Beta Key Giveaway Week 2: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #401
    Well, in the new build, Judgement goes from 12s CD to 10s CD (debuff still lasting 8s).
    It's not exactly a revolution, but if the mastery stays this way, this is a good thing. Only needing around 20% haste.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Swampmoose View Post
    I was short a couple essence last week for a legendary so did the random BG 3 days in a row. Top damage each day, 1 total death across all 3 days, I don't even know how many KBs. I haven't tried arena but so far, nothing has sucked about PVP for me, in BGs at least.
    using random BG's to judge the pvp viability of a specc is a bit like using lfr to judge the mythic raiding viability of a specc.

    ret is strong in random BG when you are facing random uncoordinated people but is struggling more in rated werte it is easily shutdownand/or kited by quite a few classes and lacks in offensive utilit compared to many otehr mele dps sicne if you can't get on to your target as a mele it doesnt mattter what you can do once you do.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by maaghen View Post
    using random BG's to judge the pvp viability of a specc is a bit like using lfr to judge the mythic raiding viability of a specc.

    ret is strong in random BG when you are facing random uncoordinated people but is struggling more in rated werte it is easily shutdownand/or kited by quite a few classes and lacks in offensive utilit compared to many otehr mele dps sicne if you can't get on to your target as a mele it doesnt mattter what you can do once you do.
    Was just replying to a quote that "everything" sucks about Ret in PVP. I had no trouble dominating the few I joined so just arguing that the original statement isn't true. I can see how it can be a pain at higher levels but if you want to just go have a bit of random PVP fun, it seems perfectly fine and pretty fun.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...t&n=Swampmoose

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoll
    Stop getting horny goo, judge on cd.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    You are covered in heavy plate armor, lack of mobility makes sense don't you think.
    Really? Huh... well I guess it's "heavy" plate armour which I never understood why that was ever needed instead of just 'plate armour'. '.' Maybe that's the trick to Warriors having high mobility...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-bnM5SuQkI

    That wheelie and front-flip jump in full plate armour~

    But yeah, not a huge fan of the one with a casting time. The other one, though, looks fun if you wanna work on a Judgment build.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Veredyn View Post
    It still has a cast time. The only time you'd ever want to use a ranged ability like that over Crusader Strike is the only time you won't be able to use it, and that's while moving to either close the gap with the boss or running away from an ability.
    If it can generate more HoPo than CS per minute you’re going to be using the ranged ability especially if it’s a short cast timer and spammable.

    In pve you really aren’t going to be moving that much, you minimize that as much as possible. Even if you do have to move, moving and then getting 2-3 casts off and then moving again will be possible with this ability whereas with CS if you have to move out of range you aren’t pressing shit.

    Good example is portal keeper mythic, if you get caught in a bad spot by beams you have the ranged ability, when you move out for collapsing world you don’t have to just sit there you can start building HoPo right away which doesn’t happen with CS. However, CS could be better for Vari when there’s no moving to be done especially out of range.

    So, more often than not it’ll be much more beneficial even for movement heavy fights if it stays the way it is because it will allow for much more uptime on your spenders/more HoPo generation if you have to move away from the boss which happens often due to mechanics.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2018-02-13 at 11:40 PM.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post

    But yeah, not a huge fan of the one with a casting time. The other one, though, looks fun if you wanna work on a Judgment build.
    I think the cast time one looks fun but not usefull and it could be semi usefull if we get a figh were mele has huge amounts of downtime it aslo does not have a CD unlike the other crusader strike variants so might make for more holy power gain over the alternatives.

    can even see it being sued for a semi ranged playstyle if you pick up exectution sentence but overall it will propably be rather bad

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Swampmoose View Post
    I was short a couple essence last week for a legendary so did the random BG 3 days in a row. Top damage each day, 1 total death across all 3 days, I don't even know how many KBs. I haven't tried arena but so far, nothing has sucked about PVP for me, in BGs at least.
    Oh well then.
    I guess a few unrated BGs are a surefire proof that REt is ok in PvP, then.
    Sure as sure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    If it can generate more HoPo than CS per minute you’re going to be using the ranged ability especially if it’s a short cast timer and spammable.
    Casting means no autoattacks
    no autoattacks means no BoWrath procs
    no BoWrath procs means no BoJ cd resets
    No BoJ cd resets means less HoPo and a slower rotation

    What an awesome synergy, right?

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Oh well then.
    I guess a few unrated BGs are a surefire proof that REt is ok in PvP, then.
    Sure as sure.
    Certainly proof enough for myself that your statement below is just more tears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    That's the trick, though: everything about Ret sucks in PvP this expansion.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...t&n=Swampmoose

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoll
    Stop getting horny goo, judge on cd.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Swampmoose View Post
    Certainly proof enough for myself that your statement below is just more tears.
    No.

    These are ten characters alright.

  10. #410
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grogplus View Post
    He is right tho, paladins aren't suppose to jump around and run like crazy, with that being said paladins really need more movement especially in pvp. Pony for instance solves this problem even tho its kinda stupid, probably something like antorus teleportation heroic leap would work too, like it doesn't break the class fantasy and its a gap closer.
    Well, in PvP the problem was having slow movement outside the horsey, having to use two GCDs to get movement speed (one to HoF to remove snares, one to use the horsey), having an awful snare that forced us into a single specific talent/PvP talent to get a (bad) autosnare, and having slow damage build up while in contact. The result was that Rets waddled after someone, finally made contact, got in a swing or two, and then lost contact again, probably never getting it back. The only things I could catch as Ret were healers that had to hard cast, the odd caster who had to hard cast (i.e. a badly talented Elemental), and DKs (and they have basically the same problem anyway). I'm a bad paladin healer, but did better as a healadin in arenas than as Ret. If you saw a Frost Mage when you entered an arena as Ret it was worth considering just quitting out - the loss was less frustrating that way.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Oh well then.
    I guess a few unrated BGs are a surefire proof that REt is ok in PvP, then.
    Sure as sure.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Casting means no autoattacks
    no autoattacks means no BoWrath procs
    no BoWrath procs means no BoJ cd resets
    No BoJ cd resets means less HoPo and a slower rotation

    What an awesome synergy, right?
    For a fight where you’re out of range a lot of the time the auto attacks won’t matter much. We might not even be picking the BoJ talent in BfA but either way on bosses like Portal keeper M you can have literally no downtime with the cast.

    It’s not hard to figure out. On fights where there’s heavy movement (Agramar M, portal keeper M, etc) that basically force you out of range, this talent will shine since you will be able to build HoPo and keep uptime even out of range.

    The cast time is also very very short. You’d miss about 1-2 auto attacks from the cast which is very worth it. Not only that but if you’re out of range there’s no auto attacking to begin with. It’s clear that this talent can be a huge benefit for fights with heavy movement or mechanics that force you out of range.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    For a fight where you’re out of range a lot of the time the auto attacks won’t matter much. We might not even be picking the BoJ talent in BfA but either way on bosses like Portal keeper M you can have literally no downtime with the cast.

    It’s not hard to figure out. On fights where there’s heavy movement (Agramar M, portal keeper M, etc) that basically force you out of range, this talent will shine since you will be able to build HoPo and keep uptime even out of range.

    The cast time is also very very short. You’d miss about 1-2 auto attacks from the cast which is very worth it. Not only that but if you’re out of range there’s no auto attacking to begin with. It’s clear that this talent can be a huge benefit for fights with heavy movement or mechanics that force you out of range.
    Iwonder if the casting talent will bring back swingtimers and a playstyle similar to the old vanilla arms warior slam builds were you would use the cast isntantly after an autoattak got off to avoid interupting your autos as much as possible.

    guess it remians to be seen how viable the talent is and if atoattak camage will be alrge enough to varrant delaying a cast for.

  13. #413
    Herald of the Titans Eurytos's Avatar
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    Warlock is moving up the reroll list real quick for me. Fury has moved down the list. Think I'm gonna spend some time on my DK this weekend, see if I enjoy that like I once did.

    *grumble grumble*
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rytos/advanced

    If there's one thing I'm not, it's in control.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    For a fight where you’re out of range a lot of the time the auto attacks won’t matter much. We might not even be picking the BoJ talent in BfA but either way on bosses like Portal keeper M you can have literally no downtime with the cast.

    It’s not hard to figure out. On fights where there’s heavy movement (Agramar M, portal keeper M, etc) that basically force you out of range, this talent will shine since you will be able to build HoPo and keep uptime even out of range.

    The cast time is also very very short. You’d miss about 1-2 auto attacks from the cast which is very worth it. Not only that but if you’re out of range there’s no auto attacking to begin with. It’s clear that this talent can be a huge benefit for fights with heavy movement or mechanics that force you out of range.
    I think you're exaggerating these "huge benefits" a bit. The time's you are talking about being forced out of range last seconds. Agrammar for example, when running away from him (or toward for that matter), you can still get in BoW, and Judgement. You would have time to cast maybe 1 of these before moving back in. You would have to be standing around for a significant amount of time with nothing to do except cast this ability for it to generate more HP than CS with a cast time.

    Either way, it's hard to put much thought into stuff like this that is just dug up/datamined, without making an official appearance somewhere. Who knows, maybe they were toying with bringing holy power back to holy. A cast time on a CS replacement for Ret just seems very out of place.


    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    No.

    These are ten characters alright.
    Wasn't a question.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...t&n=Swampmoose

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoll
    Stop getting horny goo, judge on cd.

  15. #415
    Of course it was not.
    Our dear Swampy never engages himself in actual discussion, much less when he’s expected to provide actual arguments.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Swampmoose View Post
    I think you're exaggerating these "huge benefits" a bit. The time's you are talking about being forced out of range last seconds. Agrammar for example, when running away from him (or toward for that matter), you can still get in BoW, and Judgement. You would have time to cast maybe 1 of these before moving back in. You would have to be standing around for a significant amount of time with nothing to do except cast this ability for it to generate more HP than CS with a cast time.

    Either way, it's hard to put much thought into stuff like this that is just dug up/datamined, without making an official appearance somewhere. Who knows, maybe they were toying with bringing holy power back to holy. A cast time on a CS replacement for Ret just seems very out of place.




    Wasn't a question.
    Has nothing to do with holy. They’re not going to bring back HP after seeing how well Holy works without it. They also said no major changes to anyone but a select few classes and that would be a very very major change. It’s for ret and it isn’t really that weird.

    The cast time is 1.5 seconds. You can get in at least 2-3 when you run out for collapsing world on portal keeper, or when you run out from aggramars aoe you can get around the same maybe a bit more. Considering these things happen more than once it’d be a decent benefit. It will be lower than 1.5 withhaste im assuming as well which would make it a really fast cast timer.

    However there’s still a lot we haven’t seen and not being able to test it out makes everything just guesswork. We’d really have to see how it works before deciding what’s best and what isn’t. It could be castable while moving but we wouldn’t know. So, need to see it first. Might not even make it to the live alpha build.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Karzerus View Post
    Why DID we lose Seals and Auras in the first place? Two mechanics that made our class unique and helped bring out the Paladin fantasy.

    While other classes had their unique identities strengthened, we lost ours. Does the class dev team just hate Paladins or are they completely clueless on them?
    Probably spent too much time on other classes and specs. They don't have as many people as they used to, unfortunately, which leads to some specs being underdeveloped (demonology, ret, probably others).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Grogplus View Post
    He is right tho, paladins aren't suppose to jump around and run like crazy, with that being said paladins really need more movement especially in pvp. Pony for instance solves this problem even tho its kinda stupid, probably something like antorus teleportation heroic leap would work too, like it doesn't break the class fantasy and its a gap closer.
    He is not right tho, paladins can have whatever the gameplay requires them to have to be comparable to others. They don't have to be the same, they just have to have something unique to them that is useful more often than not so they can compete. Even more so with stupid class auras because they're also competing with two other popular specs that blizzard gives more development time to (holy and prot). Long Arm of the Law was fine, Pursuit of Justice was fine, Speed of Light was objectively better than Divine Steed in almost every situation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felkor View Post
    Well, in the new build, Judgement goes from 12s CD to 10s CD (debuff still lasting 8s).
    It's not exactly a revolution, but if the mastery stays this way, this is a good thing. Only needing around 20% haste.
    Actually you'd need at least 25%.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Has nothing to do with holy. They’re not going to bring back HP after seeing how well Holy works without it. They also said no major changes to anyone but a select few classes and that would be a very very major change. It’s for ret and it isn’t really that weird.

    The cast time is 1.5 seconds. You can get in at least 2-3 when you run out for collapsing world on portal keeper, or when you run out from aggramars aoe you can get around the same maybe a bit more. Considering these things happen more than once it’d be a decent benefit. It will be lower than 1.5 withhaste im assuming as well which would make it a really fast cast timer.

    However there’s still a lot we haven’t seen and not being able to test it out makes everything just guesswork. We’d really have to see how it works before deciding what’s best and what isn’t. It could be castable while moving but we wouldn’t know. So, need to see it first. Might not even make it to the live alpha build.
    Except it's not castable while moving, so no you won't. Which was precisely the point I made yesterday but apparently you didn't understand.

    EDIT: How do I know? Every ability with a cast time that is castable while moving has that written in its tooltip. On melee classes such as DH Eye Beam doesn't say it, and can't be used while moving.
    Last edited by Veredyn; 2018-02-14 at 10:28 PM.
    Do not ask questions for which you do not want the answers.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Has nothing to do with holy. They’re not going to bring back HP after seeing how well Holy works without it. They also said no major changes to anyone but a select few classes and that would be a very very major change. It’s for ret and it isn’t really that weird.

    The cast time is 1.5 seconds. You can get in at least 2-3 when you run out for collapsing world on portal keeper, or when you run out from aggramars aoe you can get around the same maybe a bit more. Considering these things happen more than once it’d be a decent benefit. It will be lower than 1.5 withhaste im assuming as well which would make it a really fast cast timer.

    However there’s still a lot we haven’t seen and not being able to test it out makes everything just guesswork. We’d really have to see how it works before deciding what’s best and what isn’t. It could be castable while moving but we wouldn’t know. So, need to see it first. Might not even make it to the live alpha build.
    The point about toying with holy was just to say, it's not official so who knows why this even exists. It may have just been an idea on the drawing board and will never make it past that. It wasn't a comment about predictions on holy.

    Anyways, back to these hypothetical uses. Collapsing world doesn't deal damage until it explodes. Melee her on the way out. On Agrammar, I built 254 holy power on a quick normal clear yesterday. 99 were from Crusader Strike (110 from Blade, 45 from wake). I time it pretty well to get out of the aoe with only about a second or a little more left. I certainly wouldn't be casting 3, maybe 2 at most if timing is shitty. So even if I had to run out 10 times and cast 2 of them each time, you're talking about less than a 1 percent increase in Holy Power generation at the cost of putting a cast timer on one of your two primary HP generators. On this example, if your cast time was 1 second with haste, you would have added quite a bit of cast time to a melee rotation in exchange for building 20 holy power. CS is also one of the weakest hitting abilities. It was 8.xx% of damage for that fight. Added cast time is just time taken away from your hard hitters. The only way it would ever be feasible is if the damage was buffed drastically to make up for the loss elsewhere.

    I really don't see this making it anywhere, although until there's something official posted, it doesn't even exist to me. Interesting enough to discuss though.
    Last edited by Swampmoose; 2018-02-14 at 11:09 PM.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...t&n=Swampmoose

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoll
    Stop getting horny goo, judge on cd.

  20. #420
    My fantasy would be rolling back to WoD Ret...but I know that wont happen.
    It's like Blizzard telling me I can't have a steak because there aren't enough cows left, but then tell me I can have as many hamburgers as I could possibly eat. That is exactly their logic with Void Elves which literally leaves no excuse as to why there can't be High Elves.

    https://youtu.be/C2Sr-sadSk4 - Check it out, it's enlightening.

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