Republican Tax Plan Revealed

[Release]

I'm just thinking to myself what would happen if the government here in the UK proposed this tax bill and it became law. I think there would literally be rioting in the streets. Man of the people Trump though keeping it real increasing the national debt to aid his corporate American buddies. My lord.

[Therec]

Them taking out the "fuck you" to grad students and being allowed to deduct state and local taxes alleviates my concerns about the bill. I will selfishly enjoy getting more back, but Im 99% confident that this won't pay for itself and will put the US further into debt, which sucks for the future.

[Felya]

From Novemeber 2012 when Obama was reelected to the Novemeber 2016 when Trump was the stock market grew by about 6.000 points in the DOW Jones. Since Trump was elected on Novemeber 8th the stock market has added about 5.000 points in value.

How exactly is this on Trump? Obama actually inherited a Dow that was plummeting, with results of his policy, not only recovering, but tripled the Dow during his terms. At this time in Obama’s presidency, we were spiraling downward and a tax cut to the companies we were bailing out, would have bad rioting. Obama digs us out of a hole, Trump does nothing, but ride the existing increases, but you credit Trump?

But sure, insignificant and irrelevant. Mind you those 5.000 points ARE a bubble built up by the idea there will be tax cuts/reform, and it would burst extremely quickly if tax cuts and jobs act failed.

The bubble will burst if the demand doesn’t justify the increase. With unemployment at its lowest since the 90s, there is simply not enough to get out of the populace, to justify this increase. You are making the argument that Trump blowing up the bubble, is a good thing. That artificially increasing corporate worth, is at all similar to the record breaking growth the Dow has been experiencing for years.

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I'm just thinking to myself what would happen if the government here in the UK proposed this tax bill and it became law. I think there would literally be rioting in the streets. Man of the people Trump though keeping it real increasing the national debt to aid his corporate American buddies. My lord.

Probably something like this:

https://youtu.be/W8KLSNFmAss

[lockedout]

Well he's getting rid of the "penalty" for not having insurance.

[Dontrike]

Well he's getting rid of the "penalty" for not having insurance.

Yeah, good thing he got rid of that penalty 'cause then people will have the choice to be stupid where they actually want to pay $20+k for a simple broken arm or $80+ for simple prescriptions which they can't pay for and we end up paying for it anyways. In fact, since we love not having insurance, let's throw out the penalty for not having car insurance because apparently we're making up shit as we go along.

[Antiganon]

I see people making a false equivalence between mandatory car insurance and mandatory health insurance, and I want to clarify that.

Mandatory health insurance is insurance on your own health problems. If you get sick or injured, the insurance pays the bill (in theory).

Mandatory car insurance is liability insurance only. It covers the damage to other people and their possessions for an accident that you caused. The comparable equivalent to health insurance would be Comprehensive and/or Collision coverage, which pays you for damage to you and your property in the case of a non-driving accident (Comprehensive, e.g. a tree falls on your car) or which pays you for damage to your own property that you caused (Collision, e.g. your car is damaged in an accident where you were at fault).

In short: Health insurance is Comprehensive coverage for your body. Comprehensive coverage is not mandatory anywhere to my knowledge. The only mandatory insurance coverage is Liability, similar to the liability insurance required for businesses open to the public. It is meant to insure your ability to pay for damages that you cause to other people.

Themoreyouknow.gif

All that said, I am still in favor of the individual mandate. If you total your car, the social response is "tough shit, ride the bus". If you seriously injure yourself and go to the ER, the social response is " well shit, this dude is going to die, let's help him first and worry about payment later".

Mandatory health insurance means that while the paperwork is handled after services are rendered, the hospital isn't going to be stuck with the bill.

[lockedout]

Yeah, good thing he got rid of that penalty 'cause then people will have the choice to be stupid where they actually want to pay $20+k for a simple broken arm or $80+ for simple prescriptions which they can't pay for and we end up paying for it anyways. In fact, since we love not having insurance, let's throw out the penalty for not having car insurance because apparently we're making up shit as we go along.

The penalty was originally a fine remember but that was illegal so they changed the word. It's nonsense. You shouldn't be forced to pay for insurance.

[Antiganon]

The penalty was originally a fine remember but that was illegal so they changed the word. It's nonsense. You shouldn't be forced to pay for insurance.

The options are to force individuals to carry insurance, ensuring they pay for their own medical care, to force the entire US population to pay for their medical care via tax increases and medical cost increases (because people can, will, have, and do declare bankruptcy to escape medical bills), or to tell hospitals not to treat patients whose payment details can't be confirmed.

Pick one.

[solinari6]

The options are to force individuals to carry insurance, ensuring they pay for their own medical care, to force the entire US population to pay for their medical care via tax increases and medical cost increases (because people can, will, have, and do declare bankruptcy to escape medical bills), or to tell hospitals not to treat patients whose payment details can't be confirmed.

Pick one.

I think they actually prefer option 3: Stop mandating hospitals treat people without insurance, and just let them die (those people vote for the wrong party anyway).

[Dontrike]

The penalty was originally a fine remember but that was illegal so they changed the word. It's nonsense. You shouldn't be forced to pay for insurance.

Except we already have a system like that where you have to pay for insurance, and besides who doesn't want insurance? It's there so you don't have to pay $500+ on prescriptions and don't go into debt because you had to get your stomach pumped from eating something. That's literally the one thing you should have as an adult, so you don't go poor from having a cracked skull from a car accident.

Everyone should have fucking insurance just on their own needs alone and so that way the rest of the country doesn't need to pay for the bill you couldn't pay. Why it's almost like it's fucking smart to have it at all times for anything that's important.

[Blur4stuff]

Republicans used to be about personal responsibility. That's why conservatives created the mandate in the first place. They didn't want people leeching off the system and causing costs for everyone else to go up.

Refusing to treat people without insurance isn't an option even if we all collectively agreed to be evil assholes. In an emergency situation there isn't necessarily going to be time for such bureaucracy.

[breadisfunny]

I think they actually prefer option 3: Stop mandating hospitals treat people without insurance, and just let them die (those people vote for the wrong party anyway).

i think it says a lot when even the most evil dictatorships have universal healthcare while the u.s. does not.

[NYC17]

Well he's getting rid of the "penalty" for not having insurance.

They already made the decision to not enforce it. This was pointless political posturing.

[Themius]

I see people making a false equivalence between mandatory car insurance and mandatory health insurance, and I want to clarify that.

Mandatory health insurance is insurance on your own health problems. If you get sick or injured, the insurance pays the bill (in theory).

Mandatory car insurance is liability insurance only. It covers the damage to other people and their possessions for an accident that you caused. The comparable equivalent to health insurance would be Comprehensive and/or Collision coverage, which pays you for damage to you and your property in the case of a non-driving accident (Comprehensive, e.g. a tree falls on your car) or which pays you for damage to your own property that you caused (Collision, e.g. your car is damaged in an accident where you were at fault).

In short: Health insurance is Comprehensive coverage for your body. Comprehensive coverage is not mandatory anywhere to my knowledge. The only mandatory insurance coverage is Liability, similar to the liability insurance required for businesses open to the public. It is meant to insure your ability to pay for damages that you cause to other people.

Themoreyouknow.gif

All that said, I am still in favor of the individual mandate. If you total your car, the social response is "tough shit, ride the bus". If you seriously injure yourself and go to the ER, the social response is " well shit, this dude is going to die, let's help him first and worry about payment later".

Mandatory health insurance means that while the paperwork is handled after services are rendered, the hospital isn't going to be stuck with the bill.

This line somehow assumes that lack of people having insurance won't affects the cost of others.

[NYC17]

Oh yes I'm sure a massive corporate tax cut won't grow the economy in any way or add any jobs. Kinda like how the economy couldn't manage to grow by 3%...oh wait it's projected to grow by 4%.

Where trickle down doesn't work in this myth tax cuts will pay for themselves to help with the revenue deficit, they won't. To be clear if Paul Ryan's plan had actually been followed through and they had added in a Border Adjustment Tax, a version of a VAT which almost every country and certainly the top economies HAVE, it would have helped pay for the lost revenue AND helped manufacturing compete with other countries better.

But they didn't, so this tax bill? It's going to wreck America's finances. That's because Republicans are not serious about making the hard necessary decisions. I hope you're ready for the debt to explode and become unplayable about the same time Social Security and Medicare will also explode. Because that's the path America is on, and very few are willing to do what is necessary to fix that.

You know who employs people? Small businesses. Here's an example of what this tax bill does for a small business...

[Edit- After reviewing this I'm taking it out for now. Seems to be based off a misreading of a provision, but difficult to say.]


Also, remember the room full of CEO's making Cohn look like the Chump he is?



Also, a VAT on top of an income tax? Yea, fuck no.

[wunksta]

This line somehow assumes that lack of people having insurance affects the cost of others.

Doesn't it though? Uninsured people still get sick and go to the hospital, usually after it's gotten really bad. The NCBI estimates $35 - 42 billion a year to cover uninsured people. Basically, insured people are paying for their own insurance and are also covering the costs of uninsured.

Not sure if it's been mentioned but people opting to go without health insurance end up paying more out of pocket than they would have anyway. So there's not real reason to not be insured and making sure everyone is in the system helps distribute costs, and encourages preventative treatment.

[Paranoid Android]

BREAKING: Sen. @JohnCornyn tells @ThisWeekABC that last-minute provision enriching @SenBobCorker & other GOP lawmakers was added to the tax bill as part of an effort to “cobble together the votes we needed to get this bill passed” https://t.co/5spNBNb8Vl

So not really breaking anymore but I mean our fucking politicians. Votes on a bill, a provision that directly benefits him. He was elected to represent a party of one not the people of Tennessee.

[Kujako]

This line somehow assumes that lack of people having insurance affects the cost of others.

Yes... that's how insurance works. You need healthy people in the pools, to pay for the sick people.

[Poopymonster]

So not really breaking anymore but I mean our fucking politicians. Votes on a bill, a provision that directly benefits him. He was elected to represent a party of one not the people of Tennessee.

They know they may very well be SOL&JWF* next election cycle, so let's line our pockets before we run.

*Shit Outta Luck & Jolly Well Fucked.

[Orlong]

That is correct. But they'll drag them in on a gurney if they have to for this vote.

Kind of like what the Democrats did with Senator Byrd for the Obamacare vote