that gives you ridiculous damage reduction on use of a spammable ability, now your build is complete and then everything else you find is completely useless.

    Diablo 3 is the game you get if you try to avoid allowing players to make a meaningful choice.

  12. #32
    The necromancer was a huge letdown in terms of reviving d3.

    I think they have to work on D4 or something else within the Diablo universe
    Vanilla fanboy - NOT a purist.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    you have to get a 6 piece set and then the two non-set piece items that buff whatever skill that is buffed by the set (these are non-negotiable since the set buffs damage by 3000% damage
    6 piece set? Ring of Royal Grandeur? Barb Wrath of the Wastes set gives a big boost to Rend, nobody using WotW bothers getting anything else that boosts Rend, so...guess those are negotiable?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    6 piece set? Ring of Royal Grandeur? Barb Wrath of the Wastes set gives a big boost to Rend, nobody using WotW bothers getting anything else that boosts Rend, so...guess those are negotiable?
    So you can get that one piece of gear to adjust the formula a bit. Yup, what you said is true, but it barely scratches the surface when it comes to item flexibility. You're still relying on a 6-piece set bonus. You're still relying on legendaries to amp whatever is amped from your set.

    I guess LotN loadouts are different. Cool.


    The sheer quantity of legendaries you get over the course of playing a character that are just fodder for forgotten souls is a constant ear-splitting cry for help from this game. You trash legendary gear all. the. damn. time. Legendary gear.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    The sheer quantity of legendaries you get over the course of playing a character that are just fodder for forgotten souls is a constant ear-splitting cry for help from this game. You trash legendary gear all. the. damn. time. Legendary gear.
    Welcome to the universe of Diablo. Remember all the uniques most people didn't even even bother picking up in D2 if they weren't either new to the game or doing something like iron man where they can ONLY use what they find on that specific character?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    Welcome to the universe of Diablo. Remember all the uniques most people didn't even even bother picking up in D2 if they weren't either new to the game or doing something like iron man where they can ONLY use what they find on that specific character?
    I don't remember it being nearly in the same category as D3 tbh.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    I don't remember it being nearly in the same category as D3 tbh.
    These are the unique swords available in D2 from 1.10 onwards:Rixot's Keen, Blood Crescent, Skewer of Krinitiz, Gleamscythe, Grizwold's Edge, Hellplague, Culwen's Point, Shadowfang, Soulflay, Kinemil's Awl, Blacktongue, Ripsaw, The Patriarch, Bloodletter, Coldsteel Eye, Hexfire, Blade of Ali Baba, Ginther's Rift, Headstriker, Plague Bearer, The Atlantean, Crainte Vomir, Bing Sz Wang, The Vile Husk, Cloudcrack, Todesfaelle Flamme, Swordguard, Djinn Slayer, Bloodmoon, Lightsabre, Azurewrath, Frostwind, Flamebellow, Doombringer, The Grandfather.

    That's 35 unique swords. Out of that list, from 1.10 on, if you're not a new player, the ones people were likely to do anything with other than leave behind or vendor:Azurewrath, Blade of Ali Baba, Lightsabre. Kinimil's Awl saw a brief resurgence when the demand for chipped gems got high, but fell out of favor again once chipped gem demand dropped.

    And of those 3 swords, none of them were usually used as main weapon. Azurewrath is typically a swap weapon for dealing with physical immunes, Lightsabre was sometimes used by duelers for the Lightning Absorb, and Blade of Ali Baba was a weapon swap for magic finders. Pre-1.10, before runewords were anything to take seriously, The Grandfather was somewhat desired, and several of those other swords weren't in game yet(and Azurewrath was a low level weapon nobody wanted).

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    These are the unique swords available in D2 from 1.10 onwards:Rixot's Keen, Blood Crescent, Skewer of Krinitiz, Gleamscythe, Grizwold's Edge, Hellplague, Culwen's Point, Shadowfang, Soulflay, Kinemil's Awl, Blacktongue, Ripsaw, The Patriarch, Bloodletter, Coldsteel Eye, Hexfire, Blade of Ali Baba, Ginther's Rift, Headstriker, Plague Bearer, The Atlantean, Crainte Vomir, Bing Sz Wang, The Vile Husk, Cloudcrack, Todesfaelle Flamme, Swordguard, Djinn Slayer, Bloodmoon, Lightsabre, Azurewrath, Frostwind, Flamebellow, Doombringer, The Grandfather.

    That's 35 unique swords. Out of that list, from 1.10 on, if you're not a new player, the ones people were likely to do anything with other than leave behind or vendor:Azurewrath, Blade of Ali Baba, Lightsabre. Kinimil's Awl saw a brief resurgence when the demand for chipped gems got high, but fell out of favor again once chipped gem demand dropped.

    And of those 3 swords, none of them were usually used as main weapon. Azurewrath is typically a swap weapon for dealing with physical immunes, Lightsabre was sometimes used by duelers for the Lightning Absorb, and Blade of Ali Baba was a weapon swap for magic finders. Pre-1.10, before runewords were anything to take seriously, The Grandfather was somewhat desired, and several of those other swords weren't in game yet(and Azurewrath was a low level weapon nobody wanted).
    I miss level 15 azurewrath. Always used to use that while leveling.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    Everything about Diablo 3's loot is bad, it used to be there were some crazier builds that used under appreciated items in a unique way to be effective (they were rare, still not enough of them), but as it stands now they've all been removed, you have to get a 6 piece set and then the two non-set piece items that buff whatever skill that is buffed by the set (these are non-negotiable since the set buffs damage by 3000% damage and the two other items buff the damage by another 400-700% and offer some utility like cost reduction or cooldown reduction), there probably is some sort of ring that gives you ridiculous damage reduction on use of a spammable ability, now your build is complete and then everything else you find is completely useless.

    Diablo 3 is the game you get if you try to avoid allowing players to make a meaningful choice.
    I find this one of my biggest issues as well. The gearing feels good when you get an upgrade, but is unfulfilling in knowing that you have to know your build before you look for gear. Everything is so dependant on having the right gear that there's no exploration of unique builds and trying to make it work. With the Grift system and the leaderboards, it makes it even less likely to ever use a 'fun' build for any other purpose than a stepping stone towards an end-game build.

    A lot of that power should be folded into the skills and have Legendaries simply be modifiers like they used to be. They should be left as gameplay style changers as they were originally intended to be in Loot 2.0, like a Legendary that splits your magic missile into spread shots that are all a bit weaker, or making an ability deal double damage at the cost of higher cooldown. At this point, no one really uses any non-set legendaries outside of ZDPS or the odd LoN build (which still requires Ancients...)

    I just wish the itemization was a bit more open so that my optimal Crusader build doesn't have to be some gimmick revolving around a bunch of overtuned legendaries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  20. #40
    new future class? i thought blizzard were abandoning diablo.

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