8.0 Paladin Hopes, Fantasies, Guesses?

[CptEgo]

Do you actually think Ret Paladins are not supposed to catch up to anyone or pose a threat to anyhting more nimble than a mountain?

Well I don't do PvP, but there are ways you could make it work..

[Gloriandus]

That doesn't make it less wrong. In my opinion, plate wearers should be slow moving and slow, hard hitting. I like to feel like I'm wearing plate, I actually think we should have a slower walking speed than casters.

That's RP jazz that simply wouldn't work in WoW; gameplay trumps lore/RP. Other games have weight systems and it's awful.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Well I don't do PvP, but there are ways you could make it work..

such as..?
Begging "pretty please" ?
playing against mouth and nose breathing kyboard turners?

[CptEgo]

such as..?
Begging "pretty please" ?
playing against mouth and nose breathing kyboard turners?

Such as movement restricting abilities, I said we should be slow, I didn't say we couldn't prevent others from being the same

[Morally Grey Storm]

Such as movement restricting abilities, I said we should be slow, I didn't say we couldn't prevent others from being the same

you do realise charge /blink/teleport/chi torpedoe/other shit don't care about slows, right?
you do realise our slow is unarguably the worst one in game, right?
Can you count 2+2 and realise where I'm coming from with this slight displeasure about Ret movement?

[CptEgo]

you do realise charge /blink/teleport/chi torpedoe/other shit don't care about slows, right?
you do realise our slow is unarguably the worst one in game, right?
Can you count 2+2 and realise where I'm coming from with this slight displeasure about Ret movement?

I didn't realise we were specifically talking about Ret, if its that bad I guess change is needed. Something will always suck about a spec in PvP, if it's not one thing it's another.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I didn't realise we were specifically talking about Ret, if its that bad I guess change is needed. Something will always suck about a spec in PvP, if it's not one thing it's another.

That's the trick, though: everything about Ret sucks in PvP this expansion.

[DrMcNinja]

That's the trick, though: everything about Ret sucks in PvP this expansion.

Well, PvP sucks this expansion in general.

[Deleted]

Well, PvP sucks this expansion in general.

true which is etra sad sicne they really tried this exapnsion with the stat templates and pvp talents and still it ended up falling a bi flat

[Nefarious Tea]

They said that it should be a Warrior 'thing', but allowed SPriests to keep it as well. Of course Paladins had HoW for longer than anyone but Warriors had an execute, but we got to lose ours. If HoW being problematic because it worked during Wings was a problem, they could have simply removed that, and left HoW in as a pure execute.

Warlocks are keeping Death's Embrace, too. So rude

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New ability for ret:

http://bfa.wowhead.com/spell=198036/templars-strike

It’s a ranged ability as well.

It's an utter garbage talent.

1. It has a cast time.
2. It replaces Crusader Strike.

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That doesn't make it less wrong. In my opinion, plate wearers should be slow moving and slow, hard hitting. I like to feel like I'm wearing plate, I actually think we should have a slower walking speed than casters.

A full suit of proper plate mail (not the ridiculous half-invincible tank plating that was used to protect the rider while jousting) only weighs about 40lbs and has better mobility than chainmail because it's forged to fit the specific person wearing it (if you're rich enough to be able to afford it, obviously it would be custom-made).

There is literally no excuse for poor plate mobility, especially in a setting with fucking MAGIC.

[Taeldorian]

Warlocks are keeping Death's Embrace, too. So rude

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It's an utter garbage talent.

1. It has a cast time.
2. It replaces Crusader Strike.

- - - Updated - - -



A full suit of proper plate mail (not the ridiculous half-invincible tank plating that was used to protect the rider while jousting) only weighs about 40lbs and has better mobility than chainmail because it's forged to fit the specific person wearing it (if you're rich enough to be able to afford it, obviously it would be custom-made).

There is literally no excuse for poor plate mobility, especially in a setting with fucking MAGIC.

It’s not garbage at all, read into it a little bit more.

Cast time is short and it’s spammable from what we can tell. Spammable ranged HP builder sounds pretty damn good if that’s how it actually works.

[Nefarious Tea]

It’s not garbage at all, read into it a little bit more.

Cast time is short and it’s spammable from what we can tell. Spammable ranged HP builder sounds pretty damn good if that’s how it actually works.

It still has a cast time. The only time you'd ever want to use a ranged ability like that over Crusader Strike is the only time you won't be able to use it, and that's while moving to either close the gap with the boss or running away from an ability.

[Grogplus]

He is right tho, paladins aren't suppose to jump around and run like crazy, with that being said paladins really need more movement especially in pvp. Pony for instance solves this problem even tho its kinda stupid, probably something like antorus teleportation heroic leap would work too, like it doesn't break the class fantasy and its a gap closer.

[Swampmoose]

That's the trick, though: everything about Ret sucks in PvP this expansion.

I was short a couple essence last week for a legendary so did the random BG 3 days in a row. Top damage each day, 1 total death across all 3 days, I don't even know how many KBs. I haven't tried arena but so far, nothing has sucked about PVP for me, in BGs at least.

[Felkor]

Well, in the new build, Judgement goes from 12s CD to 10s CD (debuff still lasting 8s).
It's not exactly a revolution, but if the mastery stays this way, this is a good thing. Only needing around 20% haste.

[Deleted]

I was short a couple essence last week for a legendary so did the random BG 3 days in a row. Top damage each day, 1 total death across all 3 days, I don't even know how many KBs. I haven't tried arena but so far, nothing has sucked about PVP for me, in BGs at least.

using random BG's to judge the pvp viability of a specc is a bit like using lfr to judge the mythic raiding viability of a specc.

ret is strong in random BG when you are facing random uncoordinated people but is struggling more in rated werte it is easily shutdownand/or kited by quite a few classes and lacks in offensive utilit compared to many otehr mele dps sicne if you can't get on to your target as a mele it doesnt mattter what you can do once you do.

[Swampmoose]

using random BG's to judge the pvp viability of a specc is a bit like using lfr to judge the mythic raiding viability of a specc.

ret is strong in random BG when you are facing random uncoordinated people but is struggling more in rated werte it is easily shutdownand/or kited by quite a few classes and lacks in offensive utilit compared to many otehr mele dps sicne if you can't get on to your target as a mele it doesnt mattter what you can do once you do.

Was just replying to a quote that "everything" sucks about Ret in PVP. I had no trouble dominating the few I joined so just arguing that the original statement isn't true. I can see how it can be a pain at higher levels but if you want to just go have a bit of random PVP fun, it seems perfectly fine and pretty fun.

[Sigxy]

You are covered in heavy plate armor, lack of mobility makes sense don't you think.

Really? Huh... well I guess it's "heavy" plate armour which I never understood why that was ever needed instead of just 'plate armour'. '.' Maybe that's the trick to Warriors having high mobility...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-bnM5SuQkI

That wheelie and front-flip jump in full plate armour~

But yeah, not a huge fan of the one with a casting time. The other one, though, looks fun if you wanna work on a Judgment build.

[Taeldorian]

It still has a cast time. The only time you'd ever want to use a ranged ability like that over Crusader Strike is the only time you won't be able to use it, and that's while moving to either close the gap with the boss or running away from an ability.

If it can generate more HoPo than CS per minute you’re going to be using the ranged ability especially if it’s a short cast timer and spammable.

In pve you really aren’t going to be moving that much, you minimize that as much as possible. Even if you do have to move, moving and then getting 2-3 casts off and then moving again will be possible with this ability whereas with CS if you have to move out of range you aren’t pressing shit.

Good example is portal keeper mythic, if you get caught in a bad spot by beams you have the ranged ability, when you move out for collapsing world you don’t have to just sit there you can start building HoPo right away which doesn’t happen with CS. However, CS could be better for Vari when there’s no moving to be done especially out of range.

So, more often than not it’ll be much more beneficial even for movement heavy fights if it stays the way it is because it will allow for much more uptime on your spenders/more HoPo generation if you have to move away from the boss which happens often due to mechanics.

[Deleted]

But yeah, not a huge fan of the one with a casting time. The other one, though, looks fun if you wanna work on a Judgment build.

I think the cast time one looks fun but not usefull and it could be semi usefull if we get a figh were mele has huge amounts of downtime it aslo does not have a CD unlike the other crusader strike variants so might make for more holy power gain over the alternatives.

can even see it being sued for a semi ranged playstyle if you pick up exectution sentence but overall it will propably be rather bad